84 réponses à ce sujet

[Yallegro]

Either you misread my post, or you are unaware that respecialization has always been possible...

 

Aah, I see what you meant now.

 

When I suggest a build path in my thread I try and give the player as much as possible in the early levels.

 

Often that means saving some strong defensive options for later because skills like Rage of the Avvar, Walking Fortress, Stealth, I Was Never Here passive, they tend to be hidden behind a long path of useless passives. 

 

When I respec I actually mean to change the build, if you play in a way that Rage of the Avvar ups your survival I see no need to remove it later on, but styles differ.

 

It's pretty risky though, there's always that chance you go into a game and notice you are short one skill after respec

[Drasca]

I assume you're not getting Chilled Defense then.  The tooltip says that Chilled Defense provides damage resistance, so wouldn't it still provide a benefit even after all your stats hit 170?  Maybe you just don't feel like you need it.

 

Completely pointless when you're one-two shotting everything. Even if you somehow died, you'll self revive from the damage as I've stated MANY TIMES BEFORE.

[TheLeakestWink]

Okay I think I am missing something.  Strombringer.   I had been skipping it on all my agents who has this ability because it seems pretty weak.  300% damage to a random target close by every 15 seconds.   So what am I missing and how hard should I hit myself in the head for never having it?

 

I might be wrong, but IIRC the version that the Avvar has is only 150% weapon damage, while it's 300% for mages. This is likely to balance the weapon damage difference. I dislike Stormbringer early because it has a very large radius (25 meters), resulting in frequent aggo'ing of mobs next door, which would otherwise have stayed inactive until LoS were broken, etc. Divide and conquer is the path to success for most players. Drasca is advocating an approach that is likely to get you killed and very unlikely to get you self-rez unless your willpower and cunning are 200+ or you're playing under your appropriate difficulty.

[TheLeakestWink]

Aah, I see what you meant now.

 

When I suggest a build path in my thread I try and give the player as much as possible in the early levels.

 

Often that means saving some strong defensive options for later because skills like Rage of the Avvar, Walking Fortress, Stealth, I Was Never Here passive, they tend to be hidden behind a long path of useless passives. 

 

When I respec I actually mean to change the build, if you play in a way that Rage of the Avvar ups your survival I see no need to remove it later on, but styles differ.

 

It's pretty risky though, there's always that chance you go into a game and notice you are short one skill after respec

 

Give the player as much what as possible in the early levels? Offense or defense? My Avvar suggestion was not meant to be The One True Way to build the Avvar. Rather it was meant to illustrate the potential of respecialization to allow a character to be viable throughout his level progression for players who find him otherwise difficult to play at early levels. That key context seems to be overlooked by several responders in this thread (one of whose name starts with D and ends with rasca).

 

The reason respecialization becomes useful later on is that the number of points invested to get Rage of the Avvar and Chilled Defense prohibit also getting the best offensive skills (Lady's Wrath and Crushing Leap) along with the good passives necessary to support those skills.

 

If you can count to 20, you should never find yourself short a point after respecialization.

[Drasca]

I might be wrong, but IIRC the version that the Avvar has is only 150% weapon damage, while it's 300% for mages. This is likely to balance the weapon damage difference. 

 

Drasca is advocating an approach that is likely to get you killed and very unlikely to get you self-rez unless your willpower and cunning are 200+ or you're playing under your appropriate difficulty.

 

ROFL. I don't even have 200 cunning ROFL. I've been lazy about promoting cunning. I'm actually not the only one advocating Stormbringer here, as SB has done so too. Have you ever considered that you might just be absolutely wrong?

 

Survival requires a few things:

 

1. Situational awareness

--Including knowing how HC works and taking advantage of the KD timing with KM

2. Line of Sight

3. Heal on kill

4. Self rez via heal on kill

 

Chilled defense does jack squat for someone who's already fragile. I've already played that angle on low promotes.

 

You're still ignoring the fact that Stormbringer and the other abilities I've mentioned will self rez, even as the Avvar is going down, going tralala "I can't hear you"

 

 

the Avvar has is only 150% weapon damage, while it's 300% for mages. This is likely to balance the weapon damage difference.

 

These values are correct, and the base damage difference of 2H to Staves is usually around 4x as much, meaning the Avvar on gets 2x as much damage from stormbringer vs most other mages before any other damage modifiers are applied. Fire Smash and Elemental Atunement further boost these figures.

 

So snakebite gets 6k for stormbringer. Even if a new player did 1/6th this, and it is very possible for them to do much more, 1k is enough to finish off most weakened enemies in Perilous difficulty (doubling that for electric weak enemies like Brutes), as they range from 2k-4k for most mobs. Lady's wrath and Crushing leap dot damage are both still in effect as well for the area the Avvar lands. In those few seconds it takes to go down, it is very likely to kill something along the way, especially with Stormbringer finishing enemies off.

 

Those going into NM should already know what they're in for. I have no sympathy for those going into higher difficulties and rambo'ing without L2P or grinding enough that they wont' die. Either L2P or get carried (by promotes or teammates). Perilous sweet spot though? Eaaasymode for Avvar especially with Stormbringer

[Snakebite]

The great thing about the Avvar is that he isn't diminished as much as the other warriors for not having high crit chance.  He doesn't have Flow of Battle like the other warriors, so instead of missing out on cooldown reductions and extra damage, a player with low cunning playing the Avvar only misses out on damage.

[TheLeakestWink]

Survival requires a few things:

4. Self rez via heal on kill

 

Perhaps this will help you see the problem inherent in your approach.

 

 

Stormbringer... is enough to finish off most weakened enemies

 

 

You sure do expect a lot (precision) from a passive that has any enemy within a 25 meter radius to choose from.

[Drasca]

Perhaps this will help you see the problem inherent in your approach.

 

You sure do expect a lot (precision) from a passive that has any enemy within a 25 meter radius to choose from.

 

L2P. You're the one claiming you'll die. Seems like a personal problem, and not inherent to our build and playstyles. SB and I do just fine, and its not just stats. Heck, so does breakjohn and everyone else that's been playing this build.

 

You really are the weakest link here. Bad players want to hide behind the idea that because they don't have promotes that's the reason they're doing bad. They don't want to face the idea that they're the problem.

 

The great thing about the Avvar is that he isn't diminished as much as the other warriors for not having high crit chance.  He doesn't have Flow of Battle like the other warriors, so instead of missing out on cooldown reductions and extra damage, a player with low cunning playing the Avvar only misses out on damage.

 

Additinoally, he doesn't even really miss out on that much extra damage. Lady's Wrath, the microwave ability, doesn't even crit but is absolutely amazing. When Avvar first came out, I remember videos of people using only lady's wrath, and solo'ing with it too. Using no other ability these players fried everything.

[Snakebite]

Additinoally, he doesn't even really miss out on that much extra damage. Lady's Wrath, the microwave ability, doesn't even crit but is absolutely amazing. When Avvar first came out, I remember videos of people using only lady's wrath, and solo'ing with it too. Using no other ability these players fried everything.

 

I don't even know what to make of this post.

 

Firstly, Lady's Wrath does crit.

 

Secondly, I am the person whom you are referring to.  I made those videos mostly to show just how overpowered Lady's Wrath was (and for the most part still is).

 

[nanotm]

I've been taking stormbringer before upgrading ladys wrath since day 1 with the avar, you can sprint round the boss and have it "randomly" hit them for big damage, filing that it will one shot the majority of mooks on perilous and below so long as your using a lightening upgraded weapon with at least 300 base damage, you can still generate guard whilst running through the dying animation of that mook as well making it even more useful when ditching archers or spearmen, other than taking the first two upgrades in the mountains wrath tree I don't take anything else, half the time I've got to level 16 before bothering to waste  a skill point in hakons charge....

 

and when the avar came out I had maybe 15 points across the board (so five promotions in each tree) not hat I didn't promote a lot in the early days but that it was taking me up to 5 promotes for 1 to stick until a patch recently fixed whatever bug was causing them to reset every weekend event /

 

 

sure I now have over 70 across the board but I still play most of the character the same way for the last few months, I didn't like the avar because I found him weak on harder difficulties (seems to be a damage gate issue with him more so than any other char especially with darkspawn or qunari) I did get the valor sword yesterday and found he was much more survivable now he's able to do some decent damage (I hated the maul because it had lower damage than the sword and it would miss a lot more often)

 

most playstyle is about personal choice, I wouldn't advocate any one style over another other than making sure your armour is all upgraded and your wearing the strongest possible version until you have the promotions to wear whatever you like, unlike some people I don't mind carrying a weak teammate (even a complete newbie in starting armour and inquisition weapon) through perilous for hours on end, what I dislike is that they run ahead open doors and constantly fade out without appearing to learn anything no matter how many times they make the same mistake over and over ....

[TheLeakestWink]

I've been taking stormbringer before upgrading ladys wrath since day 1 with the avar, you can sprint round the boss and have it "randomly" hit them for big damage, filing that it will one shot the majority of mooks on perilous and below so long as your using a lightening upgraded weapon with at least 300 base damage

 

There are 11 such weapons in the game. What percentage of the player base do you think has at least one? If the Maul of the Dragon is the most likely one for a player to get first, do you recommend the Maul of the Dragon for the Avvar?

 

 

I didn't like the avar because I found him weak on harder difficulties

 

 

Perhaps a different approach to his build might have been helpful...

[lcneed]

There are 11 such weapons in the game. What percentage of the player base do you think has at least one? If the Maul of the Dragon is the most likely one for a player to get first, do you recommend the Maul of the Dragon for the Avvar?

 

 

Oh oh... what's wrong with Avvar using Maul of Dragon?  That's what I am using...  well the only good 2-hander I got pretty much.   And what's it about lightning upgrade?  Rune?   I thought Rune does nothing for ability only for auto attack which the Avvar and Reaver does not do?  I am so confuse...

[TheLeakestWink]

L2P. You're the one claiming you'll die. Seems like a personal problem, and not inherent to our build and playstyles. SB and I do just fine, and its not just stats. Heck, so does breakjohn and everyone else that's been playing this build.

 

You really are the weakest link here. Bad players want to hide behind the idea that because they don't have promotes that's the reason they're doing bad. They don't want to face the idea that they're the problem.

 

You almost read my name correctly. You might want to consult a physician or other medical specialist to evaluate you for dyslexia.

 

Your mistake is forgetting the audience. I'm not saying I will die, I'm saying the majority of players (who do not have the stats even I have, much less yours) will die if they take your approach. They will aggro large mobs rapidly, die, have a very small chance of self-rez (due to lower stats and weapon damage values), and even if they do manage to self-rez, will then go on to die again. Rinse and repeat.

 

Telling players who have difficulty with survival with a given character "L2P n00b" is both bad advice and victim-blaming. As I said before, you are missing the necessary context to understand what I am advocating. You and players of your time-level (I won't say caliber, since that has certain connotations) are not my target audience. Go ahead and play whatever build you fancy, just don't advocate that build as the only approach for all players all the time.

[nanotm]

I used skywatchers clever until I had the dragon sword in both cases I put a lightening run on them now I have valor with the lightening rune on it, all of which have higher damage than the maul and a much larger hitbox / less chance of generating a miss/zero damage I would suggest any weapon that isn't a maul for any two hand user

 

sure trying a different build might of been something to try had it not been so damn obvious the problem is bugs in the game not the build, take avar in drakescale armour with +16 con and +27 heal bonus upgrades into routine game, pop ladys wrath and walk through then entire game to zone 5 boss (because that kills everything you walk past) once at the boss ignore it until all the mooks are dead and then watch what happens, you find he gets hit way harder than any of the original lineup by the boss, the katari looses 1 guard block for every 5 hits once he has zero guard he takes 1 damge (the reaver doesn't have guard but also take 1 damage) the avar takes 150+ and looses chunks of guard for each hit.

 

getting the hakon sword with warhorn and blessed blades makes him live a lot longer but his damage still waves all over the place from 350>16k+ and he still takes damage way higher than other two handers do

[TheLeakestWink]

Oh oh... what's wrong with Avvar using Maul of Dragon?  That's what I am using...  well the only good 2-hander I got pretty much.   And what's it about lightning upgrade?  Rune?   I thought Rune does nothing for ability only for auto attack which the Avvar and Reaver does not do?  I am so confuse...

 

There is nothing inherently wrong with MotD, but Mauls, in comparison to Greatswords and Greataxes, suffer from a] difficult targeting and b] single target damage (unless tightly clustered) as an offset for their higher base damage, weapon level being equal. These downsides are reasons to favor Greatswords/Greataxes for the Katari and the Avvar. The reverse is true of the Reaver because of Dragon Rage, which changes the attack animation, thus eliminating both problems I listed. The MotD becomes the better choice in that single case because of its higher base damage (again, level being equal).

[TheLeakestWink]

you find he gets hit way harder than any of the original lineup by the boss, the katari looses 1 guard block for every 5 hits once he has zero guard he takes 1 damge (the reaver doesn't have guard but also take 1 damage) the avar takes 150+ and looses chunks of guard for each hit.

 

Seems to me what you're observing is the effect of Bear Mauls the Wolves on the Katari and Reaver, while you don't have it on the Avvar. That's likely because it's buried way down the Mountain-Heart (right-hand) skill tree, just before (you guessed it) Chilled Defense and Rage of the Avvar.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

Honestly, the OP here has a great concept in that changing build strategy in the middle of leveling a class can make things more fun.

While I personally am the "aim for the level 20 build" person, I can definitely see the appeal.

I might note that I burn almost all my resources on respecs because I hate promoting. Had they been available from the start, I would not even have the small number I have now.

Why I do not really promote is because I feel that high promotions changes my view on tactics whilst playing. I prefer to play knowing that my risks have the potential for lethal consequences even on Threatening. It leads me to play more tactically than I otherwise would if I had 200+ promotions in each stat. Not saying that other people can't do the opposite, just that I personally would be more reckless.

[nanotm]

that might be true if I ever used it, I take it on pala and Belinda because its in the centre before the skills I want to use but I don't take it on any of the others normally, there are better passives to grab that add to damage or constitution (def + hp) and unless something changed recently it doesn't add to your def rating and doesn't actually change the rate at which you get staggered or knocked down, making it rather pointless

[GreySpectre]

that might be true if I ever used it, I take it on pala and Belinda because its in the centre before the skills I want to use but I don't take it on any of the others normally, there are better passives to grab that add to damage or constitution (def + hp) and unless something changed recently it doesn't add to your def rating and doesn't actually change the rate at which you get staggered or knocked down, making it rather pointless

 

You take 1 damage from all attacks from behind. In other words, take it.

[TheLeakestWink]

that might be true if I ever used it, I take it on pala and Belinda because its in the centre before the skills I want to use but I don't take it on any of the others normally, there are better passives to grab that add to damage or constitution (def + hp) and unless something changed recently it doesn't add to your def rating and doesn't actually change the rate at which you get staggered or knocked down, making it rather pointless

 

To clarify what GreySpectre said above, since I'm guessing you weren't aware of this: Bear Mauls the Wolves is bugged, and reduces all flanking damage to 1 damage. That's why I said you might be seeing 1 damage specifically. And to reiterate what Grey said: you should always get it whenever possible for your build.

[nanotm]

I see 1 damage on routine /threatening from archers and swordsmen on vent /rt on almost all of my chars, actually its only a couple of chars that don't have this for me currently, the sarabas the avar the virtuoso and the duelist, I suspect that the reason for this is exactly the same as the reason why certain characters in me3mp were totally messed up as well, because rather than building them into the game from the start they decided to add them into the game after release and didn't just clone /reskin a current character so things don't link properly, one second your doing similar damage and taking similar damage and the next your getting one shot /doing next to nothing, even in a solo private match this happens, the problem is 100% damage gate bugs and it was exactly the same in me3 mp, as soon as you mess with the base code the game becomes glitchy, but its a hell of a lot faster and easier to parse in a totally new char than to redo everything from scratch just so you can add them especially if you already have a live game that needs constant tweaking.

 

hopefully bioware will learn from this and build in hidden blank characters from the start and then unhide them once the relevant dlc hits instead of repeating the same errors (with the same resultant problems as before), even the "new" weapons have bugs associated with them where they do the same damage as inquisition weapons if someone lag loads into an ongoing game because they aren't part of the base game code which defaults to "new char has inquisition weapon if no other weapon is selected", and theres probably a similar line about armour ("default to starting armour" so you cant be naked....)

 

its just bugs, it doesn't matter who you are or how you play there are bugs in the code and they arnt gong anywhere (it would be nice if that code line were changed to (set max damage /def to mitigate the problems of some guy using a vpn from outer Mongolia joining a game and causing all sorts of problems)

[Wavebend]

I see 1 damage on routine /threatening from archers and swordsmen on vent /rt on almost all of my chars, actually its only a couple of chars that don't have this for me currently, the sarabas the avar the virtuoso and the duelist, I suspect that the reason for this is exactly the same as the reason why certain characters in me3mp were totally messed up as well, because rather than building them into the game from the start they decided to add them into the game after release and didn't just clone /reskin a current character so things don't link properly, one second your doing similar damage and taking similar damage and the next your getting one shot /doing next to nothing, even in a solo private match this happens, the problem is 100% damage gate bugs and it was exactly the same in me3 mp, as soon as you mess with the base code the game becomes glitchy, but its a hell of a lot faster and easier to parse in a totally new char than to redo everything from scratch just so you can add them especially if you already have a live game that needs constant tweaking.

 

hopefully bioware will learn from this and build in hidden blank characters from the start and then unhide them once the relevant dlc hits instead of repeating the same errors (with the same resultant problems as before), even the "new" weapons have bugs associated with them where they do the same damage as inquisition weapons if someone lag loads into an ongoing game because they aren't part of the base game code which defaults to "new char has inquisition weapon if no other weapon is selected", and theres probably a similar line about armour ("default to starting armour" so you cant be naked....)

 

its just bugs, it doesn't matter who you are or how you play there are bugs in the code and they arnt gong anywhere (it would be nice if that code line were changed to (set max damage /def to mitigate the problems of some guy using a vpn from outer Mongolia joining a game and causing all sorts of problems)

 

that made no sense.

[Drasca]

Telling players who have difficulty with survival with a given character "L2P n00b"

 

I've got guides on where they can L2P

http://forum.bioware...rite-mp-builds/

 

Its like saying RTFM. If they don't, its they're own damned fault when I've presented how to play right in front of them. Of course, you ignore all the resources around you, and still try to pull the promote card, when I've clearly stated it is false.

 

In short, you're the weak one here. Everyone else is doing fine.

[Drasca]

Firstly, Lady's Wrath does crit.

 

Secondly, I am the person whom you are referring to.  I made those videos mostly to show just how overpowered Lady's Wrath was (and for the most part still is).

 

 

I didn't know about LW doing crit. Assumed it wasn't due to dot nature/beta experiences (before it was rebalanced). Did tests. Learned something new.

 

LW is indeed awesome. It still is pretty OP. There's plenty of example on how to use it (your video series being among them) but the weakest in here wants to ignore all that and declare Avvar is underpowered anyway when LW alone is OP for everyone.

[Parachromis]

The Avvar is one of my favorite warriors--him and my newfound liking of the Reaver. I found the Avvar impossible for me when he was first introduced. I died so easily I just quit playing him altogether. A lot of it was lack of decent gear and crap for CON promotes. Definitely L2P. I described a little on how to be successful with him earlier. I feel I'm 'over the hump' with him now, and I still struggle from time to time, but I don't die much and he's very playable for me and I enjoy playing him. Having said that, this is a character I would not recommend to new players in perilous. Is it promotes? Is it L2P? I dunno, but I used to die a lot as a Reaver. Now, I can solo Perilous--any faction--with a lvl 24 Dragon Maul--which is turning point for me in my gameplay.

 

Regardless, I side with the LW crowd. It's essential. It makes a huge difference in damage output. The only time I respec a char is if I'm trying something new and just don't like it. So for the Avvar: Crushing Leap + upgrade, LW + upgrade, defense on right tree (to BMTW), then fill in the upgrades for HC & KM and passives. Works pretty well for me.