33 Antworten in diesem Thema

[The_Mac23]

Which voiced Reaper did you all like the most? I know Sovereign had one of the most epic reveals in gaming history, but dayum I thought Harbinger was awesome. So wish we could have had the satisfaction of blowing it up!

[Redbelle]

It's not uncommon for a gamer to want to fight and defeat an antagonist who represents the opposing force in a game whose central premise revolves around settling conflicts.

 

Or, Good guy fights bad guy. Gamer's aptitude tips balance depending on difficulty setting.

 

It was perfect after all. Harbinger was the ship. The ship was a personality in and of itself and instead of just shooting Harbinger, the setup allowed for taking a Mako inside of him and destroying him from within. Or something along those lines of boarding and destroying. It's not like we haven't been inside a Reaper before. Would have been a more interesting setup than the final waves of enemies swarming the missile launchers that for sure.

 

Sadly, while a spectacle that would have pushed fan buttons while upping the ante of the drama provided in the narrative.... Harbinger got a pass from serving as a boss. Largely I suspect due to the development time being cut and Bioware being forced by EA to rush out a buggy product that they had to patch to bring it up to standard.

 

ME4 I suspect will serve as the new model of ME games under the development cycles EA imposes on Bioware. Only time will tell if EA will let their developers develop to satisfy the fans of Bioware and their products But EA have shown time and time again that they are only interested in pushing Microtransactions as they earn the most money for EA in the shortest amount of time. In which time the buyer will have moved onto something else.

 

Looking over the recent EA catalogue it's hard to find titles that deserve a spot in gamers personal gaming libraries. Bioware's approach before EA's acquisition could be an olive branch towards gamers who don't want homogenized game play and samey samey story and mechanics..... But only if EA stop pushing for profitable content and allow Bioware to push the development envelope of what Mass Effect could be. Not what it was, or is, right now.

 

I mean, the leaps and bounds of development between ME1 and 2 showed actual development and thinking in how the player interacted with the game. Then in ME3 innovation was stripped back to the bare essentials of what the game needed to be a Bioware shooter that bore the hallmarks of what EA shooters are.

 

Less EA in ME4 please. Make mine Bioware.

[themikefest]

Harbingers voice. My Shepard like hearing him talk smack to her. Too bad he couldn't have a bigger role in ME3

[The_Mac23]

Redbelle is so right. Fighting Harbinger from within would have been beyond amazing. Hearing his voice, seeing your own team going crazy because you know the indoctrination power would probably be more intense with the granddaddy of all Reapers. I was ready to watch it blow, especially after hearing how my attacks were useless, how he was limitless... After he blew up, I'd hoped my Shepard would simply utter, "This hurts you."

[MrFob]

Sovereign wins, no question there.

 

Sovereign was just cool. That first reveal in ME1 was the high point of the game and the way he demolished the fleet while hugging the tower was terrifying.

 

But the real reason why Sovereign wins is because he never said too much. He mostly let Saren do his dirty work and kept in the background. The only time he bothers to speak to us is actually by mistake (on Virmire, he first thinks you are Saren). And when we do talk to him, his words hint at a deeper meaning while Shepard's responses seem petty and inadequate. He was superior and aloof and that made him ominous and scary, even though he did loose in the end.

 

Harbinger on the other hand always felt like he tried too hard IMO. His constant over the top taunts were more silly than frightening and I feel like I didn't defeat him once but dozens of times (I know, it was always just his controlled minions but still, it feels like he just couldn't do any better. Worst part, in ME2, when you shoot his yellow puppet while he is speaking, the taunt stops in the middle of the sentence. It happened to me a lot with my infiltrator: Harby starts: "This will hurrrr...." - Oops, sorry Harby, already sniped you, better luck next time. Even his collector general is kinda cute, no wonder we started fondly calling him Harby.

All this doesn't exactly instill fear (or even respect) but rather the opposite. By the time he actually does get a fairly cool monologue (while Shepard flees from the collector base), I can't help but just think "blablabla, whatever".

Also, when we get to talk to him in Arrival, there, the difference to Sovereign again shows. Remember what I wrote above about our conversation with Sovereign? Well, here now, Shepard has the cool replies on how they are going to fight no matter what while Harby just prattles on about stuff we already know (yeah yeah, they are gonna arrive, we knew that already).

It doesn't help that Harby is basically removed from ME3 but IMO, that also didn't hurt the game at all.

 

So, easy win for Sovereign here, IMO, it's not even a contest.

[CYRAX470]

They're equal to me, I can't pick one over the other. They both get me so nostalgic back when the Reapers were evil machines, and not programmed tools. Though I feel they fulfill two types of evil.

Sovereign is the unknowable ancient threat that is basically a talking hurricane. While Harbinger is the more "personal villain". You challenged him throughout Mass Effect 2, and he constantly taunted you, it was a real hero/villain set up, and it was building to a shown down. Then....well you know. The rest is history.

I love those 2 characters so much, it's impossible for me to choose.

[Flaine1996]

Throwing in my 2 cents, Sovereign was a bad assl him taking on the citadel alone? Damn... that was just pure epicness in Mass effect 1 and it took alot of damned ships to take him out... Harbringer on the other hand with his constant trash talk made me want to kill him I didnt even wait for him to posses one of the collectors i was willing to kill them all ==.== just so he could shut up... though i did feel pity for him when he does finally get freed so kudos to BW for making me feel hatred at one moment and pity the next...  as for ME3? it was nice how the atmosphere truly showed you the destruction the reapers caused but the last 10 minutes of the end... blew all the scary, epic and bad ass feels to the reapers out the water... so ehhhh.....

[SwobyJ]

Sovereign.

 

But Harbinger would have been quite awesome if followed up more.

 

Catalyst Refuse voice is great too.

 

SO BE IT.

[CYRAX470]

Sovereign.

 

But Harbinger would have been quite awesome if followed up more.

 

Catalyst Refuse voice is great too.

 

SO BE IT.

 

You mean Harbinger's refuse voice? 

 

I always thought that was so odd. How suddenly this thing sounds all dark and scary.

[FlyingSquirrel]

I'd say Harbinger. He had what I still think was the best line of any Reaper: "Human, you have changed nothing. Your species has the attention of those infinitely your greater. That which you know as Reapers are your salvation through destruction." Whereas Sovereign was all about "we're superior, you're gonna die, so go away," Harbinger had that aloof attitude along with at least a hint that there was a purpose to all this beyond simple malice or eagerness for conflict and destruction. Plus, the Sovereign scene, as great as it is in general, includes that annoying "machines can be broken" line from Shepard (unless you do what I do and spacebar it so Sovereign interrupts before Shepard can say it!). Shepard isn't railroaded into an "AIs aren't really alive" stance in the rest of the game so I'm not sure why it was written as a default line.

[CYRAX470]

Hm, I don't know. I felt like Harbinger and Sovereign shared the whole "we're superior, you're gonna die, go away" attitude. Especially with Harbinger calling the harvesting process with the Collectors as "ascension" and saying "your leaders will beg to serve us". And Sovereign saying "organic life is nothing but genetic mutation, an accident". I always saw both of their lines as Reapers believing that being harvested and turned into a grotesque machine was a better way of life.

Organic life is weak and feable, so we shall turn you into one of us because it's better.

[Spacepunk01]

But the real reason why Sovereign wins is because he never said too much. He mostly let Saren do his dirty work and kept in the background. The only time he bothers to speak to us is actually by mistake (on Virmire, he first thinks you are Saren). And when we do talk to him, his words hint at a deeper meaning while Shepard's responses seem petty and inadequate. He was superior and aloof and that made him ominous and scary, even though he did loose in the end.

 

I like this. I had the same reaction to the reveal on Virmire. Shepard and his crew had no idea what they were dealing with. Shepard's respons was petty and had no real meaning to Sovereign. We're just primitive creatures living within a restrictive paradigm. This is kind of like living in flatland, where the inhabitants can't even imagine a third dimension, simply because they're two-dimensional beings living within a two-dimensional reality. The Reapers have a vantage point that we cannot grasp - not even imagine. This is why they appear evil to us, because we cannot see the bigger picture.

[iM3GTR]

I liked the 'machines can be broken' line.

[Treacherous J Slither]

Harbinger of cour---ASSUMING CONTROL

THE FORCES OF THE UNIVERSE BEND TO ME

[Kingsc45]

Harbinger just reminds me that I didn't have a final boss fight in ME3 lol.

[Treacherous J Slither]

Harbinger just reminds me that I didn't have a final boss fight in ME3 lol.

So true.

What a stoopet way to end the series.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Worth another look.

 

[The Real Pearl #2]

Harbringer for sure. He is intimidating but he won't shoooot up

He's a big goof out of context. Too bad marauder shields took his place as final boss. 

[KaiserShep]

The Rannoch destroyer is better than both of those clowns. 

[The Real Pearl #2]

The Rannoch destroyer is better than both of those clowns. 

Too bad he's dead, Those poor geth being controlled by him

[Gago]

They are pretty equal imo. Pity ME3 didn't have any Harby time at all. 

[DebatableBubble]

Both.

[Treacherous J Slither]

What was Sovereign's mission anyway? To open up the Citadel relay? Really?

Am I the only one who found this to be wholly unnecessary?

They didn't have to send him alone. It was pointless. They should have all come together at once. They would have been unstoppable.

Also, why do they leave after each cycle? Why not stick around and observe in person? It's not like they would be in any danger or anything.

[SwobyJ]

What was Sovereign's mission anyway? To open up the Citadel relay? Really?

Am I the only one who found this to be wholly unnecessary?

They didn't have to send him alone. It was pointless. They should have all come together at once. They would have been unstoppable.

Also, why do they leave after each cycle? Why not stick around and observe in person? It's not like they would be in any danger or anything.

 

I still like to imagine its all a manipulation and the Catalyst entity is still Sovereign, still manipulating us (IT).

 

Wouldn't take much to fool Shep.

[Natureguy85]

Sovereign wins, no question there.

 

Sovereign was just cool. That first reveal in ME1 was the high point of the game and the way he demolished the fleet while hugging the tower was terrifying.

 

But the real reason why Sovereign wins is because he never said too much. He mostly let Saren do his dirty work and kept in the background. The only time he bothers to speak to us is actually by mistake (on Virmire, he first thinks you are Saren). And when we do talk to him, his words hint at a deeper meaning while Shepard's responses seem petty and inadequate. He was superior and aloof and that made him ominous and scary, even though he did loose in the end.

 

Harbinger on the other hand always felt like he tried too hard IMO. His constant over the top taunts were more silly than frightening and I feel like I didn't defeat him once but dozens of times (I know, it was always just his controlled minions but still, it feels like he just couldn't do any better. Worst part, in ME2, when you shoot his yellow puppet while he is speaking, the taunt stops in the middle of the sentence. It happened to me a lot with my infiltrator: Harby starts: "This will hurrrr...." - Oops, sorry Harby, already sniped you, better luck next time. Even his collector general is kinda cute, no wonder we started fondly calling him Harby.

All this doesn't exactly instill fear (or even respect) but rather the opposite. By the time he actually does get a fairly cool monologue (while Shepard flees from the collector base), I can't help but just think "blablabla, whatever".

Also, when we get to talk to him in Arrival, there, the difference to Sovereign again shows. Remember what I wrote above about our conversation with Sovereign? Well, here now, Shepard has the cool replies on how they are going to fight no matter what while Harby just prattles on about stuff we already know (yeah yeah, they are gonna arrive, we knew that already).

It doesn't help that Harby is basically removed from ME3 but IMO, that also didn't hurt the game at all.

 

So, easy win for Sovereign here, IMO, it's not even a contest.

 

 

Throwing in my 2 cents, Sovereign was a bad assl him taking on the citadel alone? Damn... that was just pure epicness in Mass effect 1 and it took alot of damned ships to take him out... Harbringer on the other hand with his constant trash talk made me want to kill him I didnt even wait for him to posses one of the collectors i was willing to kill them all ==.== just so he could shut up... though i did feel pity for him when he does finally get freed so kudos to BW for making me feel hatred at one moment and pity the next...  as for ME3? it was nice how the atmosphere truly showed you the destruction the reapers caused but the last 10 minutes of the end... blew all the scary, epic and bad ass feels to the reapers out the water... so ehhhh.....

 

This is so true. Also, Sovereign was leaving when he first appeared. We didn't really get to know what the heck it was, but we knew it was dangerous. When we talked to him, I loved Sovereign's arrogance and utter disdain for Shepard and Organics generally. When he attacks the Citadel, he just rams the Citadel ships in his way, showing how powerful his hull is. How can we hope to damage something like that? It's only in a later cutscene that we see Sovereign actually use a weapon and it annihilates a ship in one hit. We only win because of that weird feedback problem (too bad that never came up again.) and even though Shepard resolves to beat the Reapers, we have no idea how that will be accomplished. ME2 has a lot to do and a lot of room to do it.

 

I totally get the idea of making Harbinger a more personal villain. Maybe it could have worked. However, Harbinger was damaged by several things. The Harbinger collector was visible right away on Horizon, so there was no impact the first time you saw him "assume control" on the battlefield. When you did fight him, he's not that much more dangerous than a normal collector. He's really only a threat because he can knock you out of cover for all of his mooks to gun you down. Then we kill him over and over and over (again, are we giving Harbinger a headache each time?) You can't hope to harm Sovereign but you beat Harbinger one hundred times.

 

 

 

I'd say Harbinger. He had what I still think was the best line of any Reaper: "Human, you have changed nothing. Your species has the attention of those infinitely your greater. That which you know as Reapers are your salvation through destruction." Whereas Sovereign was all about "we're superior, you're gonna die, so go away," Harbinger had that aloof attitude along with at least a hint that there was a purpose to all this beyond simple malice or eagerness for conflict and destruction. Plus, the Sovereign scene, as great as it is in general, includes that annoying "machines can be broken" line from Shepard (unless you do what I do and spacebar it so Sovereign interrupts before Shepard can say it!). Shepard isn't railroaded into an "AIs aren't really alive" stance in the rest of the game so I'm not sure why it was written as a default line.

 

I do like those first two lines but I never liked the "salvation" idea. Sovereign had utter disdain for Organics. It wasn't just that Reapers were better, it's that everything else was nothing. I like Shepard's machines can be broken line because it fits with what he knows at the time. He hasn't seen the Reaper's true power. Sovereign is beyond Shepard's comprehension and I love Sovereign's response, correctly identifying Shepard's line as "confidence born of ignorance."

 

As for the "not really alive", that's really because the "AI can be alive" idea was pushed more in ME2, but in-universe you could chalk it up to Shepard learning from his experiences with EDI and possibly Legion.

 

Holy crap; we found actual character development for Shepard!

 

 

I liked the 'machines can be broken' line.

 

But, as Sovereign says, it is "Confidence born of ignorance."

 

 

What was Sovereign's mission anyway? To open up the Citadel relay? Really?

Am I the only one who found this to be wholly unnecessary?

They didn't have to send him alone. It was pointless. They should have all come together at once. They would have been unstoppable.

Also, why do they leave after each cycle? Why not stick around and observe in person? It's not like they would be in any danger or anything.

 

At the time it didn't seem unnecessary, particularly if you consider Vigil's ideas. The Reapers sleep out in Dark Space to preserve energy or do what they do with the technology they collect and be safe from discovery in that state. Based on what we knew at the time, coming from Dark Space would have taken a very long time without a Relay, not merely 2 and a half years.