73 odpowiedzi w tym temacie

[The_Mac23]

Which do you feel is more fitting and why? How do you think Warrior/Rogue Hawke would be with Warden Loghain if the two were to cross paths?

[vertigomez]

Which do you feel is more fitting and why? How do you think Warrior/Rogue Hawke would be with Warden Loghain if the two were to cross paths?

Both work. I prefer mage Hawke from a story perspective, but rogue/warrior Hawke's connection to Ostagar is interesting too.

About Hawke and Loghain,

Spoiler

They can, actually, in Inquisition... doesn't seem to be a lot of enmity there though. Bigger fish to fry and all that.

[Qun00]

The mage/templar conflict feels much more personal if you need to protect your little sister than having it be all about you. Survival and sympathy for strangers isn't as compelling.

Of course, one could argue that every people should have its own heroes. If Hawke is to become a symbol for the mages, maybe he should be one of them.

[The_Mac23]

I just wish he would have been our protagonist in Inquisition. Would have made it so much better

[Jaison1986]

The mage/templar conflict feels much more personal if you need to protect your little sister than having it be all about you. Survival and sympathy for strangers isn't as compelling.

Of course, one could argue that every people should have its own heroes. If Hawke is to become a symbol for the mages, maybe he should be one of them.

 

But I think it delivers a stronger statement to the poeple of Thedas that a non mage, of all people, stood for the mages.

 

Personally, I prefer warrior/rogue Hawke (especially rogue Hawke, as the overall story has a roguish vibe to it), while mage Hawke get's away with too much for me to buy it. I mean, at least Bethany get's caugh. That was more realistic.

[straykat]

I like rogue Hawke the most. Kirkwall is a rogue's city, to me. And it's main conflict with both Qunari and the Temp/Mage stuff later is a clash with idealists. Rogues, as an archetype, represent uncertainty. The antithesis of the Qun. And in the end, pretty much where Hawke often ends up between mages and templars as well.

 

After the Keep came out though, I don't like repeating classes in each game. So I switch things up a lot and see more of the strengths in different ways to play. I just think the firsthand rogue experience was the best one.

[AFA]

Since I plan on beating DA2 a third time, and DAI a second time, I'm not sure who my canon Hawke will be.

 

First was a mage, second was a rogue. My HOF is a male human mage, as is my Quis. I threw the rogue in there so the three protagonists weren't clones to an extent.

 

Protecting Bethany probably does make for a more compelling story, and honestly seems to fit Hawke's everyman persona better. 

 

Something to mull over.

[Qun00]

I like rogue Hawke the most. Kirkwall is a rogue's city, to me. And it's main conflict with both Qunari and the Temp/Mage stuff later is a clash with idealists. Rogues, as an archetype, represent uncertainty. The antithesis of the Qun. And in the end, pretty much where Hawke often ends up between mages and templars as well.

After the Keep came out though, I don't like repeating classes in each game. So I switch things up a lot and see more of the strengths in different ways to play. I just think the firsthand rogue experience was the best one.

What bothers me about playing a rogue is that non-mage Hawke supposedly was in the army at Ostagar. And you never see a soldier swinging daggers around.

Okay, Duncan did have daggers of his own but his primary weapon was a greatsword.

Then you might say "you could use a bow" but my canon Warden already is an archer. I don't do repetition.

[congokong]

This is a question I've thought about when considering which Hawke to import as I'm attached to two very different characters; the witty rogue and aggressive mage Hawke.

 

What I like about rogue Hawke is that Bethany actually survived Lothering. One of the most appealing things story-wise was the bond between the Hawke sisters, and Bethany's sad fate of being taken away to join the Wardens. Throughout all of Act 1 those two were inseperable until that moment in the Deep Roads, and seeing Hawke emerge without Bethany felt like there was a void. Act 2 felt strange at first without Bethany, and seeing Bethany again during the Qunari attack brought back memories. Finally, they were briefly reunited in Act 3 during Legacy and The Last Straw, but they had different lives now. That's sad to me. I could picture rogue Hawke during those years in Kirkwall after the Deep Roads jumping rooftops at night, wondering where her sister was, and wishing she was there.

 

...None of that applies to Carver, who you're stuck with as a mage. Yes, yes, Carver has reasons for being whiny with a major inferiority complex, but he's not likable to me at all so shut up. Losing him to the Wardens provided barely any feeling, besides a way of slipping the Grey Wardens into the story, because the two didn't have a strong bond. Killing him was the best fate story-wise IMO for a tragic Hawke who becomes the last survivor of the family. Templar Carver complety removes the tragic element and simply adds to the rivalry; reinforcing Carver's dick nature.

 

That being said, I do feel the story nudges you towards being a mage, considering a big theme is the magic issue and coming from a family of apostates. I also happen to prefer playing mages. It just feels right to me. The above recites my dilemma with it, is all.

[straykat]

What bothers me about playing a rogue is that non-mage Hawke supposedly was in the army at Ostagar. And you never see a soldier swinging daggers around.

Okay, Duncan did have daggers of his own but his primary weapon was a greatsword.

Then you might say "you could use a bow" but my canon Warden already is an archer. I don't do repetition.

 

Some of those Ash Warriors might've been rogues... In retrospect at least, the dual wielders and light armor peeps are rogues.

 

Of course, they might have been warriors, technically speaking.. since DAO allowed that back then.

 

That said, I could imagine Hawke and other rogues just being volunteers and conscripts. Just patriotic Fereldens doing what they could.

[vertigomez]

This is a question I've thought about when considering which Hawke to import as I'm attached to two very different characters; the witty rogue and aggressive mage Hawke.
 
What I like about rogue Hawke is that Bethany actually survived Lothering. One of the most appealing things story-wise was the bond between the Hawke sisters, and Bethany's sad fate of being taken away to join the Wardens. Throughout all of Act 1 those two were inseperable until that moment in the Deep Roads, and seeing Hawke emerge without Bethany felt like there was a void. Act 2 felt strange at first without Bethany, and seeing Bethany again during the Qunari attack brought back memories. Finally, they were briefly reunited in Act 3 during Legacy and The Last Straw, but they had different lives now. That's sad to me. I could picture rogue Hawke during those years in Kirkwall after the Deep Roads jumping rooftops at night, wondering where her sister was, and wishing she was there.
 
...None of that applies to Carver, who you're stuck with as a mage. Yes, yes, Carver has reasons for being whiny with a major inferiority complex, but he's not likable to me at all so shut up. Losing him to the Wardens provided barely any feeling, besides a way of slipping the Grey Wardens into the story, because the two didn't have a strong bond. Killing him was the best fate story-wise IMO for a tragic Hawke who becomes the last survivor of the family. Templar Carver complety removes the tragic element and simply adds to the rivalry; reinforcing Carver's dick nature.
 
That being said, I do feel the story nudges you towards being a mage, considering a big theme is the magic issue and coming from a family of apostates. I also happen to prefer playing mages. It just feels right to me. The above recites my dilemma with it, is all.

Ha! I have the opposite problem. I love Carver, and with Bethany I'm conflicted because having her in the Wardens is more interesting and tragic (and gives Hawke a reason to go to Weisshaupt...) but having her in the Circle gives a non-mage Hawke a compelling reason to side with the mages at the end, which IMO they need especially if their LI is not a mage.

So I've played a lot of mage Hawkes but I struggle with the rogue/warrior storyline, mostly because I have no idea what to do with Bethany.

[straykat]

I like her in the Circle, personally. I can still play my non-commital/half-assed Hawke rogue, but kind of pull through for the mages in the end, mostly because of her. And still not be all that happy about it..

[congokong]

Ha! I have the opposite problem. I love Carver, and with Bethany I'm conflicted because having her in the Wardens is more interesting and tragic (and gives Hawke a reason to go to Weisshaupt...) but having her in the Circle gives a non-mage Hawke a compelling reason to side with the mages at the end, which IMO they need especially if their LI is not a mage.

So I've played a lot of mage Hawkes but I struggle with the rogue/warrior storyline, mostly because I have no idea what to do with Bethany.

I didn't realize it was a difficult decison for people to choose whether or not to murder the Circle mages.

[congokong]

I like her in the Circle, personally. I can still play my non-commital/half-assed Hawke rogue, but kind of pull through for the mages in the end, mostly because of her. And still not be all that happy about it..

I've never put her in the Circle.

 

1. It's not tragic enough.

2. It feels too much like a character write-off.

3. It makes Hawke look like a helpless failure for just letting it happen without a fight.

 

 

But my reasons for my rogue Hawke siding with the mages are very similar to yours. Whenever possible she never took a position on mage freedom (like Varric), but when forced to choose she chose not to help murder the mages; partially because of her mage family history. Meredith threatening her made the choice easier.

[straykat]

I've never put her in the Circle.

 

1. It's not tragic enough.

2. It feels too much like a character write-off.

3. It makes Hawke look like a helpless failure for just letting it happen without a fight.

 

I'm not exactly there for tragedy though. The game is more of a fun/funny experience to me. Whatever tragic stuff exists is enough (Merethari, Leandra, romancing Anders and killing him).

 

As for Hawke letting it happen, she's not some revolutionary badass (to me). It only boils to that gradually.

[congokong]

I'm not exactly there for tragedy though. The game is more of a fun/funny experience to me. Whatever tragic stuff exists is enough (Merethari, Leandra, romancing Anders and killing him).

 

As for Hawke letting it happen, she's not some revolutionary badass (to me). It only boils to that gradually.

Revolutionary badass? I'm talking about fighting the templars trying to take her sister away; even if she dies in the process.

[straykat]

Revolutionary badass? I'm talking about fighting the templars trying to take her sister away; even if she dies in the process.

 

That's revolutionary. Right in the end of the first act. It's a bit premature from my sarcastic rogue's point of view.

 

If you see it differently, that's cool.. but I see Kirkwall as kind of a crucible for this fairly down to earth immigrant character.. she has to go through a lot to finally make decisions like that. It's what Anders finally forces in the end.

[straykat]

It's funny that we dispute this..

 

And yet people say Hawke offered less room for roleplay. I think we both disagree on that.

[congokong]

That's revolutionary. Right in the end of the first act. It's a bit premature from my sarcastic rogue's point of view.

 

If you see it differently, that's cool.. but I see Kirkwall as kind of a crucible for this fairly down to earth immigrant character.. she has to go through a lot to finally make decisions like that. It's what Anders finally forces in the end.

I think you're misunderstanding. I'm not saying Hawke should be like, "Mages should be free! I'll kill anyone to see it happen!" It's simply being extremely protective of family regardless of the view on mages. Many won't give their family willingly to the Circle. Ex: Thrask, Meredith, Templar Carver, etc. People often forgoe their principles when push comes to shove.

[straykat]

I think you're misunderstanding. I'm not saying Hawke should be like, "Mages should be free! I'll kill anyone to see it happen!" It's simply being extremely protective of family regardless of the view on mages. Many won't give their family willingly to the Circle. Ex: Thrask, Meredith, Templar Carver, etc. People often forgoe their principles when push comes to shove.

 

Well, I think it's in character at least for my rogue. They're not very direct and recognize futility when they see it. Perhaps it'd be more in character if my warrior bitchslapped Cullen.

[congokong]

Well, I think it's in character at least for my rogue. They're not very direct and recognize futility when they see it. Perhaps it'd be more in character if my warrior bitchslapped Cullen.

Sure, perhaps your Hawke wouldn't fight to the death for Bethany's freedom. Mine would, and I don't like when the game just makes you watch as the templars steal your sister without even a struggle.

[straykat]

Sure, perhaps your Hawke wouldn't fight to the death for Bethany's freedom. Mine would, and I don't like when the game just makes you watch as the templars steal your sister without even a struggle.

 

I say just roll with it. Or play a mage.. at least you can express something more combative with Carver.

 

The only character who loses out in this case is the aggressive non-mage. Which is entirely different than what I played. I wasn't talking about anything similar to it. So I don't know. Sorry.

[Jaison1986]

I've never put her in the Circle.

 

1. It's not tragic enough.

2. It feels too much like a character write-off.

3. It makes Hawke look like a helpless failure for just letting it happen without a fight.

 

 

But my reasons for my rogue Hawke siding with the mages are very similar to yours. Whenever possible she never took a position on mage freedom (like Varric), but when forced to choose she chose not to help murder the mages; partially because of her mage family history. Meredith threatening her made the choice easier.

 

1. Not every story needs tragedy, you know? And the Hawke family suffer enough as it is. At least one good (or at least not entirely awful) thing can happen from time to time.

2. circle mage or warden, it's an write-off regardless. They leave in virtually the same capacity.

3. Well, not our fault the game was written that way. You can take the aggressive option, but Bethany stops you before you can attack Cullen. That's the most we can get.

 

Besides, you can get one or two interesting moments if Bethany is a circle mage. Like in act 3. If you take a aggressive option refusing to help Meredith to hunt down the 3 mages, Meredith will blackmail Hawke by threatening Bethany. That was an clever nod from the writers in my opinion.

[congokong]

1. Not every story needs tragedy, you know? And the Hawke family suffer enough as it is. At least one good (or at least not entirely awful) thing can happen from time to time.

2. circle mage or warden, it's an write-off regardless. They leave in virtually the same capacity.

3. Well, not our fault the game was written that way. You can take the aggressive option, but Bethany stops you before you can attack Cullen. That's the most we can get.

 

Besides, you can get one or two interesting moments if Bethany is a circle mage. Like in act 3. If you take a aggressive option refusing to help Meredith to hunt down the 3 mages, Meredith will blackmail Hawke by threatening Bethany. That was an clever nod from the writers in my opinion.

1. I want tragedy in it.

2. I feel the write-off is better as a warden and not as blatantly obvious. The sibling dying in the Deep Roads is also a poorly done write-off. You don't even see them get infected.

3. And so I'll avoid that poor scenario if I have the option. And I do.

[congokong]

I say just roll with it. Or play a mage.. at least you can express something more combative with Carver.

The other options are to make her a warden, or kill her off in the Deep Roads. I chose the former. And while I like playing a mage, I much prefer Bethany's friendship over Carver's rivalry; as mentioned already in this thread.