73 respuestas en este tema

[Jaison1986]

1. I want tragedy in it.

2. I feel the write-off is better as a warden and not as blatantly obvious. The sibling dying in the Deep Roads is also a poorly done write-off. You don't even see them get infected.

3. And so I'll avoid that poor scenario if I have the option. And I do.

 

That sounds petty in my opinion. For the sake of drama, you destroy Bethany's life. It's like having your character going into a village and be like "oh, look at that family there. They are way too happy. Let me rectify that. Killing the father should help spice things up".

[straykat]

1. I want tragedy in it.

2. I feel the write-off is better as a warden and not as blatantly obvious. The sibling dying in the Deep Roads is also a poorly done write-off. You don't even see them get infected.

3. And so I'll avoid that poor scenario if I have the option. And I do.

 

I don't mind tragedy, but I'm not going to choose it arbritrarily or anything. The game already has tragic moments without my help. I don't remember what I first picked, but I don't think it was the Warden for me. I don't even remember liking Anders at first, enough to have him in the Deep Roads.

 

In retrospect, the Warden choice is cool though. I never liked Wardens, and she illustrated why pretty well.

[congokong]

That sounds petty in my opinion. For the sake of drama, you destroy Bethany's life. It's like having your character going into a village and be like "oh, look at that family there. They are way too happy. Let me rectify that. Killing the father should help spice things up".

I think it's pettier for you to tell me how to play. "For the sake of drama, you destroy Bethany's life." You are aware this is a game, right? Bethany isn't actually real.

 

I'm not one of those many players who sees every potential bad outcome for a character as merely an obstace to overcome; like the many Mass Effect players who never let a character die if they can help it. Implementing tragedy makes a good story; not necessarily always including over-the-top scenarios like your example.

[congokong]

I don't mind tragedy, but I'm not going to choose it arbritrarily or anything. The game already has tragic moments without my help. I don't remember what I first picked, but I don't think it was the Warden for me. I don't even remember liking Anders at first, enough to have him in the Deep Roads.

 

In retrospect, the Warden choice is cool though. I never liked Wardens, and she illustrated why pretty well.

And that's fine. I'm certainly not going to tell you how to play your game ...unlike many others I've encountered on these forums. I'm merely giving the reasoning for my decisions.

[vertigomez]

I didn't realize it was a difficult decison for people to choose whether or not to murder the Circle mages.

It's not for me, but it might be for Hawke.

[straykat]

I think it's pettier for you to tell me how to play. "For the sake of drama, you destroy Bethany's life." You are aware this is a game, right? Bethany isn't actually real.

 

I'm not one of those many players who sees every potential bad outcome for a character as merely an obstace to overcome; like the many Mass Effect players who never let a character die if they can help it. Implementing tragedy makes a good story; not necessarily always including over-the-top scenarios like your example.

 

I don't want everything happy either. I know what you mean there.

 

I just think what tragic elements exist do their job well. I think Bioware already set out to put those kind of moments in, no matter what.

 

And to this day, I still stick by the sacrificed Warden story. That's how I first played. I was pissed when Awakening came out and made me think I did everything wrong.. but I'm back to where I was.

[Qun00]

Revolutionary badass? I'm talking about fighting the templars trying to take her sister away; even if she dies in the process.

Well, you can threaten the templars with the "Over my dead body" aggressive option when they show up to take Bethany away.

Hawke doesn't have to accept it meekly.

[congokong]

It's not for me, but it might be for Hawke.

I can see that.

 

Well, you can choose the "Over my dead body" aggressive option when the templars show up to take Bethany away.

Hawke doesn't have to accept it meekly.

It turns out to be an empty threat though. No like.

 

I don't want everything happy either. I know what you mean there.

 

I just think what tragic elements exist do their job well. I think Bioware already set out to put those kind of moments in, no matter what.

 

And to this day, I still stick by the sacrificed Warden story. That's how I first played. I was pissed when Awakening came out and made me think I did everything wrong.. but I'm back to where I was.

Different strokes for different folks. I like to ramp up the tragedy a bit more from the default.

[straykat]

 

Different strokes for different folks. I like to ramp up the tragedy a bit more from the default.

 

It's not that that we're that different. I love a lot of the choices, but when you first play - or play a certain type of character, I just go with instincts. It's only since the Keep came out, that I metagame more.

[congokong]

It's not that that we're that different. I love a lot of the choices, but when you first play - or play a certain type of character, I just go with instincts. It's only since the Keep came out, that I metagame more.

This discussion isn't really relevant to first playthroughs (unless you spoiled yourself) because you don't know the consequences of your actions and all your options. Instincts still apply to later playthroughs, but to a lesser extent because you can't "unknow" your meta-gaming knowledge. I still couldn't know what choices I'd make for a Hawke fully until I played; making the Keep less reliable to properly portray a character you never actually played.

[vertigomez]

Doesn't Bethany beg you not to pick a fight? Hawke might be swayed by that, even if their first instinct is to paint the walls with Templar blood.

[congokong]

Doesn't Bethany beg you not to pick a fight? Hawke might be swayed by that, even if their first instinct is to paint the walls with Templar blood.

If I was Hawke I'd expect Bethany to react that way. She seemed always one step away from willingly turning herself in to the Templars; especially if she's the only mage in the family.

[vertigomez]

If I was Hawke I'd expect Bethany to react that way. She seemed always one step away from willingly turning herself in to the Templars; especially if she's the only mage in the family.

Exactly! So I just sort of roll with it for her sake. It's traumatizing enough for an apostate to be caught, and Hawke being a pain in the ass about it might reflect badly on Bethany - the Circle's bad enough as it is, and you could RP that you don't want to give the Templars a reason to make it worse for her. I could easily see them "punishing" her for Hawke's perceived orneriness.

Even if you killed the ones holding her, I'm sure the higher-ups know where she is. I think the only thing you could do at that point is flee Kirkwall.

[congokong]

Exactly! So I just sort of roll with it for her sake. It's traumatizing enough for an apostate to be caught, and Hawke being a pain in the ass about it might reflect badly on Bethany - the Circle's bad enough as it is, and you could RP that you don't want to give the Templars a reason to make it worse for her. I could easily see them "punishing" her for Hawke's perceived orneriness.

Even if you killed the ones holding her, I'm sure the higher-ups know where she is. I think the only thing you could do at that point is flee Kirkwall.

I get the reasoning. I still don't like that Hawke's forced to just let them take her. And I always like the idea of my Hawke never failing as a protector by keeping Bethany out of the Circle; even if that ironically would be a better fate than the Wardens ...or death. lol

[Qun00]

It turns out to be an empty threat though. No like.

Objectively speaking, what you want wouldn't work in game.

You either remove the Circle option completely or subject it to a boss battle where losing doesn't lead to loading the last save.

And in that case, being beaten in combat would make Hawke look like a greater failure. The problem no longer is that he didn't try but that he was incapable.

Or you could beat the Templars and stop them from taking Bethany. But again, if that's what you want it makes more sense to remove the option altogether.

You see, there is no point in imposing conditions to how the Circle mage path should be. It all comes down to the fact that you don't like it.

[Jaison1986]

I think it's pettier for you to tell me how to play. "For the sake of drama, you destroy Bethany's life." You are aware this is a game, right? Bethany isn't actually real.

 

I'm not one of those many players who sees every potential bad outcome for a character as merely an obstace to overcome; like the many Mass Effect players who never let a character die if they can help it. Implementing tragedy makes a good story; not necessarily always including over-the-top scenarios like your example.

 

Not so much telling you how to play, as to calling out your poor justification. And I'm well aware it's a game. But these choices still reflect what kind of people we are in real life. And what does it say about someone who brings pain to others on pourpose, because otherwise it would be boring?

 

You can aways roleplay any character you want. From a saint to a utter douche. All I'm saying is that wanting these things to happen thinking it's genuinely the best outcome is cruel.

[vertigomez]

Not so much telling you how to play, as to calling out your poor justification. And I'm well aware it's a game. But these choices still reflect what kind of people we are in real life. And what does it say about someone who brings pain to others on pourpose, because otherwise it would be boring?
 
You can aways roleplay any character you want. From a saint to a utter douche. All I'm saying is that wanting these things to happen thinking it's genuinely the best outcome is cruel.

Um... no.

I don't know about you but I don't go around stabbing people to death or lighting them on fire, which is what Hawke does on the regular.

[sjsharp2011]

But I think it delivers a stronger statement to the poeple of Thedas that a non mage, of all people, stood for the mages.

 

Personally, I prefer warrior/rogue Hawke (especially rogue Hawke, as the overall story has a roguish vibe to it), while mage Hawke get's away with too much for me to buy it. I mean, at least Bethany get's caugh. That was more realistic.

 

 

Yeah most if not all of my warrior/rogue Hawke's leap to the mages defence. I suspect my current one will as well.

 

 

The other options are to make her a warden, or kill her off in the Deep Roads. I chose the former. And while I like playing a mage, I much prefer Bethany's friendship over Carver's rivalry; as mentioned already in this thread.

 

Yeah I prefer Bethany over Carver as well. I also find her moer useful as a companion too. She's a talented mage who kicks ass and I like that about her. The downsied is not being able to use her if I'm a mage myself but never mind. Have to give Bethany credit though for looking damn sexy in that Grey Warden armour. |First time I've had her as a GW in my current playthrough. Also she's the kind of person I don't think I could kill off given she's such a sweetie. Whereas with Carver I may be willing to given he's such a complainer not to mention he's not that keen on the all magic thing.

 

 

Since I plan on beating DA2 a third time, and DAI a second time, I'm not sure who my canon Hawke will be.

 

First was a mage, second was a rogue. My HOF is a male human mage, as is my Quis. I threw the rogue in there so the three protagonists weren't clones to an extent.

 

Protecting Bethany probably does make for a more compelling story, and honestly seems to fit Hawke's everyman persona better. 

 

Something to mull over.

 

 

Yeah that's what I try to do play each charascter a bit differently so they'er not al clones of each other. For example my warden in my current run was a human male noble 2 handed weapon warrior. My female Hawke is a sword and shield warrior. My Inquisitor when I get there will be a female elven rift mage

[Jaison1986]

Um... no.

I don't know about you but I don't go around stabbing people to death or lighting them on fire, which is what Hawke does on the regular.

 

I'm mean story wise, not gameplay wise. The big choices, not some random gameplay sequence.

[vertigomez]

I'm mean story wise, not gameplay wise. The big choices, not some random gameplay sequence.

That still doesn't say anything about who you are as a person, unless you just self-insert.

If someone feels that Warden Bethany makes for a better story than Circle Bethany, it doesn't mean they're some kind of sadist.

[Jaison1986]

That still doesn't say anything about who you are as a person, unless you just self-insert.

If someone feels that Warden Bethany makes for a better story than Circle Bethany, it doesn't mean they're some kind of sadist.

 

Well, that's pretty much my point. As it seems congo treats the situation in a self insert way. But if he is just roleplaying, then there is nothing more for me to say.

[congokong]

Not so much telling you how to play, as to calling out your poor justification. And I'm well aware it's a game. But these choices still reflect what kind of people we are in real life. And what does it say about someone who brings pain to others on pourpose, because otherwise it would be boring?

 

You can aways roleplay any character you want. From a saint to a utter douche. All I'm saying is that wanting these things to happen thinking it's genuinely the best outcome is cruel.

You are telling me how to play by having the nerve to say lIking tragedy in stories is "poor justification," and saying this reflects how I am in real life like I'm some kind of sadist, which I find very insulting. Are you sure you know it's a game? Because you're acting like it isn't and/or treating it like some kind of psychological analysis. All stories have tragedy or some sort of "negative" except maybe picture books for toddlers. So is a writer "cruel" for making one of their characters suffer when they could avoid it by wriitng otherwise? The player in a sense is writing their own story.

[congokong]

I'm mean story wise, not gameplay wise. The big choices, not some random gameplay sequence.

You're splitting hairs now. How is it alright to intentionally seek out a game where you go on killing sprees, but not alright making choices in that game that make the story more tragic?

[Illegitimus]

Not so much telling you how to play, as to calling out your poor justification. And I'm well aware it's a game. But these choices still reflect what kind of people we are in real life. And what does it say about someone who brings pain to others on pourpose, because otherwise it would be boring?

 

You can aways roleplay any character you want. From a saint to a utter douche. All I'm saying is that wanting these things to happen thinking it's genuinely the best outcome is cruel.

 

 Enjoying a certain degree of tragedy in your fiction doesn't imply a desire to see more of it in real life.  

[Jaison1986]

You are telling me how to play by having the nerve to say lIking tragedy in stories is "poor justification," and saying this reflects how I am in real life, which I find very insulting. Are you sure you know it's a game? Because you're acting like it isn't, or treating it like some kind of psychological analysis. All stories have tragedy or some sort of "negative" except maybe picture books for toddlers. So is a writer "cruel" for making one of their characters suffer when they could avoid it by wriitng otherwise? The player in a sense is writing their own story.

 

Tragedy for the sake of tragedy is never a good justification. More like running out of good ideas for a history. And mind you, I can like a tragic story. But you just try to make things as bleak as possible. Hawke's parents are dead, brother is dead, sister was doomed to a life many consider worse then death. Oh, why don't you shoot Hawke's dog while you're at it? Clearly, it isn't tragic enough. 

 

Poor comparasion. You're talking about writers in a sense you would apply to books and movies. But these are games were you are the one shaping the story. It's up to you to decide how well or terribly things end.