180 réponses à ce sujet

[Theronyll Itholien]

spernus wrote...

Theronyll Itholien wrote...

TheBestclass wrote...

I'm starting to think the only way to make some people happy would have been to just re-release ME1 again with better graphics and call it ME2.

Then I suggest you let the others do the thinking.

I'm thinking most people on this board who are "complaining" about Mass Effect 2 wanted to see the Mass Effect 1 issues improved, not removed.

Yes. That makes perfect sense.

Perhaps they did,but Bioware decided to go in another direction.

Not much they can do about it and at this point,I don't think Mass effect 3 will be what they want either.I do think complaining about it is a complete waste of time,but that's me.

It's not a waste of time. People who are complaining are not only
wanting the developers to hear them but are also seeking others who
agree with them. It's perfectly natural psychology which also applies
to them since they are not trolls, but humans. Shocking revelation for
the many here, I know.

[Daeion]

TheBestclass wrote...

Theronyll Itholien wrote...

mcvxiii wrote...

The only way for some people to be happy is for them to move on to another game. If you don't like a game or the experience of playing it the solution is obvious, don't play it. Oh right, for some whingeing on a forum is the most fun they have playing any game.

People who loved The Matrix, don't like the second and simply hate the third because that one is simply hidious shouldn't watch the second and the third. True. But after part one they were looking forward to the second and the third. Then they get disappointed. Then they want to let their disappointed be known. This is completely logical and they have the right to do so. Then, of course, there are the people who tell them the movies are great and the complainers should **** off. Those people should CHILL DOWN, because it is them, and not the complainers, who add nothing of worth to the topic.

8 out of 10 "complainers" I've seen posting so far have done so in a civilized manner and it's the "SHUT UP YOU TROLL" good-doers who are tainting my eyes with their beastial nature.

Okay, so your unhappy with the way the game turned out. That's fine, everyone's entitled to their own stupid opinion. The thing is, what is complaining about it going to do? What are you hoping to get out of this? You think they're going to remake the game because your unsatisfied? I may add nothing of worth to this topic but that's only because this topic is worthless to begin with.

Complaining about the combat in ME 1 got it changed in ME 2, perhaps if we complain enough about things that could have been improved instead of being taken out they will add them back in for ME3/

[bobito64]

I am amazed that people are complaining because Bioware have developed an alternative to the frankly ridiculous inventory systems that RPGs have had in the past. Can anyone honestly say that they enjoyed scrolling down through the list of all this detritus that they picked up on each mission, deciding what to sell and what to turn into omnigel before buying another 4 or 5 Spectre weapons? Because, once you had enough credits to buy Sectre gear, that's all anyone ever used.

The old inventory system, like those of other RPGs, is illogical, to the extent that it makes the game less immersive, on two counts:
1. It requires the main character to possess trouser pockets large enough to carry around 150 weapons and suits of armour.
2. Wherever you go in the game you will find that every store in town sells either weapons, suits of armour or both (nod to Bethesda here as their games usually have a few stores selling various other junk as well).

I for one am delighted that Bioware have developed a way of upgrading your gear that avoids the old fashioned inventory system.

Modifié par bobito64, 28 janvier 2010 - 01:59 .

[FireSarge]

ok now i do feel like they dumbed down the game to help the non hard core RPG players get involved.





i can deal with that not an issue.



they made combat play out more like a FPS/TPS deal.



ok this kinda sucks apparently people couldnt aim with the circle that expanded as you fired. they wanted true cross hairs.



again not so big a deal.



really i see this as now a tps with RPG elements then a true RPG game.





so far my decisions dont seem to matter now like they did in the first game. i feel like i am just running throw a story. the game play seems more linear. yes i know i can go where i want to a point and do what i want. well not really it seems the even though the galaxy is endanger i can take my sweet ass time getting there.



i just would have preferred it to be a little more like the first one with improvements.

[Daeion]

imported_beer wrote...

I don't understand.

I think Bioware was pretty clear about the direction they were going with regarding ME. It was a hybrid, and now it is even more so one with ME2 with greater simplicity regarding leveling, class building, and the non "personality" related elements of role playing. Thus, I think you had the information you needed to make an informed choice about game play and setting. I am sorry some of you were disappointed, but I don't understand why you got into that position given the information they kept giving.

I played ME1. But, I always knew I wasn't going to touch ME2 based on the info Bioware gave me. And I am happy with that choice because I know there are a LOT of people who enjoy precisely what they are offering with ME2 - a story rich cinematic experience that is intended to be more spontaneous than class strategic and they are probably having the time of their lives with this game. This game was intended for THEM. No?

We were told that we were getting ME1 with a better combat system, not that they were going to gut every aspect that made people stop and think.

[FireSarge]

bobito64 wrote...

I am amazed that people are complaining because Bioware have developed an alternative to the frankly ridiculous inventory systems that RPGs have had in the past. Can anyone honestly say that they enjoyed scrolling down through the list of all this detritus that they picked up on each mission, deciding what to sell and what to turn into omnigel before buying another 4 or 5 Spectre weapons? Because, once you had enough credits to buy Sectre gear, that's all anyone ever used.

The old inventory system, like those of other RPGs, is illogical, to the extent that it makes the game less immersive, on two counts:
1. It requires the main character to possess trouser pockets large enough to carry around 150 weapons and suits of armour.
2. Wherever you go in the game you will find that every store in town sells either weapons, suits of armour or both (nod to Bethesda here as their games usually have a few stores selling various other junk as well).

I for one am delighted that Bioware have developed a way of upgrading your gear that avoids the old fashioned inventory system.

i never kepted anyhting i wasnt using. it got sold or turned to gel. so yeah i didnt mind the thought of having an inventory system. kinda like i have a ship that i cant store anything on. suprised i can trade for resources with the hundreds of thousands of credits i already have.

[FireSarge]

Daeion wrote...

imported_beer wrote...

I don't understand.

I think Bioware was pretty clear about the direction they were going with regarding ME. It was a hybrid, and now it is even more so one with ME2 with greater simplicity regarding leveling, class building, and the non "personality" related elements of role playing. Thus, I think you had the information you needed to make an informed choice about game play and setting. I am sorry some of you were disappointed, but I don't understand why you got into that position given the information they kept giving.

I played ME1. But, I always knew I wasn't going to touch ME2 based on the info Bioware gave me. And I am happy with that choice because I know there are a LOT of people who enjoy precisely what they are offering with ME2 - a story rich cinematic experience that is intended to be more spontaneous than class strategic and they are probably having the time of their lives with this game. This game was intended for THEM. No?

We were told that we were getting ME1 with a better combat system, not that they were going to gut every aspect that made people stop and think.

i wouldnt say a better combat system. its a combat system designed for shooter style players. i had no problems with the old one. granted i play assorted other shooters but when i pick up an RPG type game i want a story crappy combat fetures can be overlooked if the game has a great storyline that will keep my in my seat  for hours on end.

[Chained_Creator]

The only type of 'complainers' that I disagree with are those that insist that the game has been 'dumbed-down', as if people that desire simplicity are too stupid to handle complexity. I do not agree with that sentiment.

[Daeion]

bobito64 wrote...

I am amazed that people are complaining because Bioware have developed an alternative to the frankly ridiculous inventory systems that RPGs have had in the past. Can anyone honestly say that they enjoyed scrolling down through the list of all this detritus that they picked up on each mission, deciding what to sell and what to turn into omnigel before buying another 4 or 5 Spectre weapons? Because, once you had enough credits to buy Sectre gear, that's all anyone ever used.

The old inventory system, like those of other RPGs, is illogical, to the extent that it makes the game less immersive, on two counts:
1. It requires the main character to possess trouser pockets large enough to carry around 150 weapons and suits of armour.
2. Wherever you go in the game you will find that every store in town sells either weapons, suits of armour or both (nod to Bethesda here as their games usually have a few stores selling various other junk as well).

I for one am delighted that Bioware have developed a way of upgrading your gear that avoids the old fashioned inventory system.

No one has sad the old system was perfect and multiple times we have mentioned how it could easily have been fixed.  Sure it's not realistic that I can carry 10 suits of armor and 50 guns, but it's also not realistic that I can find a gun and within 1 second of finding that gun everyone who can us it is equiped with it and didn't even need to go back to the normandy to get it.

[Sidney]

bobito64 wrote...

I am amazed that people are complaining because Bioware have developed an alternative to the frankly ridiculous inventory systems that RPGs have had in the past. Can anyone honestly say that they enjoyed scrolling down through the list of all this detritus that they picked up on each mission, deciding what to sell and what to turn into omnigel before buying another 4 or 5 Spectre weapons? Because, once you had enough credits to buy Sectre gear, that's all anyone ever used.

The old inventory system, like those of other RPGs, is illogical, to the extent that it makes the game less immersive, on two counts:
1. It requires the main character to possess trouser pockets large enough to carry around 150 weapons and suits of armour.
2. Wherever you go in the game you will find that every store in town sells either weapons, suits of armour or both (nod to Bethesda here as their games usually have a few stores selling various other junk as well).

I for one am delighted that Bioware have developed a way of upgrading your gear that avoids the old fashioned inventory system.

Amen, I hate the feeling of having to loot corpses for stuff (see DAO) and then trucking all those suits of armor and weapons around was always awful.

My favorite "inventory" system was Jade Empire where there basically was no inventory system. I know the OCD crowd will lose their minds about this but I want to lose as much of the administrative overhead as a I can and play the flippin' game and be a hero not a stock clerk.

[E_Dawgg]

I loved Mass Effect 1 and I love Mass Effect 2 as well. Love them for what they are, a game, and splendid games at that. Kudos Bioware.

[Theronyll Itholien]

FireSarge wrote...

so far my decisions dont seem to matter now like they did in the first game. i feel like i am just running throw a story. the game play seems more linear. yes i know i can go where i want to a point and do what i want. well not really it seems the even though the galaxy is endanger i can take my sweet ass time getting there.

i just would have preferred it to be a little more like the first one with improvements.

I agree with you. I, too, feel like my decisions don't really matter. OK OK I save a guy from joining the mercs but that stupid email I received as a result doesn't add any worth to the game for me. It's too easy. I must say, however, that I'm not far enough into the game yet so maybe I shouldn't judge.. but it's just the feeling I'm getting so far.

About the linear part: absolutely. Pick up scientist, biotic psycho, sniping rebel, potatoes, milk, ham and some soda then come back so we can have dinner -- Oh, and hurt the Collectors.

[Pathim]

I've really haven't gotten farther then the very beginning on Mass E2.  It seems to be built more along the lines of the old KOTOR game.  The moving about tends to make me dizzy.  And having the woman yelling instructions at me isn't great.  It seems sort of like a step back instead of a step forward.  But, as I said I haven't gotten far into the game.  At present I'm disappointed.  And that is probably because I expected the game play to be about the same as Mass E1.  I am willing to give the game a chance.  Let me just say that Mass E1 has been very enjoyable.   I am having trouble with adjusting to the game controls on Mass E2 also.  The changes I've seen so far, other then the beginning video, just haven't given me any enjoyment.  We'll see after getting pass the tut.  If I can stand the play action long enough to get there.  My thoughts are that we should give it a chance, maybe things get better.

[FireSarge]

Chained_Creator wrote...

The only type of 'complainers' that I disagree with are those that insist that the game has been 'dumbed-down', as if people that desire simplicity are too stupid to handle complexity. I do not agree with that sentiment.

no no not that people cant handle it. but tradtionally a RPG  game or a game with RPG elements are for a target audience.


this game was made simpler to target a bigger group of people. instead of going after the RPG players they want the FPS/TPS players thus they made many changes that now result in the RPG players feel lke they are being treated like they are idiots.


thats where the dumbed down part comes in.

its like the military. every class in the miltiary is taught to soldiers barney style. it is broken down to the easiest simplest matter so anyone can do it. for people used to something more it leaves a sick taste in your mouth.

[Theronyll Itholien]

Pathim wrote...

I've really haven't gotten farther then the very beginning on Mass E2.  It seems to be built more along the lines of the old KOTOR game.  The moving about tends to make me dizzy.  And having the woman yelling instructions at me isn't great.  It seems sort of like a step back instead of a step forward.  But, as I said I haven't gotten far into the game.  At present I'm disappointed.  And that is probably because I expected the game play to be about the same as Mass E1.  I am willing to give the game a chance.  Let me just say that Mass E1 has been very enjoyable.   I am having trouble with adjusting to the game controls on Mass E2 also.  The changes I've seen so far, other then the beginning video, just haven't given me any enjoyment.  We'll see after getting pass the tut.  If I can stand the play action long enough to get there.  My thoughts are that we should give it a chance, maybe things get better.

These are my thoughts too. I still have a pirated version so I stopped playing two days ago and waiting for my CE copy to arrive (I often use pirate stuff as demos).

I was, however, extremely shocked that after the Illusive Man gave me a list of 4 people to pick up.. he gave me the rest of the list INSTANTLY after I'd checked his first list. I was so unpleasantly surprised by the linearity of it all!!

(Am I, by the way, the only one who sees the similarity with Dragon Age? Darkspawn are appearing and your mainstory is getting alliances to fight them. In Mass Effect Collectors are appearing and your mainstory is getting alliances (in the form of companions) to fight them.)

*sigh* But.. like you said.. maybe it'll all get better. Maybe the story will still knock my socks off like KOTOR did when they told me I was Revan.

Modifié par Theronyll Itholien, 28 janvier 2010 - 02:22 .

[PanzehII]

I feel like the inventory of ME1 was a terrible system, but they could have used more weapon choices to improve the feeling of progression.



The RPG elements seemed fine enough to me.

[Gorn Kregore]

Am I the only one who feels like the RPG elements are exactly the same as ME1?

[spernus]

Theronyll Itholien wrote...

It's not a waste of time. People who are complaining are not only
wanting the developers to hear them but are also seeking others who
agree with them. It's perfectly natural psychology which also applies
to them since they are not trolls, but humans. Shocking revelation for
the many here, I know.

It's like this on every message board,and I should know since I did  spend too much time complaining on the world of warcraft official forum.

Bioware decided that Mass effect will be a casual friendly franchise,aiming to potentially sell 4-5+ million copies.The less stats and rpg element the better or so they think.

People can disagree of course,but it won't matter if ME 2 significantly outsell the original and more shooter happy gamer buy it(as would be the case if it sell 4-5 million copies given that the original sold 2.2 or 2.3 million).

[Theronyll Itholien]

Gorn Kregore wrote...

Am I the only one who feels like the RPG elements are exactly the same as ME1?

You sure as hell should be!

[Chained_Creator]

FireSarge wrote...
no no not that people cant handle it. but tradtionally a RPG  game or a game with RPG elements are for a target audience.

Mass Effect 2 is not an RPG game. Mass Effect 2 is an RPG/TPS game.

FireSarge wrote...
this game was made simpler to target a bigger group of people. instead of going after the RPG players they want the FPS/TPS players thus they made many changes that now result in the RPG players feel lke they are being treated like they are idiots.

Then maybe RPG players should research their purchases more. They could do multi-layer flow-charts and other complex diagrams so they could understand the mechanics behind their purchases!

FireSarge wrote...
thats where the dumbed down part comes in.

its like the military. every class in the miltiary is taught to soldiers barney style. it is broken down to the easiest simplest matter so anyone can do it. for people used to something more it leaves a sick taste in your mouth.

Don't know what to tell you. *shrug*

[tony2077]

if you don't like the game don't play it and stop complaining about it

[Theronyll Itholien]

spernus wrote...

Theronyll Itholien wrote...

It's not a waste of time. People who are complaining are not only
wanting the developers to hear them but are also seeking others who
agree with them. It's perfectly natural psychology which also applies
to them since they are not trolls, but humans. Shocking revelation for
the many here, I know.

It's like this on every message board,and I should know since I did  spend too much time complaining on the world of warcraft official forum.

Bioware decided that Mass effect will be a casual friendly franchise,aiming to potentially sell 4-5+ million copies.The less stats and rpg element the better or so they think.

People can disagree of course,but it won't matter if ME 2 significantly outsell the original and more shooter happy gamer buy it(as would be the case if it sell 4-5 million copies given that the original sold 2.2 or 2.3 million).

And you don't think that shift is depressing as BioWare was right about the last big game-company who held its passion for the complex RPG elements in games? OK, they released Dragon Age a few months ago so maybe I shouldn't worry too much on that aspect.

Don't target me too much, by the way. I don't chicken out of letting my opinions be heard though this often gives others the wrong impression. I do enjoy Mass Effect 2. As a matter of fact, I'm love the game! BUT that doesn't mean it's perfect and neither does it mean that I'm turning a blind eye to things they ****ed up.

[FireSarge]

Chained_Creator wrote...

FireSarge wrote...
no no not that people cant handle it. but tradtionally a RPG  game or a game with RPG elements are for a target audience.

Mass Effect 2 is not an RPG game. Mass Effect 2 is an RPG/TPS game.

FireSarge wrote...
this game was made simpler to target a bigger group of people. instead of going after the RPG players they want the FPS/TPS players thus they made many changes that now result in the RPG players feel lke they are being treated like they are idiots.

Then maybe RPG players should research their purchases more. They could do multi-layer flow-charts and other complex diagrams so they could understand the mechanics behind their purchases!

FireSarge wrote...
thats where the dumbed down part comes in.

its like the military. every class in the miltiary is taught to soldiers barney style. it is broken down to the easiest simplest matter so anyone can do it. for people used to something more it leaves a sick taste in your mouth.

Don't know what to tell you. *shrug*

ok maybe i can dumb down my statement for you then.

you take a game that is more RPG then TPS to begin with(ME1). listen to all the shooter fans whine. then throw out almost all the RPG elements to give the shooters what they want then you end up with the RPG players that keep coming back the the same company for the excellent RPGs they make get a little upset. 

someone in another thread said it perfectly. i can spend up to 600 hours on a bioware game normally. honeslt ME2 i will maybe play once and i am done. no reason to play through it again. your decisions dont seem to matter.

[TileToad]

Chained_Creator wrote...

The only type of 'complainers' that I disagree with are those that insist that the game has been 'dumbed-down', as if people that desire simplicity are too stupid to handle complexity. I do not agree with that sentiment.

Erm.. why would you feel the need to insist that the game is not dumbed down if, as you state, you don't believe it has anything to do with a lack of intelligence (handling complexity)? I don't understand that reasoning..

Modifié par TileToad, 28 janvier 2010 - 02:34 .