105 réponses à ce sujet

[Vit246]

I don't expect to be able to play a Dalish Elf in Tevinter (but then again bioware let us play a mage in freaking kirkwall). I hope I can be a City Elf who wants to be more elven.

[PapaCharlie9]

Re: Dalish in/around Tevinter (foreshadowed location of DA4)

The War Table missions for Clan Lavellan were located somewhere in the Free Marches. According to the wiki:

The Lavellan clan (pronounced LAH-vell-AHN[1]) is a Dalish clan that wanders the wilderness in the northern Free Marches.

That would put the Dalish, if not in Tevinter, right on the border with Tevinter.

[QueenCrow]

Re: Dalish in/around Tevinter (foreshadowed location of DA4)

The War Table missions for Clan Lavellan were located somewhere in the Free Marches. According to the wiki:


That would put the Dalish, if not in Tevinter, right on the border with Tevinter.

Marethari's Sabrae clan is in the Free Marches too, yes?

[Ariella]

Marethari's Sabrae clan is in the Free Marches too, yes?

Unless they get killed, I think so.

But Dorian specifically says that they don't see Dalish in and around Tevinter for obvious reasons. If I were them, I'd avoid coming in 100 miles of the border.

[QueenCrow]

Unless they get killed, I think so.

But Dorian specifically says that they don't see Dalish in and around Tevinter for obvious reasons. If I were them, I'd avoid coming in 100 miles of the border.

I'm in agreement with you about avoiding a place where Dalish make good slaves, if broken - unless, of course, something big changes, and in order to make an exciting, compelling game, something big will change. All this is an aside, too, to the fact that super-elf Solas may be heading right there to Tevinter, and may have a group of elves looking to join him, though they may be compelled to add to his number of spies... in slave tunics perhaps?

 

Talking about it with you all is making me excited!  I'll have to try and hang on to that feeling for a few years.

[Ariella]

I'm in agreement with you about avoiding a place where Dalish make good slaves, if broken - unless, of course, something big changes, and in order to make an exciting, compelling game, something big will change. All this is an aside, too, to the fact that super-elf Solas may be heading right there to Tevinter, and may have a group of elves looking to join him, though they may be compelled to add to his number of spies... in slave tunics perhaps?
 
Talking about it with you all is making me excited!  I'll have to try and hang on to that feeling for a few years.

If his spy network is as good as implied, he may just be able to move people through the eluvian. Dragon Age's take on the underground railroad.

[Gervaise]

If we are able to play an elf in DA4 it will be a city elf.    Dorian specifically says there are no Dalish in Tevinter and there are obvious reasons they would avoid it.   It is bad enough having to dodge slavers down south where officially slavery is illegal, but plenty of people seem to profit from the trade, but trying to travel round Tevinter would be a sheer impossibility.   The Freemarches is a big enough area that Lavellan clan probably never got anywhere near the Tevinter border.   Wycombe is in the south.  People are surprised enough there are any clans as far north as the Freemarches, so the majority of them are likely in Orlais and Ferelden, with a few isolated clans in Rivain and Antiva.    I suppose you could be a Dalish who was captured by slavers in the south and taken to Tevinter. 

 

With the city elves I would think there are two factions trying to recruit them in Tevinter; Solas and the Qun.    Those who are suspicious of an elven mage promising to restore their greatness or hold prejudices against mages simply because of their treatment under the Magisters, are more likely to opt for the Qun.    As for supporting Solas if he reveals even a part of his plan to destroy the world, if they largely live without hope anyway the elven slaves might actually think their chances in such a future are actually better.   In any case, just to spite their overlords they might be willing to work against them.

 

A PC will likely not be of either faction but bought out of slavery, possibly by Dorian, to encourage them to join the cause against both aggressors.    How they will be persuaded is anyone's guess.    The idea of being asked to play a freed slave is one that appeals to me and also would be applicable to any race, since all can be found as slaves in Tevinter and the Qun actively recruit humans as well as elves, and probably dwarves if they can.    If the qunari back story was that they had been part of the Qun as a civilian and then captured on Seheron, that would give scope for them not to be totally committed and thus willing to oppose them.    Any race but elf is not going to support Solas.    It would make a change for a human PC not to be a noble, or at least have the option of not being a noble.    It is about time that human players got to experience the low life.  (Hawke doesn't count because they were really nobility and once they bought back their land and title, were accepted as such by other nobility, even snooty Orlesians).

 

As a PC elf, once I have been told the truth about what Solas really plans, then I would oppose him.    I don't want my family and friends destroyed by him.     It would be intriguing if we were given the task of infiltrating one of his cells and trying to find out more about his plans.   Unfortunately that would only be possible if you were an elf and since the majority of people don't seem to like playing anything but human that would not work for a main plot thread but could be part of a sub-plot tailored to each individual race.   

[Wulfram]

I do think there's a strong argument for allowing a Dalish character in a story that seems like it'll deeply concerns their religion.

[ComedicSociopathy]

I do think there's a strong argument for allowing a Dalish character in a story that seems like it'll deeply concerns their religion.

 

City elves have been known to have some knowledge of the Creators, and Sera implies in JoH a few even worship both the Creatos and the Maker like Ameridan did. Cannot be sure that the same isn't true for the elves in Tevinter. 

[Carmen_Willow]

God, I hope elves are a playable race for DA4. I'll play the **** out of them.

 

I think it has the potential for a very difficult moral choices with no easy answers.

 

If playing a human, of course you're against the Dread Wolf. You're not an elf, so why should you care what they lost? And you benefit from the current worldstate where humans are in charge of everything and elves are depowered servants. Why wouldn't you want to keep it that way?

 

As an elf, it's not quite so cut-and-dry. (Unless you want to roleplay an elf-hating "human with pointed ears" like Sera.) You're fully aware of what your people lost and how they suffer under humans. Here your people have a chance to reclaim everything they lost and escape human oppression, but at the cost of the world as we know it and the other races in it. On the one hand, it's a terrible thing to destroy the current world for other races just to benefit the elves. On the other hand, the other races have never been good to the elves (humans enslaved them, dwarves looked the other way or flat-out slaughtered them when humans enslaved them, and Qunari just want to enslave them to the Qun), so some bitter elves might ask, "Why should we owe them anything? They didn't care when our world was destroyed and took advantage of us when we were down, so why should we keep denying ourselves for people who just keep using and abusing us?"

 

Though I'm pretty sure the game is going to force us to take a stance against Fen'Harel, it still has some interesting roleplay potential. I think roleplaying a character who doesn't benefit from the world's status quo but who still sees enough good in it (despite experiencing the worst in it) to defend it is much more meaningful than someone who benefits from it and defends it to maintain their own privilege. As long as we get the option to occasionally express feeling torn, empathizing with Fen'Harel and his followers' feelings, wanting to still help elves in a different way after stopping Fen'Harel, etc., I'll be happy.

The only thing I can think of that would make a human, dwarf or Qunari side with the Wolf is if he could show that if things aren't put back the way they were ALL life on Thedas will succumb to the Blight. We're already getting hints that killing the old gods won't stop the Blight, that the Blight comes from below, not the Golden City, and that there is something seriously wrong with the planet itself (and the Titans).

If the Wolf can convince you that the entire planet is at risk unless the Veil is sundered and the Fade restored, what would you suggest happen? Otherwise, I'm with you. Why would I give up my world and my life, flawed as both may be, to die so his world can return?

[Bad King]

Solas sort of disdains all the races of Thedas. Dwarves, Humans and Qunari included. 

 

How is Sera not representative of city elves?

 

- Was likely born in an alienage

- She hated living in an alienage

- She's uneducated

- She's an Andrastian

- She sought out the Dalish at some point which didn't end well

- She shuns the Dalish faith

- She's poor, a criminal and likes to drink

- She starved in an alienage

- She hates most human nobles and constantly fights/pull pranks against them

- She works in a thieves guild 

- She attempts to blend into human culture

- She believes that the Dalish look down on her

- She only has a passing knowledge of elven culture

- She despises chevaliers

 

Yeah, she doesn't care one bit about  preserving elven culture, which honestly at this point is hard to nail down what that even at this point, but she has a lot of the cultural traits of a city elf. Good and bad. 

 

Solas appears to have particular disdain for the Dalish due to their 'corruption' in his mind of ancient elven traditions and their 'superstitions' in regard to blood magic. I only recall him making derogatory comments about other races if you anger him by lowering his approval, and he seems to pity rather than dislike the city elves.

 

Some of your points about Sera actually prove why she's so very different from most city elves in the games. Most city elves you meet value their alienage communities and value certain cultural rituals and practices that bind the community together (such as planting and tending vhenadahl trees, leaving offerings at them, using some elven vocabulary and having elders as community leaders) - for many elves alienages are sanctuaries and not prisons, and they do make an effort to distinguish themselves as separate to the human communities. As people living in terrible poverty, clinging to this separate identity may be one of the few things they have left. There is certainly some degree of syncretism in alienage communities: they appear not to actively attempt to 'blend in' with human culture. Sera spent much of her life living in the household of a minor human noble (a much more privileged upbringing than most city elves would have) and it's certainly rubbed off on her: she's culturally indistinguishable from a human. 

 

Regarding the city elf view of the Dalish, there's clearly a big mix of attitudes. Some have romanticised views of them (Briala and that elven scholar in the Circle tower spring to mind), some intensely demonise them (believing that they practice human sacrifice) and others don't believe that they exist at all. Sera's attitude towards the Dalish doesn't really fit into any of these three categories as her problem with the Dalish revolves around their efforts to preserve a separate elven identity and doesn't rest on any preconception of them being evil (as some city elves believe). So even on her views of the Dalish, I'd say she isn't representative of most city elves.

[PapaCharlie9]

If his spy network is as good as implied, he may just be able to move people through the eluvian. Dragon Age's take on the underground railroad.

I think that makes a lot of sense. It should be easy to recruit slave elves from Tevinter by simply offering them freedom (of a sort).

[PapaCharlie9]

If we are able to play an elf in DA4 it will be a city elf.    Dorian specifically says there are no Dalish in Tevinter and there are obvious reasons they would avoid it.

True, but that doesn't mean the PC has to come from Tevinter. None of the back stories for DAI came from Haven.

Maybe there will be plausible plot device, akin to the Conclave of DAI, to draw people from around the world to Tevinter. Or maybe the PC will be under-cover. The disbanded Inquisition option kind of implies that the counter-insurgency will be on the down-low. Of course, not sure how that works with the retained Inquisition option.

Personally, since I played a Dalish elf in DAI and a city elf in Origins, it would be cool if there were a third option.

How about a Crow enforcer?! And Zev is an uncle!
 

[Illegitimus]

If we are able to play an elf in DA4 it will be a city elf.    Dorian specifically says there are no Dalish in Tevinter and there are obvious reasons they would avoid it.   It is bad enough having to dodge slavers down south where officially slavery is illegal, but plenty of people seem to profit from the trade, but trying to travel round Tevinter would be a sheer impossibility.   

 

That's an argument against Dalish clans being in Tevinter (and obviously like any nomadic culture that shuns cities they aren't going to be in a high population realm anyway).  It's not at all an argument against against someone raised Dalish being there as, say, a recently captured slave.  

[Evamitchelle]

Re: Dalish in/around Tevinter (foreshadowed location of DA4)

The War Table missions for Clan Lavellan were located somewhere in the Free Marches. According to the wiki:


That would put the Dalish, if not in Tevinter, right on the border with Tevinter.

 

The northern Free Marches are mostly on the border of Antiva. During the events of DAI Clan Lavellan seems to be located around Wycome, which is firmly south of the Antivan border. You have to go hundreds if not thousands of miles west before getting anywhere near Tevinter. Hasmal is said to be getting a lot of escaped Tevinter slaves for example. 

[Solas]

I hope they're a playable race. Background-wise, Dalish are my ultimate favs, but this time let the elf PC be a City Elf or an elf from Tevinter or something similar. Time for a different focus and perspective.

[vertigomez]

If a Dalish elf can be the Herald of Andraste, I'm pretty sure a city elf can believably oppose Fen'Harel.

[Ariella]

If a Dalish elf can be the Herald of Andraste, I'm pretty sure a city elf can believably oppose Fen'Harel.

If they're Chantry, even Imperial, following Solas would be sinful.

An atheist or agnostic would possibly have trouble following someone who was believed to be a god.

And honestly, I have to wonder if so many Dalish would follow. He's a trickster god, and no matter what he says a lifetime of belief, or indoctrination if you prefer, that easily.

[Ashagar]

Honestly I don't care one way or another but what I am hoping we get to experience Tevinter from a Tevinter perspective though no matter what the race and not a southern thadas views, a land where mages rule, where surface dwarves are highly respected as emissaries and the cradle of human civilization in Thadas.

 

Of course I also hope we get to learn more about ancient Maker beliefs and the Neromenians given this is the land where maker belief arrived in Thadas with the Northern Neromenian tribes and where the belief in him persisted even long after the rise of the worship of the old gods to the time of Andreste. Would be interesting to see such things from both a human and nonhuman viewpoints.

[PapaCharlie9]

Honestly I don't care one way or another but what I am hoping we get to experience Tevinter from a Tevinter perspective though no matter what the race and not a southern thadas views, a land where mages rule, where surface dwarves are highly respected as emissaries and the cradle of human civilization in Thadas.

 

Seems unlikely, given that Tevinter may be occupied with defending against a Qunari onslaught. I also have a hard time seeing how Tevinter leads the counter-insurgency against Solas, since they were isolationists (at best, Venatori enablers at worst) with respect to the Breach and Coryphish. Dorian's influence in the Magisterium notwithstanding.

 

My guess is that the remnants of the Inquisition/personal guard of the Divine will infiltrate Tevinter and operate more-or-less against the backdrop of the Qunari war, but not actually be part of it. War is chaos and chaos presents opportunities for covert operations, although that is true for Solas as well, regrettably.

[DDJ]

DAI left a lot of things hanging as any good story should, and for whatever its flaws, DAI is a good story.  I suspect that we will be able to play as an elf.  I recall the uproar when DA2 came out and we could only play as a human.  Bioware will not make that mistake again.  For example, if the Warden survived the Blight and romanced Morrigan / Leliana they are off looking for some way to be cured of the corruption Alastair and Duncan forced on them.  Hawke had vanished in the Anderfels, but apparently returned to Kirkwall.  So what is the Warden rift they speak of?  

 

Bioware has been reluctant to bring the Warden back for a cameo - and in DAI for good reason.  However, let's look at the facts here.  I have followed this story in the games and books.  If you played to poison the sacred ashes and have Wynne and Leliana in your party, lo and behold after killing both of them you have both of them return to life.  Wynne does die, but she does it in one of the books.  She will not be back.  Leliana returns to life as well, so killing them involves a miracle recovery.  The same may be said of the Warden.  Even if the Warden died in your DAO playthrough, back they come in Awakening and Witch Hunt.  A weaker case could be made for Sten if you do not recruit him at Lothering, but he could have escaped.  The point is that regardless of how your DAO ends, the Warden can be alive and at some point will rejoin the fold.  Another miracle.

 

If they deal with the Warden rift at all, the Warden and Hawke should be involved.  Perhaps the Warden found a cure and used it.  The DAI story seems to imply that they would.  So; perhaps the Wardens are seeking "justice" on Tervinter for the Corypheus scheme and the Inquisitor must put it down along with Solas.  I think that the option to play as an elf will be there.  Frankly none of the other races appealed to me although I did like DA2.  We will see, but Dragon Age will soon need to start chopping limbs.

[Ashagar]

Seems unlikely, given that Tevinter may be occupied with defending against a Qunari onslaught. I also have a hard time seeing how Tevinter leads the counter-insurgency against Solas, since they were isolationists (at best, Venatori enablers at worst) with respect to the Breach and Coryphish. Dorian's influence in the Magisterium notwithstanding.

 

My guess is that the remnants of the Inquisition/personal guard of the Divine will infiltrate Tevinter and operate more-or-less against the backdrop of the Qunari war, but not actually be part of it. War is chaos and chaos presents opportunities for covert operations, although that is true for Solas as well, regrettably.

 

The Tevinter do have their own version of the Templars though they don't have the lyrium based anti-magic abilities of the southern Templars so its likely a matter of pure training, also Tevinter is likely have groups that exist to try to uncover spies who could come across Solas's agents just as the Qunari did. It just seems like it would be a utter waste of potential if they didn't make use of northerner protagonists in the next game regardless of the race to give a different world view to work from.

[TheEnigmousPretentiator]

Exactly. I think that follows.

 

I'm surprised though that there is disagreement about whether the majority of elves would join Solas or not. That's pretty well established, to my interpretation. Most of the elves, one way or the other, were oppressed. Solas offers a way to fight that oppression. Who would say no to that and why?

 

People who value their oppressor's lives more than they value their freedom and/or prefer their certain degradation more than the uncertainity of an upheaval, and I believe Solas would be neither surprised nor slighted by elves refusing his offer, which I expect to be most, more so for the latter reason.

[Fredward]

Obviously. Just as an aside I don't think Solas is going to introduce himself as Dalish satan and tell all his new recruits how he's going to destroy everything, he'll string them along cuz he needs bodies but that's it. He'll become the ultimate inversion of everything he used to represent. I also doubt the majority of elves are suddenly going to drop their lives and run off to join him, bloody revolution only ever appeals to the most aggressively disenfranchised.

[Derrame]

yeah, i'd like alves as playable race, maybe with new skills