Mine is that when I see a city that boasts "Never been conquered", I say "Challenge accepted."
What you'll need, then, is a Thedas strategy game. In such a game - as opposed to a story-driven rpg - that could be a real achievement. Thinking about it, I'd buy that game in an instant, if it was well-designed.
What you'll need, then, is a Thedas strategy game. In such a game - as opposed to a story-driven rpg - that could be a real achievement. Thinking about it, I'd buy that game in an instant, if it was well-designed.
I think I saw on reddit a guy who made some dragon age mode for civilization .
Here :http://forums.civfan...ad.php?t=547136
I don't play civilization so I have no idea if this mode is good or not , but some might enjoy it.
Well - if it's Tevinter I can't see anything other than a human protagonist.
Also - being a non-mage Altus who's as ruthless as any Magister and kills his way to power for his house on the broken backs of wailing magisters.... is appealing.
Please tell me we are all on the same page?
That place has been teased in the lore for AGES.
If you don't want that to be the main setting, then where would you like to see the next game set?
I don't mind it. It'll be more interesting than playing in Ferelden again or just tiptoeing around the kingdom like past games have been doing. I'd prefer to go to Rivain and see how the Qunari influence has affected cultural traditions and learn more about the magical practices of Rivaini Seers. Or Antiva, to finally see the supposed shining jewel that is Antiva City and deal with the rotten Merchant-Princes and their Crow puppeteers. Or maybe see what the hell is going on with the Wardens in the Anderfels.
But Tevinter is cool too, and I'd like to correlate the very separate experiences of Fenris, Dorian, and Krem, on top of seeing it for myself.
You mean will its depiction be completely one-sided as in DAO and DA2, or will it allow for some variation as in DAI. You know, the treatment of the mages in Redcliffe wasn't exactly gentle, we've seen Erimond oversee human sacrifice in person, and Dorian's accounts of politics add quite a bit of lore about magisterium politics that aren't pleasant either. I don't see that being "lame", they just decided to show there's more to the place than stereotypical Evil Empire stuff.
I think what people should keep in mind is that Dorian's experience is based on his life as a member of an elite family in a urban setting. The key things here would be that most economic activity in that environment would be focused on administration, trade and services, with a lot of non-slave common labour and craft type activity (Krem's dad was originally a tailor before being forced into slavery); while the rural economy would focus more on the production of consumables and other raw goods and materials.
In contrast to Dorian's experience we may see that there is a lot more large scale and heavily exploitative slavery in the rural areas, depending on the way agriculture is organized, the type of crop, whether the system can accomodate and the crops are more suited to a small tenure peasant type of cultivation or is whether it would be focused more on larger scale plantations possibly cash crops (slavery, infamously cotton). In other types of resource activity as in DA2, we had the bonepit mine has a example where slave labour was originally used and abused. Keep in mind that in Tevinter as a whole, it being a pre-industrial society, agriculture, along with other resource activities, would be the primary economic activity for the majority of the population, slave or non-slave. Just that Dorian may not have much knowledge of it. (There's also the whole issue of the slave trade, not hinted at by Dorian, which as a wholesale type of activity would tend to have higher acceptable rates of 'attritiion'.)
I really like your idea in another post about visiting Seheron. The way Bull describes it is sounds like hell, although Fenris in DA2 had a different opinion as an adoptee of the Fog Warriors. If there is a hell or something like it, we need to visit it -- cause complex is good. I think it's entirely possible to do this and still have Tevinter as a primary location.
^ You really address what I was attempting to get at with an earlier post I made in this thread. Slavery is such an integral part of Tevinter society and there will be many different forms of it all throughout the Imperium. They attempted to bring a bit of nuance into it with DAI, but just a smidgen. I don't know... I'm not really sure they can, will, or even want to, put a great deal of effort into portraying the issue of slavery in Tevinter as greatly nuanced. Even with something much more simplistic like templars and mages, it took three games and an entire novel to get across the varied perspectives that have informed countless threads, and contributed to numerous discussions on the these forums.
Also, the problem with slavery isn't solely limited to Tevinter. As you point out, the issue of the slave trade isn't touched on at all -- one of my points of contention with the Dorian conversation -- but every nation contributes to it, whether unwittingly, knowingly (as in the case of Loghain in DAO), or with tacit approval by not putting in the effort required to prevent Tevinter slavers from kidnapping citizens (which we saw in DA2).
ALL nations in Thedas are complicit. Yes, they are feeding Tevinter's unending need for more, and perhaps if Tevinter didn't use slaves at all then it wouldn't happen in the first place. But the behavior of other nations is also what allows Tevinter to continue to use slaves. If the nations of Thedas decided to really crack down on slave deportation, then Tevinter would have to move to focus more on breeding slaves since they won't be able to rely on their importation, which presents its own challenges. This would require that the Magisterium actually accomplish something, and as we can see from at least one codex entry, they are often too focused on the issue in front of them rather than looking long term, surprising for a nation that has existed for several millennia.
I think what people should keep in mind is that Dorian's experience is based on his life as a member of an elite family in a urban setting. The key things here would be that most economic activity in that environment would be focused on administration, trade and services, with a lot of non-slave common labour and craft type activity (Krem's dad was originally a tailor before being forced into slavery); while the rural economy would focus more on the production of consumables and other raw goods and materials.
In contrast to Dorian's experience we may see that there is a lot more large scale and heavily exploitative slavery in the rural areas, depending on the way agriculture is organized, the type of crop, whether the system can accomodate and the crops are more suited to a small tenure peasant type of cultivation or is whether it would be focused more on larger scale plantations possibly cash crops (slavery, infamously cotton). In other types of resource activity as in DA2, we had the bonepit mine has a example where slave labour was originally used and abused. Keep in mind that in Tevinter as a whole, it being a pre-industrial society, agriculture, along with other resource activities, would be the primary economic activity for the majority of the population, slave or non-slave. Just that Dorian may not have much knowledge of it. (There's also the whole issue of the slave trade, not hinted at by Dorian, which as a wholesale type of activity would tend to have higher acceptable rates of 'attritiion'.)
I really like your idea in another post about visiting Seheron. The way Bull describes it is sounds like hell, although Fenris in DA2 had a different opinion as an adoptee of the Fog Warriors. If there is a hell or something like it, we need to visit it -- cause complex is good. I think it's entirely possible to do this and still have Tevinter as a primary location.
I was about to post something about the many faces of slavery.
If you want a brutal place, I suggest the mines at the Hundred Pillars. I know they probably exist, since the stuff mined there is valuable. imagine thousands of chained slaves spending their day hacking at super-hard rock under a hot sun, with overseers who care only about output and keeping their slaves in working condition. *Shudder*. Meanwhile, a skilled household slave in a merchant household in Minrathous might actually be somewhat comfortable, somewhat safe from being used up for blood magic, and have property of their own and a family.
I would like to see both kinds of places. Because, as you say, complex is good.
BTW, it wasn't me who suggested Seheron, but I wouldn't mind, as long as Minrathous is realized well (unlike, say, Val Royeaux in DAI).
One thing people do forget about why the need of slaves...there was no sanitary system in the past, who carry the dung? It was slaves who do the job...no free men will want to do that job. As much as people want to argue about how bad slavery is, if you living in the past, will you carry your own dung pile?
Slaves are used for these kind of things, dirty works, a job where people today don't even think about it because we live in different condition. We do not need to carry water from rivers, we got it already in our home. We don't need to care after we flush the toilet. We don't need to care many things in modern life. But in the past it is a big issue, who want to do all the works? It was the slaves...
You don't want to take a walk and step on someone ****...not only human, but cows, horses, and whatever who can ****...it was the slaves who clean everything up
Now Dragon Age is medieval themed game, i find it funny if they put so much modern thinking into it and making it lost it's sense and unrealistic
One thing people do forget about why the need of slaves...there was no sanitary system in the past, who carry the dung? It was slaves who do the job...no free men will want to do that job. As much as people want to argue about how bad slavery is, if you living in the past, will you carry your own dung pile?
Slaves are used for these kind of things, dirty works, a job where people today don't even think about it because we live in different condition. We do not need to carry water from rivers, we got it already in our home. We don't need to care after we flush the toilet. We don't need to care many things in modern life. But in the past it is a big issue, who want to do all the works? It was the slaves...
You don't want to take a walk and step on someone ****...not only human, but cows, horses, and whatever who can ****...it was the slaves who clean everything up
Now Dragon Age is medieval themed game, i find it funny if they put so much modern thinking into it and making it lost it's sense and unrealistic
Spoiler
You apparently put the reference in spoilers, but 'gong farmers' weren't always slaves. Night soil workers were often a specialized trade in many parts of the world, sometimes as in India being based on the caste system, and reinforcing the cultural stigmas of the latter:
https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Night_soil
I would guess that the profit potential in gong farming would be too tight to support slavery and such a job would require a high level of self-motivation to be worthwhile; although you could form an anarcho-syndacalist commune:
Yes, that's why i said earlier in other posts that in medieval time there is no distinction between slaves and workers/servants, and it also depends on cultures. In some place gong farmers are low class people, but in other places slaves who do the job.
Just imagine how much excrements are there everyday to be cleaned up. who want to do the job? Europe was not so busy as big cities in the east, Baghdad for example is a big city, a trade center for countries surround it, there are flocks of peoples in and out Baghdad from around the world..., it is an interesting question to ask "where are all the dung go...?"...it was carried away by slaves during the night, that is the system during that time.
Peoples love to make unfair judgments, comparing with modern time, comparing with modern western liberal values, we must accept that not all peoples in the world living in the same condition, especially peoples of the past. Medieval Europe was far worse than any eartern civilizations if want to say about it...
Yes, that's why i said earlier in other posts that in medieval time there is no distinction between slaves and workers/servants.
This is incorrect. Such distinctions have always been made. The difference might not mean much in practical terms from our modern point of view, but it was made. Slaves are not serfs, for instance. Slaves usually had no rights at all, while serfs had some. In the early Roman Empire, a master killing his slave was a non-issue, while killing your own serfs in medieval time was a breach of the social contract. Farmers in bondage couldn't leave the land allocated to them, while free farmers could. The servants of nobles were usually free and often indepedently educated - such positions were rather sought-after. If you ignore these distinctions because they seem mostly irrelevant from our modern viewpoint, you're making the same mistake you accuse others of.
It's not a matter of wanting (I'd rather it be set in Rivain, Antiva, Par Vollen, or one of those other northeastern countries), but the devs have heavily hinted that the story is shifting to Tevinter, so I'll just shrug and go along with it.
Orlais is honestly the nation I'm least interested in, yet DAI mostly centered around it, so I'm okay with the games being set anywhere else.
I don't want to be only in Tevinter, but it would be part of the playable areas. I want to go to Weishaupt, and Par Volen, and Seheron too beside Tevinter
I'm going to actually be really irritated with a Tevinter game.
Not because of Tevinter at all... but because of all the boorish combat obstacle courses my "ruling elite" character is going to have to participate in. I don't WANT to be a Tevinter noble running around with a group of misfits following the same cRPG tropes that have existed forever.
And if we play a slave... I'm going to probably snarl through all the improbable ways I "rise to power" since the only way to play a slave would be to overthrow the status quo (only a mage slave could conceivably rise to any sort of power).
"IF" they could make the Tevinter game I'd want... I think it would be a spectacular failure because not enough "small band runs around pew pewing monsters to greatness" .
I'm going to actually be really irritated with a Tevinter game.
Not because of Tevinter at all... but because of all the boorish combat obstacle courses my "ruling elite" character is going to have to participate in. I don't WANT to be a Tevinter noble running around with a group of misfits following the same cRPG tropes that have existed forever.
And if we play a slave... I'm going to probably snarl through all the improbable ways I "rise to power" since the only way to play a slave would be to overthrow the status quo (only a mage slave could conceivably rise to any sort of power).
"IF" they could make the Tevinter game I'd want... I think it would be a spectacular failure because not enough "small band runs around pew pewing monsters to greatness" .
I mean, our Inquisitors already had to mine their own metals, personally locate building materials for the organization, and pick their own flowers. Par for the course, unfortunately.
I was about to post something about the many faces of slavery.
If you want a brutal place, I suggest the mines at the Hundred Pillars. I know they probably exist, since the stuff mined there is valuable. imagine thousands of chained slaves spending their day hacking at super-hard rock under a hot sun, with overseers who care only about output and keeping their slaves in working condition. *Shudder*. Meanwhile, a skilled household slave in a merchant household in Minrathous might actually be somewhat comfortable, somewhat safe from being used up for blood magic, and have property of their own and a family.
I would like to see both kinds of places. Because, as you say, complex is good.
BTW, it wasn't me who suggested Seheron, but I wouldn't mind, as long as Minrathous is realized well (unlike, say, Val Royeaux in DAI).
Somewhat, safe, but not entirely:
http://dragonage.wik...A_Missing_Slave
http://dragonage.wik...agister's_Needs
This is incorrect. Such distinctions have always been made. The difference might not mean much in practical terms from our modern point of view, but it was made. Slaves are not serfs, for instance. Slaves usually had no rights at all, while serfs had some. In the early Roman Empire, a master killing his slave was a non-issue, while killing your own serfs in medieval time was a breach of the social contract. Farmers in bondage couldn't leave the land allocated to them, while free farmers could. The servants of nobles were usually free and often indepedently educated - such positions were rather sought-after. If you ignore these distinctions because they seem mostly irrelevant from our modern viewpoint, you're making the same mistake you accuse others of.
Alright, i make mistake on that part 
But still, medieval era in Europe is not shiny and beutiful liberal utopia....
What you'll need, then, is a Thedas strategy game. In such a game - as opposed to a story-driven rpg - that could be a real achievement. Thinking about it, I'd buy that game in an instant, if it was well-designed.
Isn't this a concept they had for taking the keeps originally?
I don't want to see whatever lazy job Bioware does for Minrathous. Val Royeaux and Kirkwall were both dreadfully dull cities, I don't trust them to do Minrathous justice.
I don't want to see whatever lazy job Bioware does for Minrathous. Val Royeaux and Kirkwall were both dreadfully dull cities, I don't trust them to do Minrathous justice.
I remember when it was announced that we could see, Val R. needless to say I was super excited. Seeing how, well, bad was Kirkwall designed I assumed the developers would make a huge come back.
When I first enter Val R. with my character, my jaw dropped and I turned to my husband and said, "This is a joke, right? This cannot be all they put in for the city." But it was.
I wanted to see The White Spire, The Grand Cathedral, wonders that we read and heard about. What did we get? An area about the size of Skyhold.
Hell we got to see Denerim and Kirkwall. Granted they were not perfect and needed work, but at least it felt like a darn city.
Best part about Denerium was being able to do quests. That was what I was hoping for when it came to Val R.
Years ago, I played Oblivion and there was the Imperial City. OMG, that city was awesome. Even though I played the game numerous times, I still got lost.
If Bioware plans on doing Minrathous they need to show all of it and allow the player to immerse themselves within.
Cookie cutting a small part out of a city just leaves me disappointed. Kind of like wanting a sexy man for Christmas but end up getting Richard Simmons.
Want, IDC, that's where the epilogue to the final DLC implies and we haven't been there yet.
I remember when it was announced that we could see, Val R. needless to say I was super excited. Seeing how, well, bad was Kirkwall designed I assumed the developers would make a huge come back.
When I first enter Val R. with my character, my jaw dropped and I turned to my husband and said, "This is a joke, right? This cannot be all they put in for the city." But it was.
I wanted to see The White Spire, The Grand Cathedral, wonders that we read and heard about. What did we get? An area about the size of Skyhold.
Hell we got to see Denerim and Kirkwall. Granted they were not perfect and needed work, but at least it felt like a darn city....[snip]
Years ago, I played Oblivion and there was the Imperial City. OMG, that city was awesome. Even though I played the game numerous times, I still got lost.
If Bioware plans on doing Minrathous they need to show all of it and allow the player to immerse themselves within.
Cookie cutting a small part out of a city just leaves me disappointed. Kind of like wanting a sexy man for Christmas but end up getting Richard Simmons.
It just occurred to me that we have also never seen any agricultural land or pasturage in the entire DA series. No grain fields, no cows; sheep are mentioned (bit of text near where you kill the dragon in Crestwood), but never seen. This though is also true of Bethasda's the Elder Scroll and Fallout series. Even when such things are represented the scale is completely off. I remember seeing the bits of farmland in Fallout: New Vegas and smirking. The food co-op group in F:NV (where the water from the NCR farm is being mis-appropriated) is shown raising crops in bits of garden plots that probably sum up to less than a big back yard.
I'm no land farmer, but had a good idea of the scope of land required for agriculture. Looking up this issue, in North America, under various Homestead Acts used to encourage migrant settlement of the mid-west (after the native Indians were pushed out), the common grant of land to a family was a Quarter Section of land. This amounts to about 1/4 of a square mile (1/4 x 2.6km2). * Basically, around 10 minutes to walk straight through an older style average size family farm.
Re: the Tevinter issue: in the US south a rich plantation owner would have 20+ slaves and about 600 acres or about 3.75 quarter sections -- although this would include a lot of 'bottom land' or highly productive valley and river delta land. So you could get lost.
I bring this up because I always had this thing, ever since F:NV, about having a fight sequence in something like a huge field of corn. Where you couldn't see clearly more than a few feet in front of you because of the 8 foot high stalks of corn every where. (I think there is a chase sequence in a Hitchcock film thru a corn field)
* Just as a matter of interest: "40 acres and a mule". http://www.blackpast...-acres-and-mule
Discussion about size and use of southern slave plantations:http://www.city-data...-cival-war.html
One thing people do forget about why the need of slaves...there was no sanitary system in the past, who carry the dung? It was slaves who do the job...no free men will want to do that job. As much as people want to argue about how bad slavery is, if you living in the past, will you carry your own dung pile?
Slaves are used for these kind of things, dirty works, a job where people today don't even think about it because we live in different condition. We do not need to carry water from rivers, we got it already in our home. We don't need to care after we flush the toilet. We don't need to care many things in modern life. But in the past it is a big issue, who want to do all the works? It was the slaves...
You don't want to take a walk and step on someone ****...not only human, but cows, horses, and whatever who can ****...it was the slaves who clean everything up
Now Dragon Age is medieval themed game, i find it funny if they put so much modern thinking into it and making it lost it's sense and unrealistic
Spoiler
Dragon age is high fantasy. It was never designed to follow a history. The best way to look at Dragon age is to buy the books and understand the world they built.
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