I have, but red templars aren't "brainwashed" just because you think you see similarities between red templars and reaper constructs.
Good job avoiding acknowledging the falsehood in your statement about not having doubts if you're indoctrinated. I can see this is going nowhere as you're adamant on being committed to your belief that red templars aren't being brainwashed.
Calpernia 100%
She is Cory's saving grace, to a point. She makes him more than some cackling Tevinter Magister hell bent on becoming a God for...reasons. I also think this fits well with what BW is trying to do in DAI by introducing Dorian to the fold. We've already got the "Tevinter Magisters are evilz" exterme from DA2. Now it's time to show a different side of that coin. Showing one Tevinter noble who isn't crazy isn't enough to showcase that. I needed more than just one good Tevinter, but something showing that they are human with all the flaws that come with it. So I consider Calpernia to be a good addition to that other side which actually gives Cory a bit more depth as well.
I have, but red templars aren't "brainwashed" just because you think you see similarities between red templars and reaper constructs.
Yes they are. The game even says so by pointing out that Samson manages to retain himself unlike the others. Sure they have peeks of themselves inside...just like those who were indoctrinated by the Reapers, but they are not 100% there.
I have, but red templars aren't "brainwashed" just because you think you see similarities between red templars and reaper constructs.
Except the ones that were force feed Red Lyrium and since Red Lyrium has the blight in it
Except the ones that were force feed Red Lyrium and since Red Lyrium has the blight in it
Grey Wardens have the blight but Cory had to manipulate them into undergoing a blood magic ritual to have absolute control over them and only their mages. Cory could whisper things in them to influence them but a person with high will power has the ability to not listen. Naturally when they become behemoths yes perhaps I'm more inclined to agree they'd be brainwashed but red templars strive to retain their mastery over their bodies.
Edit: Perhaps this is an issue of different opinion of the definition. Brainwash I see as being absolutely dictated and dominated by another being. You may consider it as being influenced, but if one has the ability to doubt, then it becomes a choice. A choice to believe in something or not, thus not brainwashed. Having faith in something is not the same as being brainwashed to believe in something. Red Templars aren't being forced to believe in anything.
Secondly, the existence of an exception like Samson stands to reason that others could be like him. Just because you find such an offensive notion that red templars would willingly become red templars doesn't take away from the fact that it is a reality. Some of the red templars chose to follow Cory. Like the Knight Captain Denam, like those in Samson's short story.
Calpernia's motivations for supporting Corypheus are just much more believable. They don't trust eachother fully, but they cooperate for their common goal (restoring Tevinter to it's former glory), although their plans for doing this differ.
Whereas Samson joined Corypheus because... why? Because he wanted a better death for his templars? lulz
Samson what to be used. it's not hard to understand.
Having played both, I ultimately like Calpernia better. I find she has both full agency and a sympathetic cause.
Samson.
Considering how you meet him briefly in DA 2 and to see how much further he has fallen is interesting. Also since my character only romances Cullen, going with Samson makes sense.
I like Calpernia more, but I hate siding with the Templars. 
lol Calpernia is a much more nuanced, and intersting character than both Samson and Corypheus.
Well yes she's a Tevinter patriot in spite of being held as a slave who both wants to both save and make Tevinter better, she also unlike the other underlings truely commands Corypheus's respect and he truly regrets that modern tevinter wastes the potential of people like her simply because of her origins, something that wouldn't have happened in his day and regrets what he will have to do when she drinks from the well.
Its also clear that she also commands the respect of her followers who freely follow her orders with out being tricked or force fed red lyrium and reacts poorly to the mistreatment of slaves. In generally she's both more fleshed out in one game than Samson was in two games and her route also fleshes out Corpyheus and his motivations unlike Samson's route, so you can sort of understand his motivations though its clear he's a monster that needs to be stopped.
Slightly off topic: since we are probably going to Tevinter in the next game, what are the odds that Calpernia will return? Based on what we know about her, do you think she will support Dorian's and Maevaris Tilani's reformist group?
And does Samson have chance of surviving his red lyrium addiction?
The odds of her reappearance in 4 are most probable, especially since she never officially dies in Inquisition. I think having her support Dorian and Maevaris would be a little too boring as a storyline. D and M want to reform a broken and corrupt system. C, I think, would want to tear that system down completely and build a different and better one. To this end, I would not see D and M supporting C's actions. They would condemn her, if nothing else than to appear sane to the rest of the Magisterium and hold whatever support they can for their own efforts. I can also see D and C getting into it over how best to reform and rebuild. D would argue that she shouldn't oppose him because he's working to change things from the top down and inside out. C would argue that D had been doing that before as an altus, but then chose to become a part of that corrupt system, and that his efforts are doomed to failure because of it. She will point to her own successes from outside the system, and argue on the basis of positive results in a timely manner. I hope the Inquisitor has the chance to reconcile these two sides.
I think it's a given that Samon will survive the red lyrium addiction. Though he may still suffer and become a feeble madman like how the epilogue shows a lyrium addled Cullen.
Calpernia was the most interesting! I like Samson but after redeeming him in DA2 it was odd to see him as a villain when he fought beside my Hawke against Meredith. Calpernia not only has an interesting past, but it connects better to the end of DAI in which we will head to Tevinter next.
Samson all day everyday. Deep and sympathetic character and voiced by Fenris (XD).
Samson all day everyday. Deep and sympathetic character and voiced by Fenris (XD).
So was your mosaic translator dwarf in Skyhold (Gatsi Sturhald) lol loved that voice!
I think Calpernia is a better choice in starting a Tevinter Imperium revolution then Dorian.
I think Calpernia is a better choice in starting a Tevinter Imperium revolution then Dorian.
I could see him finding an ally in her if we succeeded in redeeming her.
Gatsi was voiced by Gideon Emery?! Wow, I'm astonished that I never picked up on that.
Gatsi was voiced by Gideon Emery?! Wow, I'm astonished that I never picked up on that.
I had to look it up first time he spoke. Once Gideon did an American voice in a vid and I thought it sounded like Gatsi and it seems it was him.
Your post seems to be on the premise that the Red Templars "chose" their fate. The people they were, who knew the sacrifices they'd make when joining the Templar order, would very likely not have wanted to be used as a darkspawn thrall to massacre the people they swore to protect. Nothing respectable about that.
I think that most of them were corrupted and twisted to Corypheus's cause, but there are certainly some who willingly joined him and corrupted their fellows: Samson certainly wasn't alone in this. Lucius and Denam spring to mind as do some of the Kirkwall templars who must have known how dangerous the stuff was after the Meredith fiasco but consumed the lyrium anyway in their desire for power.
While the Templar order certainly attracts noble souls, it is also a magnet for those who lust for power (as we all too often saw in Dragon Age 2). For many peasants in Thedas, joining the Templar order is perhaps the only way that they'll ever achieve a position of power. They're able to control other individuals, are capable of doing things they were never able to do previously and have the option of rising up the ranks of the order if they perform well with the chance of attaining positions of leadership in the upper echelons.
It thus makes sense why some of the Templars would willingly take the red lyrium even knowing all the side-effects - those individuals who lusted after power and influence would have been enthralled by the idea of gaining near unlimited power in the form of new abilities and the favour granted by a new (and more tangible) god that would achieve apotheosis.
On top of such individuals would be those ailing Templars and ex-Templars whose faith was shattered (just as Samson's was) after they learned how little the Chantry valued them as individuals - lyrium junkies and has-beens suffering from the unpleasant psychological side-effects of lyrium overdose, lyrium addiction and/or lyrium withdrawal who were lured in by the promise of a new purpose and a revitalisation.
Calpernia. Not only does she look better on the cliff, she chose to fight for a country, or for her version of what Tevinter is or could be, in which she was enslaved; that will have me intrigued, and I tend to find mages more enjoyable than sleepers.
I think
Samson > Calpernia
Under Her Skin > Before the Dawn
Samson was much more tragic, but less cliche, than Calpernia. But the chilling atmosphere of Calpernia's Shrine was more artful than the slugfest of Samson's, and Calpernia's master was more tragic than Maddox.
Calpernia 100%
She is Cory's saving grace, to a point. She makes him more than some cackling Tevinter Magister hell bent on becoming a God for...reasons. I also think this fits well with what BW is trying to do in DAI by introducing Dorian to the fold. We've already got the "Tevinter Magisters are evilz" exterme from DA2. Now it's time to show a different side of that coin. Showing one Tevinter noble who isn't crazy isn't enough to showcase that. I needed more than just one good Tevinter, but something showing that they are human with all the flaws that come with it. So I consider Calpernia to be a good addition to that other side which actually gives Cory a bit more depth as well.
Yes they are. The game even says so by pointing out that Samson manages to retain himself unlike the others. Sure they have peeks of themselves inside...just like those who were indoctrinated by the Reapers, but they are not 100% there.
The line between controlled and "free" is very blurred in the case of the Red Templars. I don't think we can say definitively how much their service to Corypheus was due to mind control and how much it was due to their own choices.
Excerpt from the journal of a red templar:
Writing has become difficult. There is a sharp pain in my hands when I move them, like shards of glass in my knuckles. When I look in the mirror, I don't recognize myself. I remember when Lieutenant Erasmus got this way. He looked like a living corpse, his complexion a facsimile of the blush of life. Instead of blood, it was pulsing red lyrium. It killed him and kept him alive at the same time.
I don't want this anymore. It gave me power, but it goes against everything I was taught. Sometimes I am swept along with the fervor, but in quiet, I remember what I was, and what I believed.
Some say Imshael can cure us. He can pull the red lyrium from our bodies, if we ask him. But there's a price. No price would be too high. I just want to be myself again.
For example here this red templar notes that he/she feels caught up in the fanaticism sometimes, is that psychology or the influence of red lyrium (and how can we know?), yet he/she also seems to be contemplating betrayal and removal of the red lyrium.
It seems a far cry from indoctrination which was far more absolute, I only recall people trying to escape indoctrination by killing themselves and that was only for the supremely strong willed (and with Shepard's influence of course).
I also have a sight biased reason for choosing the Templars too that I forgot to add earlier, besides my already biasedly preferring Calpernia for her amazing character. I absolutely love Ser Barris (and would romance him over Cullen any day!) and promoting him later in the game is just wonderful! Fiona does nothing. She's not even in the final battle, but Ser Barris is and I felt truly united with my allies.
@Lumix, I think we've been through this before. Or was it someone else? Anyway thanks for that excerpt, indoctrination sounds about right for them. As many of the indoctrinated folks in ME retained some portion of themselves as well. Such as Rana Thanoptis. The only ones truly controlled were The Collectors. It took Saren getting "upgraded" Reaper Tech for Sovereign to fully control him. But before then, Saren was himself to a certain extent, yet still under Reaper control. Also, many of the indoctrinated people throughout the series are capable of describing what their symptoms are like and express displeasure about it. heck, TIM went right up to the end of the game believing he wasn't indoctrinated and almost got the upper hand over the Reapers. But he was still under their control. I would hardly describe TIM as being free anymore than the Red Templars. Overall, I don't care for Cerberus, period, not in medieval times or in space.
I also have a sight biased reason for choosing the Templars too that I forgot to add earlier. I absolutely love Ser Barris (and romance him over Cullen any day!) and promoting him later in the game is just wonderful! Fiona does nothing. She's not even in the final battle, but Ser Barris is and I felt truly united with my allies.
Yes! Ser Barris is just too awesome to pass up. He actually makes you feel like you've made a real choice in the game. You get to read about what he's doing out there in Thedas, He aids more Mages than Fiona and her so called rebellion, and he's out there fighting at the end. Why wasn't this man a LI?! 
Yes! Ser Barris is just too awesome to pass up. He actually makes you feel like you've made a real choice in the game. You get to read about what he's doing out there in Thedas, He aids more Mages than Fiona and her so called rebellion, and he's out there fighting at the end. Why wasn't this man a LI?!
Yep! It felt amazing to see Ser Barris, Leliana and Cullen all fighting in the war with your Templar allies. Reminded me of the Archdemon fight with all your allies from the treaties. My Amell had her First Enchanter and Eamon and the elves and dwarves all by her side.
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