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the franchise have danger of extinction...the cause is the protagonist and story


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#101
berelinde

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NO TO ALL OF YOUR POST! The Warden shouldn't die. At all. I went through too much crap to watch my Warden die horribly. IF THE WARDEN DIED AS I WATCHED MY LI MOURN MY LOST, ID JUST BE DONE, BECUASE FOR ME ITD ALISTAIR AND THATS JUST TOO MUCH TO HANDLE! Plus the Warden can already be dead due to the lack of taking the DA. So I don't think so, people need to get over the fact that the Warden can be dead, though my Warden took the DA, so she's still alive and kicking. And if they killed the Warden, I'd totally 100% just make people's choices matter none at all. And this if people took the DA or used Alistair/Loghian as the sacrifice.

The only way Dragon Age characters get to live a long, happy life is if they stop appearing in sequels. Every time they return, there is a new chance for them to die. THAT is what people need to keep in mind when they ask for the return of the Warden.

 

This is Dragon Age. The most likely "closure" a character will receive is a dramatic death.

 

Incidentally, that is why I hope that the characters I love don't return. It isn't a lack of regard for them. It's the understanding that if folks push hard enough, they will only succeed in getting their favorites killed off.


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#102
AresKeith

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The only way Dragon Age characters get to live a long, happy life is if they stop appearing in sequels. Every time they return, there is a new chance for them to die. THAT is what people need to keep in mind when they ask for the return of the Warden.

 

This is Dragon Age. The most likely "closure" a character will receive is a dramatic death.

 

Incidentally, that is why I hope that the characters I love don't return. It isn't a lack of regard for them. It's the understanding that if folks push hard enough, they will only succeed in getting their favorites killed off.

 

I knew the DA team were disciples of GRRM :P



#103
MonkeyLungs

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The franchise have danger of continuing to awesome.


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#104
Arvaarad

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well see is posible créate the two storys in a game for the hero of ferelden or warden orlesian but bioware/EA decide créate a story mediocre and easy for have minor cost of production....the quality is very ignored in the last games of bioware....

 

We've just spent half a page discussing how it isn't a minor thing to do. Sorry that this is my rant button, but it really irritates me. No one would go up to a civil engineer and say "that bridge in another city can raise and lower to let ships pass, why wasn't that feature added to this bridge? Sure this bridge is much longer and the surrounding landscape is totally different, but if they could do it so could you! You must be lazy!"

 

But for some reason it's totally acceptable to tell developers what is and is not easy to do in their software. And even accuse them of laziness based on those wild-ass guesses about what's easy to do. For whatever reason, people assume they're experts in software even when they really, really aren't. Even if they defer to experts in every other field, they'll argue and fight to the bitter end when they're talking to developers. Because some random "ideas man" knows better than people who do this for a living.

 

It boggles my mind that this still happens. Surely people can look at how every single game developer who gets big starts to slow down. And maybe, if everyone does it, it isn't a vast conspiracy of AAA developers to be lazy and sell out. Maybe it's a fundamental property of software development. As a project gets bigger, you have to slow down.

 

But no, it's easier to assume that the people who regularly pull 80 hour weeks, for half the normal software developer salary, are lazy.


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#105
berelinde

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Technical and logistical discussions are well and good, but ultimately, the developers are going to tell the story they want to tell. The only means that we, as fans, have of contributing to this decision is by buying or declining to buy the game. The developers have stated that they intend to feature a new protagonist each game and that they have no intention of bringing back the HoF. Tantrums will not inspire them to reevaluate that decision.



#106
Greetsme

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I have no idea why they had to kill off Shepard.



#107
AlanC9

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I have no idea what Shepard has to do with this topic.

#108
KaiserShep

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I have no idea why they had to kill off Shepard.

 

Well that's what people get for picking Control and Synthesis and not getting high EMS Destroy :P


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#109
themikefest

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I have no idea why they had to kill off Shepard.

Mine wasn't killed. She's currently in Vancouver having drinks with Samantha. Excellent


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#110
GoldenGail3

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The only way Dragon Age characters get to live a long, happy life is if they stop appearing in sequels. Every time they return, there is a new chance for them to die. THAT is what people need to keep in mind when they ask for the return of the Warden.
 
This is Dragon Age. The most likely "closure" a character will receive is a dramatic death.
 
Incidentally, that is why I hope that the characters I love don't return. It isn't a lack of regard for them. It's the understanding that if folks push hard enough, they will only succeed in getting their favorites killed off.


I know, and I don't want my Warden to return. She should stay in Codexs, though I'd go insane if my Warden died though.

#111
Navoletti

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i hope and i claim for much months,years,etc for the warden back and the haters of DAO please stop of use poor excuses for the lack of him...

 

hawke have a big treatment but the warden have a mediocre treatment...this is the problem...

 

 

now the franchise have very danger of extinction,the result say this...witcher 3 for jostick awards is the game of the year,and much magazines in the comparison talk of the poor story and quality of DAI compared with the witcher 3.

 

 

the hero of withcer series geralt have abig personality and i think the only way for reach the state of geralt of rivia is the hero of ferelden or the warden orlesian if the warden die.

 

this happen now,i hope the critical patcher talk of this danger in the franchise dragon age...they lose the way...



#112
Youknow

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I know, and I don't want my Warden to return. She should stay in Codexs, though I'd go insane if my Warden died though.

But they have to die some time assuming that time keeps moving forward in the series. 

Personally, the HoF doesn't need to come back. What needs to happen is that the HoF needs to be left alone. Even having mention of the HoF is a bit much. Unless you're in Ferelden, no one should really be talking about him/her. I mean, part of what makes the HoF the HoF is that they did something that was great for Ferelden. Heck, I thought they were hinting at that with Sera that some people didn't even KNOW anything about THE Hero of Ferelden. Generational gaps are funny like that. 



#113
GoldenGail3

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But they have to die some time assuming that time keeps moving forward in the series. 

Personally, the HoF doesn't need to come back. What needs to happen is that the HoF needs to be left alone. Even having mention of the HoF is a bit much. Unless you're in Ferelden, no one should really be talking about him/her. I mean, part of what makes the HoF the HoF is that they did something that was great for Ferelden. Heck, I thought they were hinting at that with Sera that some people didn't even KNOW anything about THE Hero of Ferelden. Generational gaps are funny like that.

You know what (I made a pun). I agree, the HOF should be left alone. But I want to know that she had a happy ending at the very least.
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#114
Youknow

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i hope and i claim for much months,years,etc for the warden back and the haters of DAO please stop of use poor excuses for the lack of him...

 

hawke have a big treatment but the warden have a mediocre treatment...this is the problem...

 

 

now the franchise have very danger of extinction,the result say this...witcher 3 for jostick awards is the game of the year,and much magazines in the comparison talk of the poor story and quality of DAI compared with the witcher 3.

 

 

the hero of withcer series geralt have abig personality and i think the only way for reach the state of geralt of rivia is the hero of ferelden or the warden orlesian if the warden die.

 

this happen now,i hope the critical patcher talk of this danger in the franchise dragon age...they lose the way...

The Warden did not get bad treatment. You can't do much with it. Even ignoring the choices in game that the player made on their adventure, the Warden at base can be...

 

The Warden can be: 

 

Male or female, 

Dwarf, human or elf, 

Rogue, warrior, or mage, 

Nobility, dalish, a commoner, or from the circle. 

Has 1 child (or 2... Possibly 3+ children because you could have sex with say the women in Dwarf Noble opening, that one elf chick in the forest, and then Morrigan) or have no child. 

Is the mistress to King Alistar. 

Is the consort to Queen Anora. 

Is an chancellor to Denerim, 

Returned to Deep Roads/Orza, 

Returned to Forest, 

Left with Sten, 

Dead, 

Alive and disappeared and unaccounted for, 

spokesmen for elves, 

went back to the circle...

 

It goes on and on. 

 

Now Hawke...

 

Male of Female

Human

Regained Nobility

Fled Kirkwall

Went into hiding because of the worry about the Exalted March that didn't happen. 

Possibly has a sibling that has a different occupational choice from them. 

Has 1 of 3 set personalities that were displayed IN Dragon Age 2. 

 

Hawke is and was considerably more grounded than the Warden, or even the Inquisitor for that matter. 



#115
GoldenGail3

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The Warden did not get bad treatment. You can't do much with it. Even ignoring the choices in game that the player made on their adventure, the Warden at base can be...
 
The Warden can be: 
 
Male or female, 
Dwarf, human or elf, 
Rogue, warrior, or mage, 
Nobility, dalish, a commoner, or from the circle. 
Has 1 child (or 2... Possibly 3+ children because you could have sex with say the women in Dwarf Noble opening, that one elf chick in the forest, and then Morrigan) or have no child. 
Is the mistress to King Alistar. 
Is the consort to Queen Anora. 
Is an chancellor to Denerim, 
Returned to Deep Roads/Orza, 
Returned to Forest, 
Left with Sten, 
Dead, 
Alive and disappeared and unaccounted for, 
spokesmen for elves, 
went back to the circle...
 
It goes on and on. 
 
 
Male of Female
Human
Regained Nobility
Fled Kirkwall
Went into hiding because of the worry about the Exalted March that didn't happen. 
Possibly has a sibling that has a different occupational choice from them. 
Has 1 of 3 set personalities that were displayed IN Dragon Age 2. 
 
Hawke is and was considerably more grounded than the Warden, or even the Inquisitor for that matter.


Are chu a Hawke fan?

#116
Youknow

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I'm not really a Hawkes fan. I just realize the problem with writing a character as variable as the Warden. It's simple not feasible to give the warden a satisfying role where they could appear again without making it so dreadfully bland that it'd be better off not being there. 



#117
Navoletti

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user youknown....yeah much choices but nothin is imposible...they need work hard yeah but the games with more work in the final result have big quality..they have the keep choices,they need work in two story that we talk in the before pages...story hero of ferelden or story of warden orlesian,they need use different dialogues for each status and problema solved...

c mon much people here hate the inovation only say"is imposible" or is hard,programation problem and bla bla bla,guys what happen example if Einstein have the same ideas of much users of here and the only response of einsetin is imposible discover......hard....

 

 

stop of use excuses,bioware/Ea ignore the warden that they have a idea of new protagonist...but this protagonist not have feeling for the people...and this is danger bioware....mi advertise...future of dragon age franchise have danger if they think in other story boring with new protagonist...

 

warden is the only way for catch the popularity other time...

 

for now witcher series  destory the franchise of DAO in terms of story,quality and protagonist.



#118
GoldenGail3

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I'm not really a Hawkes fan. I just realize the problem with writing a character as variable as the Warden. It's simple not feasible to give the warden a satisfying role where they could appear again without making it so dreadfully bland that it'd be better off not being there.


:P Oh. You could easily say the same about Bethama's Dragonborn. But good point there.

#119
Youknow

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user youknown....yeah much choices but nothin is imposible...they need work hard yeah but the games with more work in the final result have big quality..they have the keep,the need work in two story that we talk in the before pages...story hero of ferelden or story of warden orlesian,they need use different dialogues for each status and problema solved...

c mon much people here hate the inovation only say"is imposible" or is hard,programation problem and bla bla bla,guys what happen example if Einstein have the same ideas of much users of here and the only response of einsetin is imposible discover......hard....

 

 

stop of use excuses,bioware/Ea ignore the warden that they have a idea of new protagonist...but this protagonist not have feeling for the people...and this is danger bioware....mi advertise...future of dragon age franchise have danger is they think in story boring with new protagonist...

 

warden is the only way for catch the popularity other time...

 

for now witcher series  destory the franchise of DAO in terms of story,quality and protagonist.

It's not impossible in the sense that it's not possible to do, but the amount of branching would be silly to have him/her come back. If the Warden were to come back, Dragon Age 2 was the chance they had to bring him/her back. As of now, the Warden has been gone from Dragon Age as a primary character for 2 games. Bring them back is all sorts of awkward at this point. It's not that simple to use different dialogue for each status because there are several things that can be done with different Wardens. For instance, let's say that my Warden went back to Orzamaar. It's incredibly awkward that DA:I is saying my HoF is doing Grey Warden business when, in my mind, I chose for him to go back to Orzamaar forever to eliminate the darkspawn from the Deep Roads forever, which IS something that makes sense for a GW to do by virtue that it is combating darkspawn. And yet... Inquisition has him doing "secret missions" for god knows what. It feels like it puts a character that I felt had a satisfying conclusion into an area of unrest. Compare that to my human noble female that DID just disappear at the end of DA:Os, and it makes it very difficult to continue a game with 1) 1 went back to Orzamaar and 2) 1 disappeared from sight and was never seen again. That literally means that neither of my HoFs should be seen because they left or went back somewhere that no one visits often or knows about. That's the issue with the warden. The starting adventure point could be literally anywhere, and some of them would have impossible explanations that stretch the suspension of disbelief to levels that make it impossible for me to agree with. 

 

I'm not making excuses for them. I'm actually giving a reason this time around. 

 

And the thing about the Witcher... Geralt honestly has more in common with Hawke, and EA/Bioware messed up big time with DA:2, so their big chance of doing like the Witcher was ruined by having DA:2 rushed out / made into a full game. 



#120
GoldenGail3

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user youknown....yeah much choices but nothin is imposible...they need work hard yeah but the games with more work in the final result have big quality..they have the keep choices,they need work in two story that we talk in the before pages...story hero of ferelden or story of warden orlesian,they need use different dialogues for each status and problema solved...
c mon much people here hate the inovation only say"is imposible" or is hard,programation problem and bla bla bla,guys what happen example if Einstein have the same ideas of much users of here and the only response of einsetin is imposible discover......hard....
 
 
stop of use excuses,bioware/Ea ignore the warden that they have a idea of new protagonist...but this protagonist not have feeling for the people...and this is danger bioware....mi advertise...future of dragon age franchise have danger if they think in other story boring with new protagonist...
 
warden is the only way for catch the popularity other time...
 
for now witcher series  destory the franchise of DAO in terms of story,quality and protagonist.


I think you are too attached to the idea of the Warden. You need to Deal. With. It. Really, becuase the HOF will get killed off if they ever returned.

#121
AresKeith

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user youknown....yeah much choices but nothin is imposible...they need work hard yeah but the games with more work in the final result have big quality..they have the keep choices,they need work in two story that we talk in the before pages...story hero of ferelden or story of warden orlesian,they need use different dialogues for each status and problema solved...

c mon much people here hate the inovation only say"is imposible" or is hard,programation problem and bla bla bla,guys what happen example if Einstein have the same ideas of much users of here and the only response of einsetin is imposible discover......hard....

 

 

stop of use excuses,bioware/Ea ignore the warden that they have a idea of new protagonist...but this protagonist not have feeling for the people...and this is danger bioware....mi advertise...future of dragon age franchise have danger if they think in other story boring with new protagonist...

 

warden is the only way for catch the popularity other time...

 

for now witcher series  destory the franchise of DAO in terms of story,quality and protagonist.

 

Bioware should bring back your warden in your game just so they can kill him off  :devil:



#122
Nixou

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Personally, the HoF doesn't need to come back. What needs to happen is that the HoF needs to be left alone. Even having mention of the HoF is a bit much. Unless you're in Ferelden, no one should really be talking about him/her

 

 

Which is why putting part of Inquisition's story In Ferelden created the whole Warden kerfuffle in the first place: DA2's story involved Kirkwall: the Warden being absent was perfectly logical (if anything, it's the overabundance of cameos by the Warden's former associates that was problematic); Asunder and Masked Empire happened in Orlais, once again, the Warden not being involved made sense; the Alistair-centric Comics narrated events happening in Antiva, Tevinter and Qunari lands: once again: no Warden, no problem.

 

Then Inquisition came and the Warden's not here to defend his/her own home turf.

 

And the thing is, it's not the Warden being absent that ruffles me most, personally (Not only do I prefer the One protag per game formula used in this series and recognize that Inquisition's plot wouldn't make sense if the Warden had been present in Ferelden, but as I stated elsewhere, my own worldstate's Warden is a very selfish person: leaving her post to seek a way to increase her lifespan is absolutely in character, so I for one do not suffer from a dissonant narrative here): it's the fact that the Fereldans still adore their AWOL HoF: a hole appear in the sky, a Darkspawn Magister starts tearing their country apart with troops powered by blighted lyrium, and their great national hero whose goddamned JOB is to deal with this kind of stuff is nowhere to be found. Why aren't they pissed? Why aren't the griffon statues that litter the country defaced with "DESERTER" carved on these? I would have expected the Fereldan people to feel betrayed by the HoF leaving on a personal quest at the time they needed them most. But nope: they still cherish their Great Fereldan Hero™

 

***

 

Bioware should bring back your warden in your game just so they can kill him off

 

 

 Welcome to the club  ;)



#123
berelinde

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i hope and i claim for much months,years,etc for the warden back and the haters of DAO please stop of use poor excuses for the lack of him...

 

hawke have a big treatment but the warden have a mediocre treatment...this is the problem...

 

 

now the franchise have very danger of extinction,the result say this...witcher 3 for jostick awards is the game of the year,and much magazines in the comparison talk of the poor story and quality of DAI compared with the witcher 3.

 

 

the hero of withcer series geralt have abig personality and i think the only way for reach the state of geralt of rivia is the hero of ferelden or the warden orlesian if the warden die.

 

this happen now,i hope the critical patcher talk of this danger in the franchise dragon age...they lose the way...

Famous people should be allowed a graceful retirement. They should not be paraded around until they become a mockery of their former glory. Elizabeth I of England enjoyed the longest reign of any English monarch before Victoria, but toward the end of her life, she became a joke, even among her own subjects. Yes, she is remembered as a historically significant ruler, but sadly, she outlived her own relevance. How do you think she wanted to be remembered?

 

220px-Darnley_stage_3.jpg or 220px-Elizabeth_I_portrait%2C_Marcus_Ghe

 

Let the Hof retire with dignity.



#124
Arvaarad

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user youknown....yeah much choices but nothin is imposible...they need work hard yeah but the games with more work in the final result have big quality..they have the keep choices,they need work in two story that we talk in the before pages...story hero of ferelden or story of warden orlesian,they need use different dialogues for each status and problema solved...
c mon much people here hate the inovation only say"is imposible" or is hard,programation problem and bla bla bla,guys what happen example if Einstein have the same ideas of much users of here and the only response of einsetin is imposible discover......hard....

This is apparently a novel concept, but games require money to make.

Universities paid Einstein to work on scientific discoveries. We don't pay game companies to research new shaders or hair physics. We pay them for games, at a price that hasn't kept up with inflation. So they can innovate, but it can't eat up all of their budget.

If something is challenging, it isn't just hard, it's also expensive. Engineers, designers, writers, producers, and QA all need to eat. If they work on a project for twice as many years, you have to pay them twice as much.

The issue with the Warden isn't just that it's hard. The problem is that it's hard enough to push the game way overbudget. People hear budgeting and they think "ugh chasing profits", but developers need to have a salary, just like the rest of us. RPGs require huge teams and many years to complete, and everyone on that team needs to get paid.

Videogame companies fold left and right these days. And, like the price of games, videogame developer salaries have not kept pace with the rest of software developers' salaries. Their recruiters have to work extra hard to get competent people. Because, sure, every teenager dreams of working in videogames. But people with software experience look at the videogame industry and think "ok, I'd have to learn to live on half my current salary, and resign myself to never seeing my family for large portions of the year, and expose myself to internet blowhards who think I'm a money-grubbing couch potato despite all that..." Personally, I went from dreaming of a job in videogames to actively avoiding it, once I started seeing it from a software engineer's perspective. Most game studios are already so close to the margin that a single unprofitable game can wreck them. They have no space left to tighten their belts.

You're straight-up guessing that the required money to include the Warden would be offset by increased sales. Actual software developers are telling you why that's probably not the case. Sure, there might be a bump in sales (though DA:I already sold like hotcakes, so it's close to the saturation point). But not enough of a bump in sales to pay off the massive, massive amount of money that including the Warden would cost. And there's no guarantee it would actually increase sales. If many people had their headcanons violated by the way the Warden was handled, they might leave the series for good. Or what if they're tired of the Warden? So it's this extremely expensive feature, that could have the potential of being a disaster if fans didn't like it.
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#125
AlanC9

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i
now the franchise have very danger of extinction,the result say this...witcher 3 for jostick awards is the game of the year,and much magazines in the comparison talk of the poor story and quality of DAI compared with the witcher 3.
 


This is silly. Even if you believe those articles, DA:I with the Warden instead of the Inquisitor wouldn't have done any better in that comparison.