103 réponses à ce sujet

[Kemor]

Good to know Isaantia, can't wait to read it then

[CanadianGuy1975]

To be fair I think Rowan technically died when she was forced to be the queen after Kaitriel's death. At that point the Rowan warrior women of the novel was dead and only the stoic (spelling?!?) Rowan the emotionaless queen, the pilar to Maric. Her physical death sure occured latter but really the body catching up to the soul at that point.

[Wayne_Carrion]

I think you are right, Rowan sacrificed herself (body & soul) for duty. She died inside when she acknowledged her loss of Loghain. With both Rowan & Maric so damaged, Cailan became the flawed character shown in the video.

[Isaantia]

There is another possibility for the Rowan illness that comes to light in the Calling. But that might just be Maric reaching for straws and denying the truth of things.



So bummed about Rowan. It would have been so awesome to meet her in game.

[Wayne_Carrion]

Rowan was definitely a strikingly powerful and attractive woman. However, Maric was too insecure to appreciate and tolerate a woman like Rowan. Loghain was a more secure male and that was the reason that there was so much electricity between them. The sparring match between Loghain and Rowan was so passionate, like a tango. Hopefully, we'll meet another woman of Rowan's quality, if not in the original campaign then in one of the expansions.

[Quercus]

Guess I'm the only 1 who prevers katriel over Rowan, her character had me in its hold, an cold spy that started to become warm-hearted and falling inlove. I was really downstrucked at the part where Maric killed Katriel, He shouldnt have killed her, cause the woman who betraited them was already gone, there was only a warmhearted Katriel now. he could have send her to the chantry to repend or w/e.

[Phoenixblight]

Maric had shown his regret in the Calling especially in a certain part of the book.

[Isaantia]

Shiroukai wrote...

Guess I'm the only 1 who prevers katriel over Rowan, her character had me in its hold, an cold spy that started to become warm-hearted and falling inlove. I was really downstrucked at the part where Maric killed Katriel, He shouldnt have killed her, cause the woman who betraited them was already gone, there was only a warmhearted Katriel now. he could have send her to the chantry to repend or w/e.

Regardless of the love part, she still killed over half of Maric's army. She went through with the plan and opened the gate, even though she knew she was being crossed. Granted she was a lifesaver in the Deep Roads, but it was her idea to head down there in the first place. She more than deserved to die. I just couldn't believe what a weakling Maric was about it. He's the freaking King to be! There's more than two women in the country isn't there? I mean come on. <_<

[Quercus]

The reason why she did it was because of a contract and her honour which was on stake, and during that moment kinda started her change. She felt a lot of guilt because of that, even though she wasnt the 1 who killed over half Maric's army as you stated. Because of her doubts and feelings she chose a different path that leaded into saving Maric which eventually ended with Ferelden being freed and Maric on the throne. Without her action this would never had happened in the first place.

If there is someone I dislike then it's Loghain, who double crossed Maric with his supreme knowledge on how a king should act. Which was a damn good reason for Rowan not to forgive him.

Modifié par Shiroukai, 20 octobre 2009 - 09:54 .

[Wayne_Carrion]

Shiroukai, I grew to care about Katriel, and was sorry to see Maric kill her. She did change, although too late to undo what she had done. However, as a character, I found her to be a more typical portrayal of women. It's common to see women as mages, rogues and bards. Rowan was a warrior. And she was a great warrior. And there was no doubt that she was a passionate woman. There are a lot of women like Rowan in the world, but they are rarely presented to us. And she did not deserve to be betrayed by Maric. And unfortunately we are going to get more mages and bards in the game. Two mages in fact. Where the woman warrion??

[Eshaye]

Wayne_Carrion wrote...

I think you are right, Rowan sacrificed herself (body & soul) for duty. She died inside when she acknowledged her loss of Loghain. With both Rowan & Maric so damaged, Cailan became the flawed character shown in the video.

I thought that too after reading The Stolen Throne, but at the end it's mentioned that Rowan and Maric did indeed grow to love each other fondly, not with the same passion they shared for others but still they were partners. in The Calling Rowan is described as being a good and attentive mother to Cailan.

If anything I think Cailan suffered a bit from an absent father in his early childhood and then possibly thought of his parents as these amazing heroes having these interesting and grandiose adventures and becoming engrossed in being just like them but have no concept of the reality of it all.

So anyway I think Rowan may have suffered for a while but she was still happy as a mother and did love in her own way, so I don't think it's sadness and regret that killed her.

[Wayne_Carrion]

Well, I haven't read the Calling yet, but from what others have indicated, there some insight provided regarding the relationship of Rowan and Maric. But I still have to believe that Rowan still felt the betrayal of Maric and the loss of Loghain.

[Isaantia]

Wayne_Carrion wrote...

Well, I haven't read the Calling yet, but from what others have indicated, there some insight provided regarding the relationship of Rowan and Maric. But I still have to believe that Rowan still felt the betrayal of Maric and the loss of Loghain.

I don't think it was so much betrayal of Maric as it was loss of Loghain.

[Taltherion]

Generally, I liked the book ... nice read for a rainy Sunday afternoon. Nothing too sophisticated and a good way to get some background on the world of the game.



But ... Mr Gaider seems to have some obvious inspirations ...



Am I the only one who was very much reminded of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time when Rowan, Loghain, Maric and Katriel travelled the "Deep Roads" ... sounds very similar to "the Ways" and the Trolloc encounters in Jordan's books.



Legion of the Dead ... dwarves who are seeking death to attone for a crime and to clean the stain on their family names? Reminds me of the Warhammer Slayers ...

[Quercus]

I kinda agree with you Talth, but even if he did found his inspirations from the WoT, then he sure brought it originaly. Cause the dwarfs are the ones who made the Deep Roads, since they wanna live underground, the only way of traveling would have been digging roads. While it was necessary for the Dwaves, it was gift made by humans for the Ogiers and not necessary.

[Eshaye]

I don't know I was thinking Moria myself.. Except it's underground and not under a mountain.

[Tiskenburdle]

Ralsar wrote...

Katriel needed to die as a part of Maric growth even as painful as it was.

Not so sure about Rowan, hated to see her go though I wanted her to skip away holding hands with Loggy to live happily ever after and that wasn't exactly possible.

Responsibilities weighed heavily on everyone throughout the book.

That's just it though, in what way does Katriel dying help Maric grow?  If anything it stunts him.  I see this sorta "righteous justice" justification far too often in movies, books...  It wouldn't bother me so much if it didn't make me think people actually thought this way.  I mean, revenge is fine and all.. If someone killed someone I loved, I'd do my best to kill them.  But I wouldn't call it justice, it's revenge pure and simple.  It serves no purpose other than the relief of my own grief.

With Maric not only was it less than righteous, it was also not believable.  A person might say, I'm not maric so how do I know what he was capable of under emotional stress.  But let me ask you this, If your dog that you loved killed your girlfriends cat but then came to you in remorse and by some means of animal empathy you where able to divine that your dog was in fact sorry and had learned it's lesson.  Would you then go into a rage and kill your dog as it approached you in a demur and cowed manner?  Now maybe your girlfriend might, that would be believable, it would be revenge not justice, but it would be believable.  After all it was her cat, and she likely has far less affection for your dog.  I might even say that it would be possible for a person to kill their own dog, if they didn't love it or felt some greater purpose that they loved more would be served by killing it.  But they wouldn't strike it down in anger *then* feel remorse.  Angry murders happen because because people feel personally slighted, and unloved, this wasn't personal and Katriel was making it clear she loved him.

Perhaps Maric did feel responsible for those under his command much as a parent might a child.  But I just can't see him striking down the object he loves most in anger because of this.  As killing Katriel would serve no purpose, (doesn't bring anyone back, prevent any future events, or serve to keep the peace since only a few knew) I just can't see a *wise* king doing such a thing.

As a side note, this destroyed the book for me.  I was starting to really enjoy it up until that point.  But "Dark" fantasy or no, I'm just not into Tragedies.  I'm sure the tragedy is a valid artistic literary medium, but why someone would enjoy such a thing is beyond me.  There is enough tragedy and trauma in life, why would someone actively choose to imagine more?  Give me a happy ending any day.  As a side question, if you do in fact enjoy tragedies, why?  Don't they make you feel bad, I mean isn't that synonimous with tragedy?  Following that, why would anyone then choose to feel bad?

[Eshaye]

Never assume what one might do or not do when enraged. The Calling has a much better ending though not entirely a happy one either. Perfect endings all the time to me get boring after a while. Who says Maric is wise? He doesn't get wise for a loooong time in my book.

[Tiskenburdle]

Although you're right, the book never calls Maric wise, I used the term mostly in response to having the act of murdering his beloved help him grow as a King. I disagree that the act is a positive step in his Kingly evolution, in my opinion a king should be ruled by wisdom and reason rather than emotion. But as an aside I felt the book did make it seem that killing Katriel was the "correct" course of action, I mean, according to the book even Katriel thought she had to die. That's what mostly upset me, there was no opposition to the act in the book, no one to say, what good does this serve. Vengeance is displayed as a noble and necessary act when in fact it's not. Again, I have no problem with Vengeance, but rather making it something it's not. I mean, how much "Righteous Vengeance" is being exacted in the world, how many "evil empires" apparently exist, all because of this sort of thinking. That's where the majority of my hostility comes from. Fiction or no, the more people see this sort of thinking as normal, the more it will be normal for them.



Although I wouldn't describe my preference for endings as perfect, (in the sense that every character get's exactly what they want in every way), I'll admit I do like at least the main character to be happy in the end, because that's who I identify with. I don't really have a choice in the matter, I'm reading along enjoying my life as Maric, then all of a sudden wham, I kill the love of my life.. "What no! why'd I do that!? That wasn't logical.." It actually made me sick, and I was in a funk for the rest of the day.. Maybe I lose myself too much, who knows... But at the end of the day, the novel itself was an Unpleasant experience for me.. Not because the novel was bad, but solely because it made me feel bad. Why do I want to feel bad?



As to perfect endings being boring. I don't quite understand, if by perfect you mean happy, why is a never ending stream of happy endings boring? It's not as if they always end the same, being different stories and all.. Or even that everyone always get's exactly what they want. However "The Stolen Throne" was in my mind a tragedy. The only people who ended up happy were the commoners. Maric kills his love and becomes duty bound to marry a woman he doesn't love in that fashion, Loghain the most tragic of the characters self imposes a life of duty and loneliness, and by consequence Rowan is left basically alone and also duty bound. I don't know maybe that's realistic in a fashion. Power and Responsibility coming at a price and all.. But it doesn't really change how the book makes "Me" feel.



In the end, it's all a matter of personal preference. I accept that my views are no more "correct" in this matter than anyone elses. But I'm still at a loss as to why people enjoy feeling bad. Does tragedy affect them in a different way? Or is it that they simply read the book as an impartial observer and don't feel emotionally connected to the characters? Maybe books should come with a label, "May produce feelings of loss".

[Fodder007]

I read the first chapter last night and thought it was brilliant. Will do the next chapter in a bit. It's written that well that I real feel the emotion, when Maric breathes heavy in the woods I breath heavy with him!

[Eshaye]

Well again Tiskenburdle you need to start reading The Calling if you haven't yet because a lot of what you said is addressed early on there. I don't want to spoil it for you but I think you'd get some closure there!

[dewcrowe]

Does anybody know if the calling will give things away that happen in the game? If so I'm going to wait to read it.

[Tildi]

I personally detest Loghain. Loghain knew that Katriel had called it quits with Severan and that there was a price on her head. Even Rowan was shocked that Loghain didn't tell Maric the whole story about Katriel. Remember, Katriel didn't open the gates to West Hill to signal the attack. She was double-crossed by Severan and the swarthy skinned Rivaini agent.

[LadyKarrakaz]

Hum, I have spoilerish theories, I haven't read the Calling yet:



- concerning Rowan's Death: maybe it's due to the taint of the Darkspawn, something she caught in the Deep Roads?

- concerning Morrigan, Maric could be her father. She is a bit older than Cailan, and The witch spends several hours with Maric alone. Sort of Beowulf pact.

What do you think?

[dewcrowe]

So I have a copy of the calling in hand. My only question is does it contain spoilers from the game? or is it a safe read?