69 réponses à ce sujet

[PatrickBateman]

Sounds more like l2p issues rather than game design, not really hard to avoid getting sync killed, I like that mechanic as it forces you to think things through a bit now and then.

[Chealec]

Sounds more like l2p issues rather than game design, not really hard to avoid getting sync killed, I like that mechanic as it forces you to think things through a bit now and then.

 

Just because they're generally easy to avoid doesn't make it a good mechanic - just means it's a bad mechanic that only penalises Vanguards and melee-focussed kits; GI/Javelin isn't going to give a damn if Scions can synch-kill, they'll be dead long before they get a chance.

 

Stunlock is also a bad mechanic - just a less permanently fatal one.

[Display Name Owner]

Instant death moves, or more appropriately slow cut scene death moves. Instead of shooting you, or beating you down the phantom goes into a cut scene where you get a sword through you and die, or the banshee lifts you up and puts her hand through you. Cut Scene being the only term I can think of where a enemy goes into a long animation that you are stuck being killed by with no ability to take action to break free.

 

In single player I don't find it to be an issue as you can fairly easily avoid them since they are all melee moves.  MP is a bit harder as lag will kill you.  The magnet hand reference is the fact that you can suddently teleport many meters too the banshee and get sync killed as your position due to lag is no where near where you thought it was.  I've had scions reach behind themselves somehow, grab me from a couple meters away and slam me intot he ground and beat me to death.  I'm thinking WTF, I'm behind you and a ways off how the heck did I just get grabbed into a sync kill.

 

Still I agree that it is fake difficulty. And I'd rather they up the difficulty in other ways.  I have no idea how to pull this off and keep in a challenge for those who like to cruise on insanity and not curb stomp those on normal.

 

Ah, I see. Well, personally I don't have too huge an objection to them, but then I've only experienced single player. I'm not saying I'm in love with them either, so if they're that much worse in mp I understand the gripe.

 

What I can agree with is the samurai sword malarkey. I mean, keeping a hand to hand weapon on them makes sense enough, in fact coupling it with cloaking makes sense (well, outside of a battlefield setting anyway), but as a main weapon it's kind of daft and moreover just not particularly cool. The Omni-blade is kind of overrated in terms of how cool it is if you ask me, but it at least gives the appearance of being practical. But if Shep ran around the place with the Omni-blade out and the guns tucked away, he'd look a fool, wouldn't he?

[Undead Han]

I find your lack of faith in swords disturbing, Han Solo. Luke didn't seem to think so on Besbin. You can count on it, The Knights of Ren, will be seeing you next month. WITH our trusty "swords" MUHAHAHA!!!

 

lol

 

Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.

 

[Quarian Master Race]

Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.

 

relevant

[Wulfram]

Just because they're generally easy to avoid doesn't make it a good mechanic - just means it's a bad mechanic that only penalises Vanguards and melee-focussed kits; GI/Javelin isn't going to give a damn if Scions can synch-kill, they'll be dead long before they get a chance.
 
Stunlock is also a bad mechanic - just a less permanently fatal one.

Everyone gets a gun and can use it. If a class insists on meleeing an enemy with Sync kill then they're knowingly taking a risk and should live with the consequences.

[Quarian Master Race]

I'm fine with Syncs in SP and on host in MP. They punish the careless but are easy to avoid for experienced players, especially given the exploits you can use to get out of them like ramps/stairs.

Off host MP tho, that's when they become pretty irritating in some cases. Being pulled across rooms and through walls then having to sit out the rest of the wave because the host is playing on a potato in Greenland with AOL dial up internet is not fun.

[TeffexPope]

Instant death moves, or more appropriately slow cut scene death moves. Instead of shooting you, or beating you down the phantom goes into a cut scene where you get a sword through you and die, or the banshee lifts you up and puts her hand through you. Cut Scene being the only term I can think of where a enemy goes into a long animation that you are stuck being killed by with no ability to take action to break free.

 

In single player I don't find it to be an issue as you can fairly easily avoid them since they are all melee moves.  MP is a bit harder as lag will kill you.  The magnet hand reference is the fact that you can suddently teleport many meters too the banshee and get sync killed as your position due to lag is no where near where you thought it was.  I've had scions reach behind themselves somehow, grab me from a couple meters away and slam me intot he ground and beat me to death.  I'm thinking WTF, I'm behind you and a ways off how the heck did I just get grabbed into a sync kill.

 

Still I agree that it is fake difficulty. And I'd rather they up the difficulty in other ways.  I have no idea how to pull this off and keep in a challenge for those who like to cruise on insanity and not curb stomp those on normal.

The only way is to create AI advanced enough to offer a consistent challenge...and of course, it will then try to kill you for real after a while. Rise of the machines!

[Statichands]

This.

 

I'm all for a little rule of cool, but swords being anything other than obsolete in a setting where automatic weapons exist and magic doesn't, strains my suspension of disbelief beyond the breaking point.

 

Knives> swords. I don't know why Phantom's wield swords when knives are better for assassins. 

[wass12]

My main problem with sync-kills (and Husk grabs) is that, well, the sync, AKA override player actions that would otherwise negate the grab (like a dodge or a stunning melee attack). It would be fairer if it would be an actual melee attack with proper telegraphing and a hitbox that has to actually connect with the player for the grab to occur. As of now, it's pretty cheap.

[Chardonney]

relevant

 

And this is exactly how Thane/Kai Lame fight should have gone.

[Chealec]

Everyone gets a gun and can use it. If a class insists on meleeing an enemy with Sync kill then they're knowingly taking a risk and should live with the consequences.

 

Try telling that to Wrex in the Armax arena ... he won't listen.

 

It's not just melee but Biotic Charge too; I've been literally grabbed out of mid-charge by a Banshee when targeting a Marauder behind her. Then there are Phantoms that go into insta-shank mode because they've swiped at a team-mate and gut you if you happen to BC anywhere near them... but that's all beside the point. Whether it's an avoidable risk or not, it's still cheap... there are far more entertaining ways to increase the difficulty, possessed ABombs for instance.

[Ahglock]

Try telling that to Wrex in the Armax arena ... he won't listen.

It's not just melee but Biotic Charge too; I've been literally grabbed out of mid-charge by a Banshee when targeting a Marauder behind her. Then there are Phantoms that go into insta-shank mode because they've swiped at a team-mate and gut you if you happen to BC anywhere near them... but that's all beside the point. Whether it's an avoidable risk or not, it's still cheap... there are far more entertaining ways to increase the difficulty, possessed ABombs for instance.

Oh possessed abombs are easy. You use lash to pull them right to you and your team mates. It works every time.

[Former_Fiend]

If they remove sync kills, I am going to do at least one playthrough of the game where I do nothing but pistol-whip/omni-blade enemies to death, only shooting at those enemies I physically cannot close the distance with due to their placement.

[afgncaap7]

Sounds more like l2p issues rather than game design, not really hard to avoid getting sync killed, I like that mechanic as it forces you to think things through a bit now and then.

 

You find a perfect world where people aren't getting synced from 10 feet away and getting grabbed by Banshees because cover suddenly became magnetic and then maybe "L2P" will be a legitimate counter-argument.

[Chealec]

Oh possessed abombs are easy. You use lash to pull them right to you and your team mates. It works every time.

 

I've killed the entire team, myself included, on a drone escort mission with Lash > Smash ... then couldn't play for about a minute as I was laughing too much!

[PatrickBateman]

You find a perfect world where people aren't getting synced from 10 feet away and getting grabbed by Banshees because cover suddenly became magnetic and then maybe "L2P" will be a legitimate counter-argument.

That's very rare and is not due to the sync kill mechanic itself, rather due to bad net code and people with way to bad connection hosting. But if the game lags to much sync kills are the least problem as you get instantly dropped by mooks. So yes, it's mainly an l2p issue.

[Deebo305]

Spoilers ahead for Mass Effect 3




The way that Thane died was better and if i could say heroic that if he just died in someplace alone, and for the swords even today the soldiers still use a knife a big one. in close combat is useful.

No matter what year it is, the Kukri will remain the most effective weapon

Spoiler

As for sync kills, I didn't hate them. I thought they were fine for Banshees and Atlas. If something that large and powerful doesn't instantly crush the MC foolish enough to rush them then it'd be somewhat less threatening

Still though, I agree to no space ninja swords. Phantoms were just dumb

[Silcron]

Swords can make sense in a sci-fi setting, if only they take the other technology into account. Gameplay wise I love how Destiny has done them in the last expansion. It will 1-4 hit kill most enemies (except bosses) and their special attacks cut that down to 1 or 2. It also helps that the melees home into enemies, it changes into 3rd person to give you more spatial awareness and more defense. Even in pvp, flank a group and spam the melee button a bit and you'll probably get 3 or 4 kills.

There are more to them but the point is that your normal guns cannot 1hit people, unless it's a headshot with a sniper, you hit everything with a fusion rifle (and it has high damage) or close ranges with a shotgun. So using a sword is very well worth it, but if you're not using hit and run tactics you're screwed. Sure, you may kill an enemy per hit, but there may be enough shooting you to kill you before you kill the group, or with bosses, stay hitting too long and you'll get crushed.

If they're going to do swords in ME, and I'd be ok if the only melee would be omniblades, which make a lot of sense to me, I'd want them to be biotic warp infused or something. They are slow enough that lore wise they'd ignore shields, so if they were powerful enough to cut through armor and dispose of enemies fast enough it could be worth it. The question should be: as a vanguard (because they should only be useful if you can close gaps really fast, or sneak into flanking them, but the vanguard is the close quarters oriented class) why should I choose a sword over a shotgun? Why is that loss or range worth the risk? Or is ignoring shields enough? (and I'd like gameplay to reflect that then.)

[afgncaap7]

That's very rare and is not due to the sync kill mechanic itself, rather due to bad net code and people with way to bad connection hosting. But if the game lags to much sync kills are the least problem as you get instantly dropped by mooks. So yes, it's mainly an l2p issue.

 

Very rare? You're kidding right? How long have you been playing this game, a week? It happens all the goddamn time unless you constantly insist on being host. And it frankly doesn't matter what causes it, the end result is the same - a broken mechanic that causes more fake difficulty than legitimate challenge. I remember one time a couple years ago when Banshees suddenly became silent on the PS3 for about a week and instant death was literally hanging around every corner. No amount of skill or experience will save you when a silent banshee teleports through a wall you just checked 5 seconds ago and straight-up decides that your session is done. You expect me to believe that the vast majority of your sync-deaths aren't BS? You may as well expect me to believe that the shuriken is the best weapon in the game.

[Ibn_Shisha]

This seems an appropriate setting in which to once more encourage recognition of one of the best threads in ME Forum history:

 

http://forum.bioware... hatred poetry

[Quarian Master Race]

And this is exactly how Thane/Kai Lame fight should have gone.

Note that Jones A ) Doesn't miss despite having a much less accurate firearm and only firing one shot from greater range than Thane and B )doesn't run directly at the idiot with the sword (i.e. the one thing he could have done to give the guy a remote chance of harming him).

Thane, the poster child of assasination via cutscene incompetence in an attempt to make really stupid things (space ninjas) look less stupid. See also: Standing there frozen for a full 5 or 6 seconds with your muzzle trained on discount Raiden cosplay guy as he utters a generic one liner and discards his frilly space sword, then punches you in the face as you still refuse to fire

 

[Chealec]

Never bring a knife to a gun fight ... well, unless you're this guy, this guy doesn't have to give a single f**k...

 

[Solar1101]

Sounds more like l2p issues rather than game design, not really hard to avoid getting sync killed, I like that mechanic as it forces you to think things through a bit now and then.

no it forces the opposite of thinking.  Yes you can sometimes use weapons or powers that stun but certain enemies seem to just ignore everything you throw at them.  It is just lazy npc design.

[Solar1101]

Never bring a knife to a gun fight ... well, unless you're this guy, this guy doesn't have to give a single f**k...

 

*waytoobig.jpg*

not helpful