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[Absafraginlootly]

So Mythal is supposed to be the elven god of motherhood, nurturing, and justice -- a point DA:I emphasizes in the elven temple in the Arbor Wilds. (Of course, it also characterizes her as vengeful and wrathful when you arouse her ire.)

 

*snip*

 

Motherhood and nurturing? Since when?

 

I always thought Mythal was the goddess of Justice and Protection, so I didn't find Flemythal being a bad mother contradictory.

 

Of the Evanuris she seems to be the most sensible and level headed of them (see her suggesting Falon'din and Elgar'nan appoint champions instead of starting a war) and by Solas's account she cared about her people. But being a good leader (or atleast better than the others) doesn't equal being a good parent.

 

She seems to be sometimes called the All-Mother, but that seems to be purely because the Dalish view her as the other head god to elgar'nan and think that the other gods are their children.

[Ariella]

Motherhood and nurturing? Since when?
 
I always thought Mythal was the goddess of Justice and Protection, so I didn't find Flemythal being a bad mother contradictory.
 
Of the Evanuris she seems to be the most sensible and level headed of them (see her suggesting Falon'din and Elgar'nan appoint champions instead of starting a war) and by Solas's account she cared about her people. But being a good leader (or atleast better than the others) doesn't equal being a good parent.
 
She seems to be sometimes called the All-Mother, but that seems to be purely because the Dalish view her as the other head god to elgar'nan and think that the other gods are their children.

I guess there may be a mention in Masked Empire about it and being a love goddess as well. Don't ask me, I haven't read it.

[TheBlackAdder13]

Motherhood and nurturing? Since when?

 

I always thought Mythal was the goddess of Justice and Protection, so I didn't find Flemythal being a bad mother contradictory.

 

Of the Evanuris she seems to be the most sensible and level headed of them (see her suggesting Falon'din and Elgar'nan appoint champions instead of starting a war) and by Solas's account she cared about her people. But being a good leader (or atleast better than the others) doesn't equal being a good parent.

 

She seems to be sometimes called the All-Mother, but that seems to be purely because the Dalish view her as the other head god to elgar'nan and think that the other gods are their children.

 

She's also the patron of motherhood -- it's mentioned in the Masked Empire and there's also mentions of it in the Temple of Mythal if you click on her portrait IIRC (or maybe it's dialogue with Morrigan -- at any rate I didn't realize she was also the patron of motherhood until my recent playthrough in the Temple of Mythal). 

 

From the wiki: 

 

 

 

Mythal, the Protector and the All-Mother, and goddess of love, is the patron of motherhood and justice and leads the pantheon with hier male counterpart, Elgar'nan.

[Qun00]

Flemeth's personality isn't affected by Mythal.

As long as she does her bidding like a good lackey, Mythal is happy.

Well she and Flemeth are one person, so in a way she is and as Solas said, once you are bound, you will always do her bidding. I think Flemeth is not as much Flemeth as she is Mythal in many scenes.

Sure, just like Anders and Justice are one. But to be joined together doesn't mean being the same person.

[TheBlackAdder13]

Sure, just like Anders and Justice are one. But to be joined together doesn't mean being the same person.

 

Actually it kind of does. If you friend Anders in DA2 instead of rival him this is basically confirmed -- Anders and Justice/Vengance become one entity -- Anders outright says this after he goes Guy Fawkes on the Chantry (if friended). See also: Wynne and the healing spirit (although fortunately for her that was a benign spirit).  From what Flemeth says, Flemeth and Mythal fused into one entity -- it's not outright possession; it's much more nuanced than that. 

[Ariella]

Flemeth's personality isn't affected by Mythal.
As long as she does her bidding like a good lackey, Mythal is happy.

Sure, just like Anders and Justice are one. But to be joined together doesn't mean being the same person.

Actually, yes it does. Anders tell Hawke that even the greatest scholars couldn't tell where his thoughts ended and Justice's began.

http://dragonage.wik...sabela/Dialogue

The first banter under Isabela and Anders, he specifically tells her that he and Justice are one person.

And there's no indication that Flemeth is in any way subservient to Mythal in that scene.

[Illegitimus]

Actually, yes it does. Anders tell Hawke that even the greatest scholars couldn't tell where his thoughts ended and Justice's began.
 

 

Unless of course they watched for the glowing eyes and cracks in his skin.  

[Ariella]

Unless of course they watched for the glowing eyes and cracks in his skin.

Think that glorious scene in Two Towers where Smeagol tells Gollum to go to hell.

Or maybe Bruce Banner and the 'other guy'.

[MrMrPendragon]

Maybe being murdered kinda pissed her off

[Dai Grepher]

Well she and Flemeth are one person, so in a way she is and as Solas said, once you are bound, you will always do her bidding. I think Flemeth is not as much Flemeth as she is Mythal in many scenes.

 

But it's clear that Flemeth is a carrier of Mythal's spirit, or a fragment of it at least. She refers to Mythal in third person, meaning they are separate. I think Mythal allows Flemeth to have free reign over her own actions, since they both have the same goals. Same as how Morrigan has control over herself, unless she tries to attack Flemeth.

[straykat]

I'm guessing Flemeth was like this to Morrigan because she knew it'd lead to a hardass, selfish instinct that would enable her to survive and be inclined to grab power. And this ultimately suited Flemeth's needs. She could insure having Morrigan where she wanted by simply keeping a watch on her, but this way, she put it on auto-pilot.

[Qis]

I don't think Morrigan and her mother are human, so love and hate to them maybe have different meaning and so mother-daughter relationship. As we can see they are dragons, maybe for dragons spitting fire at each other is a form of love, shouting at each other is a debate and they love to debate...maybe Dovahkiin could understand them...

 

It is just that Morrigan is younger dragon to be, Flemeth try to teach her to become more human...

[Qun00]

Actually, yes it does. Anders tell Hawke that even the greatest scholars couldn't tell where his thoughts ended and Justice's began.

http://dragonage.wik...sabela/Dialogue

The first banter under Isabela and Anders, he specifically tells her that he and Justice are one person.

And there's no indication that Flemeth is in any way subservient to Mythal in that scene.

Both Anders and Flemeth still speak of their spirit in the third person from time to time.

The distinction is never forgotten.

[In Exile]

We already saw what two souls being bound up with each other leads to: Anders. And "stable and helpful" Anders was not, even though Justice seemed to be a overall good (if rigid) sort in DA:A.

[TheyCallMeBunny]

Am I the only one who is really curious about Morrigan's parentage? I mean, was her father really a random stranger that Flemeth lured to her cabin? And is Flemeth Morrigan's biological mother at all? There is no denying they have the same features and eyes, but if Flemeth is her biological mother there must have been a lot of magic involved since she is obviously way to old to give birth... And the same goes for Yavanna (who, for some reason, seems to know more about Flemeth and be more in agreement with her).

 

I think Morrigan is destined to become very important to the plot, but in what way is hard to say.

[Qis]

My theory is, Morrigan is supposed to drink from the well and become a dragon. It is like her test all along since she follow The Warden to now, being a dragon is her destiny, it is just that Flemeth give her choices, and Morrigan don't understand her purpose. Maybe Morrigan was supposed to replace Flemeth when Flemeth die...

 

Many of Flemeth and Morrigan dialogues in DA:O indicating that they are not human.

[straykat]

I never got an indication in DAO that Morrigan herself wasn't human. She just didn't know where she came from.. whether she was kidnapped or her real daughter or not.

[Ariella]

Both Anders and Flemeth still speak of their spirit in the third person from time to time.
The distinction is never forgotten.

I see it as an acknowledgement of the other existing, and possibly for Anders a distancing technique.

The comparison that came to me is the Trill from Star Trek. They are, for all intents and purposes one being with no superior/subordinate issues. Of course, if the symbiote is removed, the host dies...

[LorenzEffect]

Am I the only one who is really curious about Morrigan's parentage? I mean, was her father really a random stranger that Flemeth lured to her cabin? And is Flemeth Morrigan's biological mother at all? There is no denying they have the same features and eyes, but if Flemeth is her biological mother there must have been a lot of magic involved since she is obviously way to old to give birth... And the same goes for Yavanna (who, for some reason, seems to know more about Flemeth and be more in agreement with her).

 

I think Morrigan is destined to become very important to the plot, but in what way is hard to say.

I've wondered that as well. Although I haven't seen the exact quotes, I've read that party banter indicates that Morrigan looks Chasind. It's hard to tell from the drawing style, but I think Yavana resembles Morrigan.

Flemeth's current body wasn't necessarily menopausal at the time Morrigan was born. Sure she looked old, but not ancient.

[Iakus]

Actually, yes it does. Anders tell Hawke that even the greatest scholars couldn't tell where his thoughts ended and Justice's began.

http://dragonage.wik...sabela/Dialogue

The first banter under Isabela and Anders, he specifically tells her that he and Justice are one person.

And there's no indication that Flemeth is in any way subservient to Mythal in that scene.

And if you rival Anders, Justice/Vengeance takes over more and more, despite Anders fighting him.  He begins to experience missing time, and in the end it was Vengeance, not Anders, who goes church-bombing.  Anders is begging for death at that point because Vengeance is taking over completely.

[Iakus]

We already saw what two souls being bound up with each other leads to: Anders. And "stable and helpful" Anders was not, even though Justice seemed to be a overall good (if rigid) sort in DA:A.

Anders and Justice were not emotionally compatible.  Anders' anger changed Justice, perverting him into a demon.  Wynne and the Spirit of Faith seem much morein sync with each other.  Perhaps aided by the fact that the spirit had been watching over Wynne for years beforehand.

[TheBlackAdder13]

Am I the only one who is really curious about Morrigan's parentage? I mean, was her father really a random stranger that Flemeth lured to her cabin? And is Flemeth Morrigan's biological mother at all? There is no denying they have the same features and eyes, but if Flemeth is her biological mother there must have been a lot of magic involved since she is obviously way to old to give birth... And the same goes for Yavanna (who, for some reason, seems to know more about Flemeth and be more in agreement with her).

 

I think Morrigan is destined to become very important to the plot, but in what way is hard to say.

 

I always though Maric was Morrigan's father after reading The Stolen Throne (yes, that would make Alistair her brother heheheh) since Flemeth takes him away for unknown purposes for a night but I think the devs have since discredited this?

[TheyCallMeBunny]

I've wondered that as well. Although I haven't seen the exact quotes, I've read that party banter indicates that Morrigan looks Chasind. It's hard to tell from the drawing style, but I think Yavana resembles Morrigan.

Flemeth's current body wasn't necessarily menopausal at the time Morrigan was born. Sure she looked old, but not ancient.

 

As I recall Flemeth was described as being old already in The Stolen Throne, so I have a hard time imagining her not being menopausal at that time. I think that in World of Thedas II her birth was placed sometime in the Towers Age, making her several hundred years old. Then again, if magic is involved who knows?

[Ariella]

And if you rival Anders, Justice/Vengeance takes over more and more, despite Anders fighting him.  He begins to experience missing time, and in the end it was Vengeance, not Anders, who goes church-bombing.  Anders is begging for death at that point because Vengeance is taking over completely.

It seems to me that because of Anders' own preexisting anger management issues and according to the short story that discusses when the merge happens, Justice's possession of Anders didn't go smoothly, Anders' situation is somewhat odd.

And if you friend him, as Alan, I think, pointed out, he pretty much says they're one person in the end.

I used Banner and Hulk specifically. Hulk is Banner's id on steroids. Without some serious comic book logic power you can't separate them. The same with spirits and demons. You need a heck of a lot of lyrium or a blood sacrifice, and then you need to get to the spirit or demon and survive killing it or convincing it to leave.

Wynne seems to be an odd case, but the spirit of faith that saved her didn't seem as formed as Justice or Mythal. It never really displayed any personality outside of Wynne, unlike Justice's occasional outbursts.

When Flemeth talks about Mythal though, it's usually in context of history.

"As I was betrayed, as she was betrayed, as the world was betrayed!" for example or "Mythal knew the hearts of men well before she came to me." The last's wording may be a little off but it's pretty much the gist of it.

If there's a distinction it's a very thin one, and in Flemeth's case it's certainly not Mythal giving Flemeth marching orders.

[TheBlackAdder13]

As I recall Flemeth was described as being old already in The Stolen Throne, so I have a hard time imagining her not being menopausal at that time. I think that in World of Thedas II her birth was placed sometime in the Towers Age, making her several hundred years old. Then again, if magic is involved who knows?

 

Except she's been possessing her daughters to live since then; so she doesn't have the original body she had during the Towers Age. But yeah, she was still described as a crone in The Stolen Throne, so I'm assuming that there has to be some sort of magic involved if Morrigan is her biological daughter. Of course, this wouldn't be unprecedented, as grey wardens are supposed to be sterile but they can still conceive with Morrigan if they do the dark ritual.