39 réponses à ce sujet

[The_Mac23]

At the time of Origins, in the Landsmeet, which of these two warriors would claim victory in a duel?

I personally think Loghain. Great fighter and commander, Hero of River Dane. It'd be a good one... Who do you think?

[straykat]

For all his faults, I like to think of Alistair as a truly badass warrior. Plus, being younger, I think he'd win.

[sylvanaerie]

Alistair.  A grey warden and in the prime of life.  

 

Loghain.  A strategist, and presumably has continued to spar to keep in shape as much as he can.

 

Simple facts are, muscles deteriorate over time, and at 50, Loghain is past middle age.  Alistair is going to have him beat by stamina, strength and sheer determination (I think his hatred/need for revenge outweighs Loghain's since it's a lot more personal).

 

So my choice: Alistair.

[The_Mac23]

I love Alistair. He and Loghain are in my top favorite characters of this series. Despite his age, I think Loghain is still at the top of his game. A commoner who helped defeat Orlais, rose to the rank of Teyrn, has killed darkspawn I'm sure, is a proven survivor. Could easily see that hate Alistair has for Loghain being his greatest weakness against the seasoned veteran.

[GoldenGail3]

Oh Alistair of course.

[Ghost Gal]

Doesn't Alistair actually win if you have him duel Loghain? 

 

Doesn't that kind of settle any doubt?

[themikefest]

Simple facts are, muscles deteriorate over time, and at 50, Loghain is past middle age. 

Why is 50  past middle age?

[sylvanaerie]

Why is 50  past middle age?

Because people don't normally live to be 100 years old.    

 

Middle age is typically 30-40 since an average life span is approximately 60-80 years old, give or take.  Even less in a medieval society, but I'd give him the benefit of the doubt with 30-40 being middle aged seeing as Thedas has magical means to ensure healthy individuals get the most out of life (if they have access to magic).

[themikefest]

Because people don't normally live to be 100 years old.

That has nothing to do with anything 
 

Middle age is typically 30-40

Really? Where did you get those numbers from?

[Acno777]

Doesn't Alistair actually win if you have him duel Loghain? 

 

Doesn't that kind of settle any doubt?

It does settle any doubts. Although, you could let Loghain use Alistair as a punching bag until game over. 

[The_Mac23]

Of course the devs will have Alistair win lol, that proves nothing. It's a game and good always beats evil in the end.

But if it were a duel in ancient history, no preset ending, I think Alistair would be defeated. Loghain was one of the toughest Fereldens one could fight... If not the toughest. Alistair, while very skilled, just doesn't have the same background and training overall a man like Loghain did.

Like I said, it'd be a great fight, but in the end, Loghain wins.

[Illegitimus]

Doesn't Alistair actually win if you have him duel Loghain? 

 

Doesn't that kind of settle any doubt?

 

Not if you chug potions to do it.  

[Xetykins]

Not if you chug potions to do it.

I did not chug potions, with half hp left. But my gawd, the battle was loooooong, I almost fell asleep with a tank Alistair. Loghain don't get big hits on Alistair with shield and heavy armor, but then Alistair was also hitting peanuts back. It was like watching paint dry.

[Aren]

At the time of Origins, in the Landsmeet, which of these two warriors would claim victory in a duel?

I personally think Loghain. Great fighter and commander, Hero of River Dane. It'd be a good one... Who do you think?

 

With a rogue i have no problem in defeating Loghain,plus canonic Loghain is also a rogue not only a warrior.

All in all it depends on their motivation,Alistair hatred vsLoghain paranoia and lunacy.

since in terms of skill they are not so different in the game.

[Aren]

Alistair.  A grey warden and in the prime of life.  

 

Loghain.  A strategist, and presumably has continued to spar to keep in shape as much as he can.

 

Simple facts are, muscles deteriorate over time, and at 50, Loghain is past middle age.  Alistair is going to have him beat by stamina, strength and sheer determination (I think his hatred/need for revenge outweighs Loghain's since it's a lot more personal).

 

So my choice: Alistair.

The fact that Loghain is at his 50 while AListair at his 20 doesn't mean anything,it depends on training.

How many man of 50-55 there are who are much stronger than 20 years old boys.

Because that's it at 20 years  Alistair cannot be at the pinnacle of his physical form since is too young.

Can't you see that both Duncan and Riordan are older,maybe like Loghain and yet they are very resistant and with a lot of stamina.

Those who trained well at 50 are still very powerful.

So i will say that is unknown

[Dai Grepher]

Loghain is only really tough in the duel for gameplay reasons. Once he's in the party he isn't as powerful as he was in the duel. So if you were to compare Alistair and Loghain, you would have to compare them as they appear in the party. In my playthrough I would say Loghain was better than Alistair, but that could be based on how I distributed his attribute points.

 

All that aside, Darkspawn Chronicles confirms that Alistair can beat Loghain in the duel. So I'm sure it had to do with him being conditioned properly.

[The_Mac23]

Darkspawn Chronicles proves nothing lol

[Vanalia]

And you shouldn't forget "skill". Being young doesn't make you win everything. I'm sure Alistair would lose against some warriors much older than him, because he may have young muscles, but less experience. I'm sure that Duncan or Loghain would kick his ass.

 

 

Some people are bad fighters all their lives, some people are naturally good fighters and improve with time, etc... age cannot be the only way to judge who would win. I'm sure Loghain would know how to compensate his age in a fight against younger men.

[Aren]

Loghain is only really tough in the duel for gameplay reasons. Once he's in the party he isn't as powerful as he was in the duel.

I hate this kind of thing,really it doesn't make sense.

Same in the Dlc of the darkspawn where you have to defend the Archdemon,he is so weak that Dog only is capable to kill him and his minions

[Aren]

 

All that aside, Darkspawn Chronicles confirms that Alistair can beat Loghain in the duel. So I'm sure it had to do with him being conditioned properly.

I don't rember the codex honestly,maybe Alistair didn't fought a single duel with Loghain, but defeated him togheter with all of his soldiers,pretty much what happen if you lose the landsmeet a more large battle.

[straykat]

Since I'm so hard on Alistair otherwise (he likes to purposely be "a little weak", and is blind about the Wardens a bit too much), I like to think of this one thing that makes him truly valuable. His skills. It wouldn't be fair to not see one superior quality.

 

I don't usually have him duel Loghain though.. just because I like to have him marry Anora. It'd be a cool choice if I played female/romanced him..

[Illegitimus]

I hate this kind of thing,really it doesn't make sense.

 

Well the big health bar of boss battles with humanoid opponents can be chalked off to them using potions to heal themselves.  You can do it instantaneously so why not them?  

[Reorte]

There aren't many top sportsmen at 50, age has quite a bit to do with it. So does experience of course though.

Loghain must be a pretty good fighter but the skills that have got him where he is aren't personal one-on-one fighting. In field experience probably helps him be a good strategist and mentally tough but having that doesn't require exceptional prowess.

Alistair on the other hand, with both Templar and Grey Warden training, as well as a good chunk of direct experience when we get to that stage of the game, should win. Should of course, that relative inexperience compared to Loghain could mean he'll make a mistake that Loghain could take advantage of.

[Ghost Gal]

Of course the devs will have Alistair win lol, that proves nothing. It's a game and good always beats evil in the end.

 

And yet Alistair still beat Loghain in the Darkspawn Chronicles DLC, an alternate universe where the Warden died in the Joining so Alistair had to take up the mantle, but takes place during the Battle of Denerim, which is after the duel.

 

Considering the Landsmeet always ends in a Trial By Combat regardless of whether you won the Landsmeet's support (since Loghain throws a fit if you win and Eamon arranges requests one if you lose), and Alistair is more than happy to fight Loghain himself if you refuse, and doesn't even let Loghain give his last words in any fight against him, and Alistair is there in the Battle of Denerim in the DLC, I'm guessing Alistair fought him and beat him in that Alternate Universe, even though Alistair himself is killed by the darkspawn at the end of that DLC.

 

That DLC Alternate Universe doesn't care about "good always beats evil in the end" since in the end Alistair and Morrigan are killed by the darkspawn Vanguard before they can even get to the Archdemon, so why have him win against Loghain? Because he's a better fighter. It's that simple.

 

Besides, the fact that he always wins no matter the outcome probably means he's the better fighter and he'll always win.

 

Not if you chug potions to do it.  

 

That's assuming that Alistair chugs potions in every single Alistair vs. Loghain duel by every player ever to touch the game, which I highly doubt.

 

Alistair didn't touch a single potion in any of the three or so times I had him duel Loghain. It was a fair fight, and Alistair won.

[Vanalia]

Yeah, and my little genlock killed Alistair in Darkspawn chronicles and then he got chewed by the Archdemon to make a nice little ending. So?

 

Darkspawn chronicles is not canon at all, I killed all the team (Morrigan, Leliana, Zevran, Alistair, etc) just with my little darkspawn soldier... it's not realistic.

 

We didn't even see a duel between Alistair and Loghain, maybe there was NO duel, maybe Loghain was directly executed, maybe everyone used potions, no one knows! because we didn't see it! so no need to speculate on something we didn't even see, especially in something like Darkspawn chronicles...