39 réponses à ce sujet

[The_Mac23]

I watched old man Duncan kick the **** out of an ogre that straight up murdered a man at least twenty years younger (King Cailan). I watched that same Duncan kill the crap out of Ser Jory who was desperately trying to fight his way out of the Joining to see his wife and child again.

Point is, age does not matter! Not in this case. And Loghain has obviously kept himself in shape.

[Xetykins]

I watched old man Duncan kick the **** out of an ogre that straight up murdered a man at least twenty years younger (King Cailan). I watched that same Duncan kill the crap out of Ser Jory who was desperately trying to fight his way out of the Joining to see his wife and child again.
Point is, age does not matter! Not in this case. And Loghain has obviously kept himself in shape.

You understand that Duncan is also living a life of battling darkspawns all the time when Loghain is not, right? So he is well honed and so is Alistair whos gone rigorous training since 10 yrs old, mentally ( for will as a paladin type) and physically.

This debate just made me think of the battle between Doomhammer and Anduin Lothar in the book Dark Portal.

[Aren]

I watched old man Duncan kick the **** out of an ogre that straight up murdered a man at least twenty years younger (King Cailan). I watched that same Duncan kill the crap out of Ser Jory who was desperately trying to fight his way out of the Joining to see his wife and child again.

Point is, age does not matter! Not in this case. And Loghain has obviously kept himself in shape.

Loghain of DAI,10 years later (60 years) is still on the top

[Jedimaster88]

Alistair is young, has had intensive training as a templar and later as a warden. His age means he can propably fight longer before he becomes tired. During the game he fights darkspawn, demons, mages etc. Because of this he has fresh fighting experience. compared to those foes, what is Loghain but a simple man. Experienced and skilled sure, but still just a man.

 

Loghain is older, has years of experience of war and fighting. He has propably kept himself in shape but I still believe he will become tired faster. He is a general and because of this I dont know if he has actually personally fought against the darkspawn that much or just issued orders behind the lines. Still an experienced fighter will propably know how to adapt to the battle situations even if he is older and lacks fresh experience.

 

I would say Alistair has better odds at winning but Loghain can surprise. Ultimately I guess its about who has more willpower to win.

 

This depate reminds me of the dark knight returns. In this story, Batman is around 55-years old and he is fighting this gang called the mutants and their leader, who is younger, stronger and faster. When he first fights the leader, he lost because he tried to fight like a young man which he isnt anymore. He tried to mach him in physical strenght. The leader was simply too much for him.

The next time they fought, they did so in a mud pit. Both covered in mud, the leader wasnt that fast anymore and Batman used this to his advantage. He used his cool techniques this time. Not only did he win this time, he broke the leader in front of his followers.

Im extremely curious to see Ben Afflecks Batman in Batman v Superman: dawn of justice next year because he is supposed to be an older Batman and they seem to have taken inspiration from the dark knight returns comic.

[sylvanaerie]

I watched old man Duncan kick the **** out of an ogre that straight up murdered a man at least twenty years younger (King Cailan). I watched that same Duncan kill the crap out of Ser Jory who was desperately trying to fight his way out of the Joining to see his wife and child again.

Point is, age does not matter! Not in this case. And Loghain has obviously kept himself in shape.

Duncan has been fighting the past 20 years.  One on one actual fighting for his life.  I wouldn't doubt he would beat an ogre.  He also knows where to place his blades to maximize the damage against a darkspawn opponent.  Cailan was caught off-guard.  Jory was caught off-guard.  These are hardly good examples since both have had little experience with actual fighting as they grew up in a Ferelden at peace.  Quite different from Alistair who's been fighting them for the past 6 months prior to the game events.

 

At best, Loghain has been sparring the past 30 years until recently when there were actual opponents to fight.  While good for keeping his muscles in as good as shape as he can, fighting for 'fun' vs fighting for your survival is two different things. 

 

Until the darkspawn emerged, the only ones still at war were the 1) dwarves, who always have darkspawn in proximity.  And 2) Grey Wardens who go actively seeking them.

 

I still think without some other factor (as Jedimaster88 points out), on even grounds, Alistair's youth will keep him fighting longer/harder.  It's also Alistair is fighting for his life because Loghain will kill him if he wins.  Loghain doesn't expect Alistair to do the same, he still thinks he's in control of the situation.  If nothing else, his complacency undoes him.

 

If however, you'd asked, who would win, Duncan or Alistair, I'd choose Duncan.  He's more ruthless, cutthroat and does what he needs to do to get the job done, age or not.  In this case, his experience and overall personality trumps Alistair's youth.  He's also a decade younger than Loghain.

[Xetykins]

Don't forget the enhanced stamina of a grey warden added to Duncan's honed battle prowess, and Alistair's intense mental and physical training, youth and cheek! Yes a lot of cheek.

[jros83]

Because people don't normally live to be 100 years old.    

 

Middle age is typically 30-40

There's no way in Hell I am middle aged.

 

(32)

[DeathScepter]

Age and Treachery trumps Youth and Skill.  Loghain I do favor.

[Aren]

If i recall Duncan killed a high dragon before to met the Architect,being tired for that Ogre only.....you're disappointing me...

But Loghain was also a well trained man who fought during the Orlesian war and probably continued to train himself later,he was an hardworking man,so i doubt that a young Alistair,that only trained himself as a templar without fight actual fighting prior to the blight would had some chance.

In DAO the are few battles that involves darkspawn before of the end game,so AListair didn't kill so many of them considered that bring him with the Warden is not even mandatory in the few quests that involve kill a great amount of darkspawn.

IN DAA when there are many of them,darkspawn,disciples,armored ogres there is only the Warden and Oghren from the main game,so all in all the dwarf and the Warden represent the best trained elements of the party at the end of the whole DAO experience i would say very far from every others aside from maybe Leliana who we know is always invovled in dangerous tasks

[Callidus Thorn]

I'd say Loghain would win. He's got cunning.

 

Let's face it, when it comes to Loghain, Alistair's seeing red. Loghain would be able to exploit Alsitair's rage, with ease, and get the better of him that way.

[Ghost Gal]

Alistair wins the duel no matter what, in our universe and in the Darkspawn Chronicles DLC AU where Alistair had to assemble the armies and take down Loghain himself without the Warden's input.

 

Enough of this "who would theoretically win?" nonsense because we saw them fight and we saw who won. It was Alistair. He's the better duelist. Get over it Loghain banboys and fangirls.

[Callidus Thorn]

Alistair wins the duel no matter what, in our universe and in the Darkspawn Chronicles DLC AU where Alistair had to assemble the armies and take down Loghain himself without the Warden's input.

 

Enough of this "who would theoretically win?" nonsense because we saw them fight and we saw who won. It was Alistair. He's the better duelist. Get over it Loghain banboys and fangirls.

 

It also has Herren turning into a Desire Demon to save Wade.

 

And considering that Alistair recruited both Templars and Mages, Ser Cauthrien, Arl Howe, and got Anora to rule with him despite executing her father, clearly it's not a direct "what if?" scenario.

[Dabrikishaw]

It also has Herren turning into a Desire Demon to save Wade.

 

And considering that Alistair recruited both Templars and Mages, Ser Cauthrien, Arl Howe, and got Anora to rule with him despite executing her father, clearly it's not a direct "what if?" scenario.

Al managing to do all that while the player can't is actually rather impressive to me, so point for him.

 

As for the topic question: I guess I don't care so much for Alistair vs Loghain as a hypothetical. Even if we give Loghain his boss stats it only amounts to the man having level 20 stats and generic tier 6 weapons and armor. Alistair can be better equipped and better optimized for points and specializations. The only way Alistair loses is if you don'y do anything and just let an under-equipped, badly optimized A.I. auto attack Loghain. 

[AlanC9]

And considering that Alistair recruited both Templars and Mages, Ser Cauthrien, Arl Howe, and got Anora to rule with him despite executing her father, clearly it's not a direct "what if?" scenario.

So Alistair's actually a better leader than the PC?

As for the topic, I don't see too many 50-year-old UFC champions out there. OTOH, Musashi was still fighting at that age.

[Callidus Thorn]

Al managing to do all that while the player can't is actually rather impressive to me, so point for him.

 

So Alistair's actually a better leader than the PC?

 

Without The Warden around, Alistair has a far greater amount of narrative convenience on his side, to make up for not having the player to help him