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[roselavellan]

 

If the human race in any recognizable form was thousands of years dead already? I'd accept that reality and move on with my life until I joined them.

 

 

It would be a far greyer issue if the ancient elves were in fact dead. There are many hints in the game that they are still alive, though. We don't know how many or under what circumstances, so right now, I don't really see how anyone can judge what he's planning with such certainty. I mean, honestly, it's hard to judge or, indeed, defend something when you don't have all the facts.

 

What we do know is that Bioware intended him to be a sympathetic, compassionate character. They said so in the PAX panel. We do know that he doesn't lie unless it's absolutely necessary - and even then, he only lies by omission. So when he says things like "sometimes terrible choices are all that remain", I'm inclined to believe that he means it. Something terrible will happen either way.

[Former_Fiend]

They can intend him to be sympathetic all they want. With me, they missed the mark. All I see is a deluded man with a messiah complex.

[Vit246]

And my answer to Solas would be "No, I wouldn't.". So how am I being a hypocrite? 

 

I feel like this dialogue was just poorly phrased. It should be more like:

 

Inquisitor: You'd murder countless people?

Solas: How many have you killed to save your own? For your world?

 

The way its currently phrased, its too easy to argue against.

And the Inquisitor has certainly killed many. And lets not get hung over semantics like "murder".

[Boost32]

They can intend him to be sympathetic all they want. With me, they missed the mark. All I see is a deluded man with a messiah complex.

Thats exactly how I see him, his megalomania is his strongest characteristic to me.

[Boost32]

I feel like this dialogue was just poorly phrased. It should be more like:
 
Inquisitor: You'd murder countless people?
Solas: How many have you killed to save your own? For your world?
 
And the Inquisitor has certainly killed many. And lets not get hung over semantics like "murder".

Self-Defense is not murder.

[Jaison1986]

They can intend him to be sympathetic all they want. With me, they missed the mark. All I see is a deluded man with a messiah complex.

 

Just like half of the players in this franchise?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 If I do it without murdering them, I will. That goes for Solas' armies, and it goes for Solas. If the game gives me the option the destroy Solas' armies by converting them to my side, I'll do that.

Offtopic, but I would love if there were nonlethal ways to deal with enemies like you can in some franchises, like Deus Ex. 

[Former_Fiend]

Just like half of the players in this franchise?

 

Is that to say half the players of this franchise are deluded and have messiah complexes, or half of them see Solas as such?

[Jaison1986]

Is that to say half the players of this franchise are deluded and have messiah complexes, or half of them see Solas as such?

 

Meaning that they think they can change anything they want, the world can be shaped to their liking, think themselves beyond judgment or criticism. Believe they are aways right and everyone around them are not. That's what I meant. I have seen many players show themselves not too different then Solas. They just happen to see things from a different perspective, and if circumstance was against them, they wouldn't be beyond of using similar methods to that of Solas.

 

In fact, Trespasser felt like an eye opening experience to me. It showed how little control I had and how little I actually changed. I fell for the messiah complex myself. Thought I could change the world. Turns out I didn't changed ****.

[Former_Fiend]

I'm not going to pretend like I don't have ambition - I'm hoping DA4 will let us be the one to finally topple the unconquerable Minrathous - but at the end of the day, I'll settle for killing one elf.

[TheEggCrusher]

Meaning that they think they can change anything they want, the world can be shaped to their liking, think themselves beyond judgment or criticism. Believe they are aways right and everyone around them are not. That's what I meant. I have seen many players show themselves not too different then Solas. They just happen to see things from a different perspective, and if circumstance was against them, they wouldn't be beyond of using similar methods to that of Solas.

 

In fact, Trespasser felt like an eye opening experience to me. It showed how little control I had and how little I actually changed. I fell for the messiah complex myself. Thought I could change the world. Turns out I didn't changed ****.

This is completely true. As a very solas-like person myself, I definitely see how he can either be shunned or loved, especially due to his controversial personality. 

 

Many people think I'm a horrible person, and they do have good reason. But I see myself as always justified, long term, except for special circumstances. 

 

I believe that people's negative opinions about Solas are completely justified, as I believe people's negative opinions of me are as well. This doesn't mean I think they're right. I just think it's justified. 

 

The difference between justification and correctness (whether politically or morally) is an extremely grey point for Solas's character, and that is what makes him so controversial. 

[Mlady]

That is a tremendously dangerous way of thinking, IMO. How many crimes are committed daily because "he couldn't stop himself", and how many of them are never persecuted because society still enables that apology for the "right" perpetrators?

 

I see no reason to think he was forced in any way. In fact, if his tale is supposed to be a tragic one -- or one of redemption, or both -- removing his agency in that manner would invalidate that premise altogether. He's guilty as f*ck and needs to face up to and answer for that. No more lies or ever-so-convenient excuses. If and only if he does that, then maybe I could be able to believe in any possibility of redemption for him.

 

 

When the post-credits scene with him and Mythal popped up, I immediately remembered that conversation (and some other, similar ones he had with various people) and had a great big "OH SH*T!" moment because it felt like like I/we had unwittlingly encouraged him to carry on with some unknown but likely very bad plan. Obviously, he'd have gone ahead with it no matter what, but that moment of realization/shock/headdesk was still a testament to the brilliant way he was set up in the base game.

 

Things are too complicated because of Mythal and I have a feeling he's trapped in something he can't get out of and also refuses to try because of his duty. Something we don't know yet is bigger than even his love for Lavellan, and it's keeping him from escaping. He says his journey is one of death, so he is planning to die and be alone forever, which is his fear, but the way he speaks of punishment, I suspect he feels he is rightly punishing himself too for something. Most likely putting the Veil up. And what I find interesting is he won't tell you why your people have to die, meaning there's a strong chance he can be stopped and he knows it. I honestly feel he is not the main villain and I don't trust Mythal because she is thirsty for revenge.

 

LOL I know!

[Paragonslustre]

This is the bit of dialogue that confuses me the most about Solas

 

Cassandra: Solas, if you do not mind me asking, what do you believe in?

Solas: Cause and effect. Wisdom as its own reward, and the inherent right of all free willed people to exist.

[Mlady]

 

This is the bit of dialogue that confuses me the most about Solas

 

Cassandra: Solas, if you do not mind me asking, what do you believe in?

Solas: Cause and effect. Wisdom as its own reward, and the inherent right of all free willed people to exist.

 

 

Solas believes in freedom, has helped countless slaves be people who think for themselves and were taught to fight back against those who enslaved them. Yes his current goal contradicts what he feels, but this convinces me even more that he's not acting of his own will but doing it for the sake of someone or others. I know Cole mentioned his people were asleep but hurting behind mirrors, and he wants to save them. He just needs to be shown another way. For the moment he has no other option but the one he told the Inquisitor. Just like creating the Veil was his only option back then.

[Illyria]

Oh, he sees us as people if you befriend him. Doesn't change the fact that sees the people of Thedas as less important and worthy of existence then the old elves. Which is really quite shitty. 

 

But isn't that what you're doing?

 

You're saying that the people of modern Thedas are more important than the trapped elven people.

 

Survive to the murder knife? Who did that? That's impossible without plot armor.

 

Leliana (sort of), Morrigan (which should've been obvious since the option said 'stab') and Anders (in a way - you can hand him over the Templars in Awakening but DA2 retcons this)

 

I think that everything he's trying to save very much is gone. I don't think there's a massive horde of immortal elves trapped on the other side of the veil waiting to be freed. 

 

I think he's just like Corypheus; fighting to restore something that doesn't exist anymore, at the cost of everything that does.

 

Except we're told in the game that there is.

 

Offtopic, but I would love if there were nonlethal ways to deal with enemies like you can in some franchises, like Deus Ex. 

 

Same.

[Paragonslustre]

I do strongly believe something/somebody else is behind Solas' motives tbh.  I just don't have a clue what it is.

[Former_Fiend]

While we're on the subject of relevant Solas banter,

 

Vivienne: And when they became possessed, or use their power to harm?

Solas: I would kill them. Magic is more elegant than a blade or a bow, but a murderer remains a murderer.

[The Baconer]

But isn't that what you're doing?

 

No. 

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

Like I said, I'm perfectly capable of offering redemption. Sten, Zevran, Loghain, Isabela, and Blackwall can all attest to that. 

 

In Solas' case, like in Anders' case, I'm simply choosing not to. 

I know this is two pages back, but curious. Are there circumstances where you might change your mind?

[AresKeith]

I do strongly believe something/somebody else is behind Solas' motives tbh.  I just don't have a clue what it is.

 

I dunno, everything seems to be pointing to Solas acting of his motives 

[Aren]

Given that we just spent a whole game trying to prevent Corypheus from doing the same thing for the same reason - tear down the veil to rectify his mistake and restore his people - I think it would be hypocritical to treat Solas any differently.

Corypheus didn't care about the veil,probably he didn't even know on how to do that,he wants another chance into the black city. 

Yes a completely different goal,he just wanted to use the power of the Orb to reach the black city without mass sacrifices.

[Former_Fiend]

 

 

Except we're told in the game that there is.

.

 

When? We're told that the Evanuris are trapped within the fade. The elven people, however, were apparently still around on the Thedas side of the Veil. Cut off from the fade they became mortal, they warred on themselves until there were only bones for Tevinter to pick at. 

 

The Sentinels and a few sleeping corpses in Uthenera are all that remains of the ancient elves as far as I can tell. Even Solas states that his plan is only "a chance" for restoration. He's the one gambling with the fate of all the world, the same kind of behavior he condemns the Grey Wardens for.

[Aren]

Morrigan.

I already said that on another topic that was a case of an evident plot armor, she survived because the Warden wanted too by kick her through the mirror instead to finish her, and didn't even follow her later as that eluvian was perfectly functional and without any damge.

 Gaider wrote that contrived ending for the sake of the family reunion,but neglected the other option with this plot armor..

In trespasser things are more realistic,Solas can't be killed there because is more powerful than the Inquisitor and has the advantage of that anchor.

If the Inquisitor try to attack him(attack option),he just use the anchor on their hands to stop their attack.

Weeckes did a better job,as trespasser is infinitely superior to Wh,a dlc that did not offer to all Wardens a plausible reason to even bother to find Morrigan,like those who rejected her or the Orlesians Wardens..

Do you even know on how much the warden has to travel to find her?

No eluvian shortcut here like in Trespasser, all those miles to find her?

My prince Warden would have never moved his ass from his throne for that, find an apostate without an archdemon soul that got destroyed by that patriot of Loghain..why bother?

Clearly that dlc wasn't good for many wardens,Orlesians or those who opted to use Alistair/Loghain to destroy Urthemiel.

[Former_Fiend]

I know this is two pages back, but curious. Are there circumstances where you might change your mind?

 

Not likely. If Solas abandoned all his plans, threw himself at my mercy and consented to a trial for the crimes he's committed and planned to commit, I might be willing to let him live to see it. But at the same time I'd also be thinking he's simply too powerful and too dangerous to be trusted. It could just be a ruse to get out from under my watch, it could be genuine but he'll change his mind later. 

 

Anyone with the desire to destroy the world and the power to make it happen is a dangerous person to leave alive. Even if he were made tranquil, that could be reversed.

 

 

 

Corypheus didn't care about the veil,probably he didn't even know on how to do that,he wants another chance into the black city. 

Yes a completely different goal,he just wanted to use the power of the Orb to reach the black city without mass sacrifices.

 

 

Corypheus' plan; breach the veil, enter the fade. Corypheus' goal; become a god, restore Tevinter.

 

Solas' plan: tear down the viel, open the fade. Solas' goal; kill the false gods, restore the ancient elves.

 

Drastically different, these two. 

[Paragonslustre]

I dunno, everything seems to be pointing to Solas acting of his motives 

 

He just seems so contradictory which is why I posted the dialogue between him and Cassandra.   Seriously, I should buy WOT 1 and 2 but I can't see myself buying the comics and all the books (I bought Asunder so I could at least get an idea of what was going on in Inquisition).  It's not a criticism in any case, but when I read about Solas killing his friend on here (I don't recall his name but he was involved with Briala?)  I realise how little I know and can only go on what I pick up from the game in front of me.