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[Former_Fiend]

I'm always amused at people who act like Solas aided Corypheus.

 

Solas let Venatori agents uncover the orb and Corypheus did his own thing without Solas helping him. He was weak from his sleep and could not stop Corypheus even if he tried. How could he run into the temple and end his madness when he would die too from his weakened state? Solas made only one stupid mistake, he hoped when Corypheus unlocked the Orb it would kill him. He did not plot alongside him. He had no idea Corypheus had discovered effective immortality and he didn't know where Corypheus would unlock it. When the explosion happened and the Herald was found, then he realized what a mess he made.

 

He could have not given Corypheus the orb in the first place.

 

You give someone a bomb expecting them to blow themselves up, you're responsible for anyone else they blow up with them.

[Mlady]

He could have not given Corypheus the orb in the first place.

 

You give someone a bomb expecting them to blow themselves up, you're responsible for anyone else they blow up with them.

 

Like I said, Solas had no idea where he would open it. For all he knew it would be where his hideout was. Corypheus decided on something far more public. By then Solas would have been helpless anyway. If he said he knew what Corypheus was planning, then I would agree, but he only know opening it would kill him (or so he thought) but where and when he had no clue, so when it did happen, he wanted it to be fixed desperately because it was horrible what happened.

[Former_Fiend]

Like I said, Solas had no idea where he would open it. For all he knew it would be where his hideout was. Corypheus decided on something far more public. By then Solas would have been helpless anyway. If he said he knew what Corypheus was planning, then I would agree, but he only know opening it would kill him (or so he thought) but where and when he had no clue, so when it did happen, he wanted it to be fixed desperately because it was horrible what happened.

 

It doesn't matter if he knew or not. In fact, that's exactly the point. He had no idea where he would set the thing off. It could have been in the middle of the wilderness or in the middle of Val Royeaux or Minrathous, which would have resulted in even more deaths. 

 

Solas recklessly and callously put a bomb in the hands of someone he knew would set it off. He didn't know where he'd do it, and he didn't care. 

[Mlady]

It doesn't matter if he knew or not. In fact, that's exactly the point. He had no idea where he would set the thing off. It could have been in the middle of the wilderness or in the middle of Val Royeaux or Minrathous, which would have resulted in even more deaths. 

 

Solas recklessly and callously put a bomb in the hands of someone he knew would set it off. He didn't know where he'd do it, and he didn't care. 

 

And then he spent 2 years making it right because he did care and wanted the people to stop suffering.

 

Basing Solas on how he was before you change him does not equal the Solas we see in Trespasser that we changed.

[Lady Artifice]

 

Omigod, I love it. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

And then he spent 2 years making it right because he did care and wanted the people to stop suffering.

 

Basing Solas on how he was before you change him does not equal the Solas we see in Trespasser that we changed.

No, he spent that time trying to get his Foci back, not to help people. At the time he joined, he didn't consider any of us people. 

[Mlady]

No, he spent that time trying to get his Foci back, not to help people. At the time he joined, he didn't consider any of us people. 

 

Yes he did, if you are his friend he says so. You made him see they were people too, and yes he wanted to help stop what he did. He's not a heartless jerk, he cares for people and hates all kinds of suffering. His current issue is deeper than his feelings though and he almost gave it all up once because of them too.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yes he did, if you are his friend he says so. You made him see they were people too, and yes he wanted to help stop what he did. He's not a heartless jerk, he cares for people and hates all kinds of suffering. His current issue is deeper than his feelings though and he almost gave it all up once because of them too.

What he says later is irrelevant. I said at the time he joined, he did so so he could get his Foci back and not to help people because he doesn't see us as people. The Inquisitor didn't change his views at the point of his joining, since we were complete strangers, to the point of not even meeting him since we were unconscious, at that time. 

 

If he cares for people and hates all kinds of suffering, why does he want to inflict worldwide suffering that will kill millions? His words and actions are contradictory, and actions speak louder than words. 

[thats1evildude]

He could have not given Corypheus the orb in the first place.

You give someone a bomb expecting them to blow themselves up, you're responsible for anyone else they blow up with them.

Sort of irrelevant if all those people will die anyways.

[Mlady]

What he says later is irrelevant. I said at the time he joined, he did so so he could get his Foci back and not to help people because he doesn't see us as people. The Inquisitor didn't change his views at the point of his joining, since we were complete strangers, to the point of not even meeting him since we were unconscious, at that time. 

 

If he cares for people and hates all kinds of suffering, why does he want to inflict worldwide suffering that will kill millions? His words and actions are contradictory, and actions speak louder than words. 

 

Exactly. When he joined he was not the same person he is when you befriend him, so the Solas in Trespasser is redeemable.

 

As I said it's more complicated than we know at the moment, and only time will tell why he must do this, and it's not just to restore his people. I know it relates to the Evanuris too and Mythal's revenge. For now we can just guess at his real intentions.

[Former_Fiend]

And then he spent 2 years making it right because he did care and wanted the people to stop suffering.

 

Basing Solas on how he was before you change him does not equal the Solas we see in Trespasser that we changed.

 

And now he's trying to kill everyone. That's all the reason I need to lop his head off.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Exactly. When he joined he was not the same person he is when you befriend him, so the Solas in Trespasser is redeemable.

 

As I said it's more complicated than we know at the moment, and only time will tell why he must do this, and it's not just to restore his people. I know it relates to the Evanuris too and Mythal's revenge. For now we can just guess at his real intentions.

So you agree I am right when I say the reason he joined the Inquisition was to get his Foci back? I'm assuming that's what you mean since you are sayng exactly to that point. Who he became later is irrelevant for who he was at that time. If the Zodiac Killer reformed, it doesn't change the fact that at the time they were a serial killer. And him being redeemable is in question. 

 

If his real intentions are different than what he said in Trespasser, why should we trust anything that comes out of his mouth? In that case he has lied before, to his "best friend", so why wouldn't he lie again, either to his "best friend" again if we are the Inquisitor in DA4 or especially to a stranger if we are a new protagonist in DA4?

[Mlady]

And now he's trying to kill everyone. That's all the reason I need to lop his head off.

 

That's your choice and that's fine with me. It's your game. In my eyes he's trying to fix a wrong and thinks the only way is to kill everyone, but he said he treasures the chance to be proven wrong, so that's what I intend to do.

 

So you agree I am right when I say the reason he joined the Inquisition was to get his Foci back? I'm assuming that's what you mean since you are sayng exactly to that point. Who he became later is irrelevant for who he was at that time. If the Zodiac Killer reformed, it doesn't change the fact that at the time they were a serial killer. And him being redeemable is in question. 

 

If his real intentions are different than what he said in Trespasser, why should we trust anything that comes out of his mouth? 

 

He did indeed join to get his Foci back and try and fix what he thinks he caused (Thedas as we know it now is his mistake he thinks), but he was not ordering Corypheus to open in at kill the Divine. He just wanted it open and the Magister killed.

 

Friendship and love? I believe in that in real life and in games. If a bond is strong enough, it can change someone or make the perosn want to help the other at all costs if there's any sign of redemption in them. As I already said, he almost threw it all away because he is so much in love with Lavellan.

[Abyss108]

If Solas didn't care, he wouldn't gain influence every time you help people. That happens right from the start of the game.

[Boost32]

If Solas didn't care, he wouldn't gain influence every time you help people. That happens right from the start of the game.

Of he truly cared, he would not try to kill everyone.

That's your choice and that's fine with me. It's your game. In my eyes he's trying to fix a wrong and thinks the only way is to kill everyone, but he said he treasures the chance to be proven wrong, so that's what I intend to do.
 


 
He did indeed join to get his Foci back and try and fix what he thinks he caused (Thedas as we know it now is his mistake he thinks), but he was not ordering Corypheus to open in at kill the Divine. He just wanted it open and the Magister killed.
 
Friendship and love? I believe in that in real life and in games. If a bond is strong enough, it can change someone or make the perosn want to help the other at all costs if there's any sign of redemption in them. As I already said, he almost threw it all away because he is so much in love with Lavellan.

He knew it could lead to thousands of deaths, he didn't care at the time because no one was truly alive in his view. People who died because of him deserve justice, I don't think he deserves to continue to live after all he did and after what he will do and try to do.

[Illyria]

I think the most believable way to convince Solas not to go through with his plans is to tie him to a chair and lecture him about exactly how the ancient elven civilization wasn't better than modern Thedas. (In fact, I might be tempted to say that the worst tyrant you can imagine, who kills millions every day, eats babies, etc. etc. is still infinitely better than the evanuris because this tyrant will die -- and sooner, rather than later -- offering the possibility of improvement with the next leader. Maybe that's just me.)

 

But why is everyone assuming that redeeming Solas means he'll live? Quite a few redemption stores in the DA series have been the "redemption equals death" trope: Loghain can die killing the archdemon, Zathrian can die to lift the curse, Caridin will kill himself... So I can easily imagine the story of DA4 necessitating Solas' death. Either we kill him, or maybe he sacrifices himself to permanently stabilize the Veil because plot development. And then the stinger would be the reveal of something even worse to try to make us wish he'd lived.

 

Solas doesn't want to bring back the elven empire (at least, based on his dialogue that's not what he wants).  What he wants is to help the elven people (people people).  What Solas did to the world had catastrophic side effects for both spirits and elves (and there are ancient elves trapped and helpless somewhere - his banter with Cole makes that clear).  Again, what he's going do is terrible but he sees a chance to save his people and fix his mistakes.  Terrible, but understandable.

 

I see the redemption=death trope to be a bit of the easy way out.  What I'd want is for Solas to be stopped (or, better, finding a way to bring down the veil and save the elves - ancient and modern - without destroying modern Thedas) and then Solas and Lavellan to travel around Thedas educating elves on their history and building a new future.

[Abyss108]

Of he truly cared, he would not try to kill everyone.

He knew it could lead to thousands of deaths, he didn't care at the time because no one was truly alive in his view. People who died because of him deserve justice, I don't think he deserves to continue to live after all he did and after what he will do and try to do.

 

And what about the other people he could help if he was redeemed instead of killed? 

[Illyria]

If Solas didn't care, he wouldn't gain influence every time you help people. That happens right from the start of the game.

 

This.

[Former_Fiend]

And what about the other people he could help if he was redeemed instead of killed? 

 

What about all the people Random Hinterlands Rogue Templar #35 could have helped if he was redeemed instead of killed? Or Random Hinterlands Rogue Apostate #17? Far as I know, neither of them directly helped Corypheus and neither of them plotted to tear down the veil and murder countless people.

 

And I'm supposed to give Solas more consideration than the countless people I've slaughtered throughout three games... why, exactly? Because he knows my PC's name? Because he painted a mural in my honor? Because he has a martyr complex?

[Abyss108]

What about all the people Random Hinterlands Rogue Templar #35 could have helped if he was redeemed instead of killed? Or Random Hinterlands Rogue Apostate #17? Far as I know, neither of them directly helped Corypheus and neither of them plotted to tear down the veil and murder countless people.

 

And I'm supposed to give Solas more consideration than the countless people I've slaughtered throughout three games... why, exactly? Because he knows my PC's name? Because he painted a mural in my honor? Because he has a martyr complex?

 

No, if you have the chance to redeem those people, you should redeem them too.

[Former_Fiend]

No, if you have the chance to redeem those people, you should redeem them too.

 

If they want redemption, they should find priests. 

 

Solas is a madman who is plotting the greatest act of mass murder in the history of Thedas. He's no better than Corypheus as far as I'm concerned, and no more deserving of a second chance.

[Abyss108]

If they want redemption, they should find priests. 

 

Solas is a madman who is plotting the greatest act of mass murder in the history of Thedas. He's no better than Corypheus as far as I'm concerned, and no more deserving of a second chance.

 

It's not about whether they deserve it for me. It's about the other people, who they could later help, not deserving to suffer because you killed the person who could help.

[Former_Fiend]

It's not about whether they deserve it for me. It's about the other people, who they could later help, not deserving to suffer because you killed the person who could help.

 

I don't dwell on hypotheticals. Solas could help countless people if he's redeemed, or he could become a hermit and never interact with another soul, or he could change his mind in a decade and try the whole genocide thing again, or he could trip and bust his head open on a rock the next day. Anything could happen and I'm not inclined to assume the best case scenario. 

 

I'm not going to concern myself with what Solas might or could do if I save him. I'm gong to concern myself with what he will do if I don't stop him. And I am going to make sure that he never succeeds. That is my prerogative. 

[Abyss108]

 

I don't dwell on hypotheticals. Solas could help countless people if he's redeemed, or he could become a hermit and never interact with another soul, or he could change his mind in a decade and try the whole genocide thing again, or he could trip and bust his head open on a rock the next day. Anything could happen and I'm not inclined to assume the best case scenario. 

 

I'm not going to concern myself with what Solas might or could do if I save him. I'm gong to concern myself with what he will do if I don't stop him. And I am going to make sure that he never succeeds. That is my prerogative. 

 

Sure, and its my prerogative to consider what will lead towards a better world when I deal with people.

[Former_Fiend]

That world still existing would probably be a good start.