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The Trespasser Reveal - A Missed Opportunity?


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#76
Phoenix_Also_Rises

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I agree 100%. I loved the DLC, but it felt like there was a scene missing between Solas pacifying the anchor and the Inquisitor walking in to the chamber with no lower arm. This is made particularly stark to me by the fact that everyone else in the room doesn't even blink at the lack of an arm. no one mentions it, looks at it shocked, gasps about it, etc. So clearly, off screen, the Inquisitor got back to the palace, had their arm removed/flake off, and everyone but the player had time to adjust to it.

 

The shock value achieved in the scene we see is negated for me by the disconnect of no one else being shocked in the least. I could have gotten the same shock (ie: Her arm is GONE?! O.O) in a reveal in an emotional moment where the Inquisitor is waking from convalescing after it happened and I dunno, the love interest or Josie or someone comes to the room to tell her/him the tribunal is resuming, as well as asking how s/he's feeling and if they're even up to making an appearance.

 

 

 

Ah, but you see, the shock portion of the shock value here is not aimed at everybody else (i.e. the characters) - it is aimed at you. But yeah, your entire reply was almost a point-by-point description of my thought process playing through Trespasser the first time around :D Nobody reacts to the arm being gone - not the Inquisitor, not the members of their posse, not the council at large. There are some gasps, yes, but those do not come until the Inquisitor starts talking about the future of the Inquisition.  

 

Just the quiet reveal of the arm missing to let us take in the emotional impact of it, along with seeing our Inquisitor react to it via body language and maybe a short convo. (Though, really, it could just be a full on cutscene with no dialogue choices and still work.)

 

Agreed. It does not need to be big or made needlessly more complicated by having somebody else present. People have suggested a LI, but  - what if that particular Inquisitor does not have a LI? Will they not be allowed to process an incredibly traumatic experience just because of that? And it can be done so easily - as you pointed out, it need not even have dialogue (like the How to Train Your Dragon clip, which features very little and, in the moment when Hiccup realizes what has happened, has no dialogue at all) . The arm crumbles, Inquisitor collapses, your party shouting as it fades to black. Then, with the screen still black, sound starts coming back first. People are arguing somewhere - their voices are muffled, though, as if they were separated from you by a closed door. Picture comes next - blurry ceiling. The Inquisitor sits up as things come back into focus. They are in bed back in the Winter Palace and everything hurts like hell. The Inquisitor winces. But something is wrong. There is an odd sense of weightlessness on one side, felt all the way up to the shoulder joint, as if some of the pull it is used to feeling is no longer there. Perhaps too afraid to look, they reach with the other hand to feel what is wrong, but only grasp at air. As the camera pans out, the missing limb is revealed swathed in bandages. The Inquisitor takes a few deep breaths trying to keep calm, trying not to give in to the rising panic. That is when the arguments get louder. They are shouting over each other about what happened with the Qunari, with Solas, how will it affect the rest of the Exalted Council and the Inquisition. The Inquisitors shock is replaced with determination. There is still work to do. They get out of bed.

 

It would take a minute at most. Also, there already was a similar scene in the game - the trek through the Frostbacks after Haven, followed by the Dawn Will Come and culminating in the coronation of the Inquisitor. Similar beats would be recreated, and by echoing Haven, you would multiply the emotional impact by tapping into the impressions left by that scene, and create the anticipation that something bigger is still afoot - Same but Different.

 

 

 

Even this guy knows what I am saying and he is never wrong :P In all seriousness, though, people often make fun of this remark (and often not without reason), but there is merit to it - only the storytelling mechanic discussed here has to be applied with care, not dropped like a fifteen megaton bomb. 

 

 

Then you go to the courtroom and have your awesome speech.

 

If the Inquisitor comes back in DA4, I do hope they make up for this by showing her/him dealing with their prosthetic. It doesn't have to be a big thing. Just maybe rubbing at their stump as they are attaching/detaching the limb for the day, maybe before someone comes into the room they're in to see them or something. Just a quiet moment or two to show this has taken a toll on them.

 

Think of the couple of quiet moments they slipped in for Shepard throughout ME3, where there'd be no dialogue really, for that few second at the beginning or end of a larger cutscene. Just the camera would be on Shepard looking at a pile of data pads, or staring off into space after closing the comms with Admiral Hackett. Quiet bits that show the stress. Body language and acting, basically. Like how movies do it.  DA2 and DAI itself also did this with its cutscenes a lot, though in DAI it was typically with the NPCs not the PC. The point is, though, there's precedent.

 
Agreed. I said that already, though, I think about a hundred times :D I actually replayed Trespasser relatively recently, and in comparison with the base game, it was so much more right in so many more ways than the base, especially with the Inquisitor. For instance, that scene where the gang is drinking with Dorian because he is about to leave, but the Inquisitor does not know, and Varric lets it accidentally slip - the Inquisitor says nothing to Varric or to Dorian - they just give them both a look. It is little more than a nice little touch, but that one look alone tells you everything you need to know and it is such a perfect character moment. Which is also a bit bad - you see that they can do impactful scenes without the necessity for much dialogue - so why not this?
 
But I have ranted so much about this already :D
 
Thanks for the response :)

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#77
Ski Mask Wei

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It would've been nice to see your love interests react to it while giving you different ways for the Quis to feel but it might have been too intense.  Has Bioware ever gone that raw before?  That's some real grown-up shite that you're more likely to see on TV.  Bioware's been softening the edges around DA lately if you haven't noticed.    

 

Can you imagine them doing the classic amputation scene like in the movies?  Leliana:  "Inquisitor take a few shots of this liquor then bite this."  Fade to black with screams.  The forums would explode.             



#78
nightscrawl

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Another thing I hate about the lost arm plot is how the Inquisitor changes back to the red and blue formal wear outfit. This is because BioWare was too lazy to tweak each custom clothing option to show a severed left arm. They were too lazy to even apply the severed arm tweak to the same formal wear outfit model of different colors! Why didn't BioWare put the effort into this? The color change in clothing also distracted from the lost arm. My first thought was, why is he wearing red again when I had him in dark brown/black and white?
 
...
 
Oh, that's why. :angry:


Yet another indication that we will not play the inquisitor again. If they didn't think it worth changing the model of the arm on those few casual outfits, they're definitely not going to want to bother making unique armor models for the player in DA4. :(

 
You seriously think that it only required some simple tweaks? If they didn't have the Inquisitor in the custom formal dress then they would have had to change the model for every armor combination on every race and gender. I guarantee it was not a simple task even for the four races that we did have. However, I will say that I don't understand why it also applied to the recolors of the formal outfit changed through the wardrobe, but that is just my ignorance.
 
Also, it should be stated that doing model work for a DLC is FAR different than planning something during initial game development. Sure the whole arm thing could be their way out for not showing the Inquisitor ever again, but if they were going to do something like have a dual protagonist they would have the entirety of the game's development to make it work. However, if they simply had a cameo, there is no reason that the Inquisitor can't also be in a set armor, like Hawke was in the Champion gear.

#79
nightscrawl

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It would've been nice to see your love interests react to it while giving you different ways for the Quis to feel but it might have been too intense.  Has Bioware ever gone that raw before?  That's some real grown-up shite that you're more likely to see on TV.  Bioware's been softening the edges around DA lately if you haven't noticed.    
 
Can you imagine them doing the classic amputation scene like in the movies?  Leliana:  "Inquisitor take a few shots of this liquor then bite this."  Fade to black with screams.  The forums would explode.


Again though, this is where head-canon comes in. I have a removal scene in my head -- I actually have two versions, I'm not sure which I prefer -- but it doesn't work out like that.
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#80
Nefla

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You seriously think that it only required some simple tweaks? If they didn't have the Inquisitor in the custom formal dress then they would have had to change the model for every armor combination on every race and gender. I guarantee it was not a simple task even for the four races that we did have. However, I will say that I don't understand why it also applied to the recolors of the formal outfit changed through the wardrobe, but that is just my ignorance.
 
Also, it should be stated that doing model work for a DLC is FAR different than planning something during initial game development. Sure the whole arm thing could be their way out for not showing the Inquisitor ever again, but if they were going to do something like have a dual protagonist they would have the entirety of the game's development to make it work. However, if they simply had a cameo, there is no reason that the Inquisitor can't also be in a set armor, like Hawke was in the Champion gear.

I don't think it would be simple, but I think if they were developing the inquisitor as the protagonist they would want to try it out. The stealth mechanic only present in MotA couldn't have been simple and easy but they thought it had merit and did it. If the inquisitor is shoehorned in as a crippled, sagely OOC questgiver NPC then they only need one outfit so it doesn't matter.



#81
Dai Grepher

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Launched a thousand lunches. Well put. :lol:



#82
Akiza

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I've written extensively on this topic, and I don't feel like doing so again, but I will say how the arm was removed was the single most aggravating part of Trespasser for me. It's not shown to be removed, though apparently you can see it done in flycam. I mean, what? Why do all that if we can't even see it? It's clear they were going for shock value, but it didn't work for me, because I was too confused as to why no one in the Exalted Council seemed to notice the Inquisitor walking in without a left hand to be shocked. It was immersion-breaking; it brought me out of the game and made me think: "What the hell, Bioware?"

 

Seriously, I think Trespasser was great overall, but the fact that you don't see it get removed, don't get reactions from anyone including your romance, can't even react yourself, and get no reactions about Solas either just irks me so incredibly much. Those 2 things needed to be a part of the DLC. I just hate that it's one long cutscene after you enter the last eluvian. Ugh.

 

/rant.

Maybe in Thedas that is not a problem,to lose a limb.
I still remember Genitivi in DAO
Warden:"Probably your foot will need to be cutted"
Genitivi"ah um ok no problem is just the foot of an old man,i will find another.."

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#83
Dai Grepher

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You seriously think that it only required some simple tweaks? If they didn't have the Inquisitor in the custom formal dress then they would have had to change the model for every armor combination on every race and gender. I guarantee it was not a simple task even for the four races that we did have. However, I will say that I don't understand why it also applied to the recolors of the formal outfit changed through the wardrobe, but that is just my ignorance.
 
Also, it should be stated that doing model work for a DLC is FAR different than planning something during initial game development. Sure the whole arm thing could be their way out for not showing the Inquisitor ever again, but if they were going to do something like have a dual protagonist they would have the entirety of the game's development to make it work. However, if they simply had a cameo, there is no reason that the Inquisitor can't also be in a set armor, like Hawke was in the Champion gear.

 

A task's simplicity is based on the designer's level of skill. I could have applied the tweak to all models and armors easily.

 

It's really no different from putting new arms on your armor in the crafting section.

 

Just select the vector ring where the arm cuts off and add a new model that copies the arm material above it and wraps it into a folded closure. Every arm model has the basic "pajama" arm as the base model. Different armors will change the material design (darkened samite, silk brocade, etc). This is usually cloth, but for warriors it can sometimes be that metallic scale-looking material. For cloth and leather, roll the arm closed. For metallic, clamp it shut.

 

Simple.
 


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