62 réponses à ce sujet

[Youknow]

 

It does, the races in DAI where nothing but a palette swap and all the backstory were thrown away to tacky war table missions.

 

And that has anything to do with character development? No. It doesn't. 

[Vortex13]

I would love multiple races if playing as them actually felt different. If playing as a different race was a completely new experience. Playing through the game from a Turian perspective would be an interesting experience if it didn't just feel like playing a reskinned human with a dodgy accent.

 

 

This.

 

I want to play as a Salarian, or Turian, but not if the only difference between them and humans is appearance, a microscopic change in a few stats and a few throw away lines of "Oh, you're a(n) [insert species here]". 

[Vortex13]

IMO, multiple playable races could be handled (at least better than in DA:I) if BioWare dropped voiced dialogue for the PC. I know, I know perish the though and all that nonsense, but think of all the word budget that will be freed up if we didn't have to have 2-4 voice actors and actresses filling in for the player? Think about how all of that surplus word budget could be used to make the NPCs more reactive to player racial choice. Etc. 

[Kierro Ren]

I find your lack of faith in aliens, disturbing...

 

Spoiler

Case you forgot... ME3 had multi-races in MP. Really don't see the problem, and it's not just humans exploring it Humans and aliens.

[KingofTime]

And that has anything to do with character development? No. It doesn't. 

Yes it does, try again bub.

I find your lack of faith in aliens, disturbing...

 

Case you forgot... ME3 had multi-races in MP. Really don't see the problem, and it's not just humans exploring it Humans and aliens.

Exactly and good thing its staying that way.

[Sylvius the Mad]

- multiple races harms character development and the narrative.

Good. The authored narrative needs to be scaled back to allow for more emergent character development.

Multiple races makes it harder for the devs to straightjacket us.

- overall character animations become stiff and dull

That's no cost at all. Detailed animations add nothing to the gameplay.

- waste of resources that could be put elsewhere

I make this same argument against the voiced protagonist. It's not persuasive there, either.

-the already Human Aliens of ME would become more Human and wooden since there's only so much options to define your PC

That's an unrelated problem. We'd have more options if they left us more space to headcanon.

-who the hell wants to play as an Asari

Fair point.

[Kierro Ren]

Exactly and good thing its staying that way.

 

I totally misunderstood your thread, I thought you were saying no multi-races for MP... smh. Nonetheless, if the story was written more open, like Dragon Age: Origins or Inquisition (Tho elf/human made better sense in DAI). THEN multi-races would be fine. I'll admit, I'm bumed I won't be playing as a Turian or a new alien outside MP, but that's how it is. Although, it's expected, MEA's new, we need to explore, and get an idea about the new places. Then, we might get a chance at multi-races in MEA 2 or 3. If not, so be it.

[PhroXenGold]

I totally misunderstood your thread, I thought you were saying no multi-races for MP... smh. Nonetheless, if the story was written more open, like Dragon Age: Origins or Inquisition (Tho elf/human made better sense in DAI). THEN multi-races would be fine. I'll admit, I'm bumed I won't be playing as a Turian or a new alien outside MP, but that's how it is. Although, it's expected, MEA's new, we need to explore, and get an idea about the new places. Then, we might get a chance at multi-races in MEA 2 or 3. If not, so be it.

 

How did playing as an elf make any sense whatsoever in DA:I? An member of an oppressed, sub-human (as the people see it) minority become the most important religious figure in the best part of a millenium and the only reaction you get is "oh, I wasn't expecting an elf". It was frigging stupid and utterly inconsistent with the lore of the setting.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Blame the self entitlement of the BSN. Nothing but whiners who think they know whats better for a game than the actually devs. Im here to correct this attitude or at the very least attempt to.

 

How dare anyone think differently from you. Only a self-entitled whiner would dare disagree with you. Get the pitchforks.

[Panda]

How did playing as an elf make any sense whatsoever in DA:I? An member of an oppressed, sub-human (as the people see it) minority become the most important religious figure in the best part of a millenium and the only reaction you get is "oh, I wasn't expecting an elf". It was frigging stupid and utterly inconsistent with the lore of the setting.

 

Seeing how huge part of DAI's plot is about Dalish elves, yes. Especially if you are playing Trespasser being elf is best race to have.

[PhroXenGold]

Seeing how huge part of DAI's plot is about Dalish elves, yes. Especially if you are playing Trespasser being elf is best race to have.

 

There is a lot of content involving elves sure, but that doesn't mean it makes sense for the PC to be one. An elven Herald of Andraste would be like a black president of the US....in 1900 (in terms of how the people of Thedas would react). And yet nothing happens. Exactly the same things occur as when you're human. No matter that a member sub-human (as perceived) minority who have to put up with massive discrimination has just become one of the most powerful political and religious figures in Thedas, no-one cares beyond the odd remark about not expecting you to be an elf. The ramifications of being an elf in that position are simply ignored, and you end up with the game playing out the same as if you were a human, which is completely and utterly inconsistent with the lore of the setting.

[Vortex13]

At least with the Dalish Elf your character had a cultural background of being a member of the Dalish. The Dwarf and Quinari were outsiders to their own races. Playing as my Cadash Inquisitor, I was rather disappointed at how humans and elves knew more about dwarven culture than my character did,

[Quarian Master Race]

This.

 

I want to play as a Salarian, or Turian, but not if the only difference between them and humans is appearance, a microscopic change in a few stats and a few throw away lines of "Oh, you're a(n) [insert species here]". 

Judging by the playable "races" in DA games, this is exactly what would happen, and it would be terrible for the setting. Say what you will about rubber foreheads, but the humanoids in their current forms do at least have some fundamental biological and psychological differences from the humans in this setting (unlike in DA) that have repercussions on their primary cultures, and homogenizing them into Star Trek aliens would not be something I would be supportive of. Even I don't really want to play a "quarian" whose only difference from the human is a 10 minute tutorial on the Migrant Fleet, +10% tech power damage, a reskin and an extra dialouge option to call someone a bosh'tet every now and again after they trigger a "racism" flag. If you're going to do that, you may as well just focus on the human and make the narrative tighter and more coherent, and leave the aliens in MP where their uniqueness won't be harmed as much.

Now, I would love standalone games written for and focussed around specific aliens where you have a fixed turian/ salarian/ quarian protaganist, but I doubt that would have enough popular support to warrant developmental resources.

[PhroXenGold]

At least with the Dalish Elf your character had a cultural background of being a member of the Dalish. The Dwarf and Quinari were outsiders to their own races. Playing as my Cadash Inquisitor, I was rather disappointed at how humans and elves knew more about dwarven culture than my character did,

 

Actually, I'd say elves have it worse in that aspect. For a Qunari or Dwarf it makes sense that you don't know a huge about about your race's culture due to the backstory. For a Dalish, it makes no sense at all, yet you still get loads of elven lore explained to you by humans....

[Sanunes]

This.

 

I want to play as a Salarian, or Turian, but not if the only difference between them and humans is appearance, a microscopic change in a few stats and a few throw away lines of "Oh, you're a(n) [insert species here]". 

 

I agree, what the protagonist says isn't that much of an important issue for me, its more about how the world reacts to the NPC.  I would want shop keepers to react based on what species I am playing or even have different motivations for quests.  Just having a few different interactions isn't enough for me to desire to have a human in a rubber suit.  If more of the game was like Wicked Hearts and Wicked Minds quest in Dragon Age: Inquisition I think it would add more to the game, but the majority of the game playing out identically just seems boring.

 

IMO, multiple playable races could be handled (at least better than in DA:I) if BioWare dropped voiced dialogue for the PC. I know, I know perish the though and all that nonsense, but think of all the word budget that will be freed up if we didn't have to have 2-4 voice actors and actresses filling in for the player? Think about how all of that surplus word budget could be used to make the NPCs more reactive to player racial choice. Etc. 

 

I don't think the majority of gamers want to go back to a silent protagonist since that was a criticism towards Dragon Age: Origins especially from console owners who had trouble reading that much dialogue on a television screen.  Now I am fine with having two voice actors for the protagonist one male and one female even with them sounding exactly like a human protagonist because I didn't really notice the difference between the voice actors after awhile in Inquisition for it was all the same dialogue.

[Vortex13]

Judging by the playable "races" in DA games, this is exactly what would happen, and it would be terrible for the setting. Say what you will about rubber foreheads, but the humanoids in their current forms do at least have some fundamental biological and psychological differences from the humans in this setting (unlike in DA) that have repercussions on their primary cultures, and homogenizing them into Star Trek aliens would not be something I would be supportive of. Even I don't really want to play a "quarian" whose only difference from the human is a 10 minute tutorial on the Migrant Fleet, +10% tech power damage, a reskin and an extra dialouge option to call someone a bosh'tet every now and again after they trigger a "racism" flag. If you're going to do that, you may as well just focus on the human and make the narrative tighter and more coherent, and leave the aliens in MP where their uniqueness won't be harmed as much.

 

 

As much as I dislike the human centric nature of the previous trilogy, it would make sense to narratively speaking to focus on a single protagonist than to have another Inquisitor situation. Shepard and Hawke weren't perfect but at least we got to experience and role-play their interactions better than we could with a generic title holder. BioWare's track record of adding in new non-human/alien elements to an existing setting, as well as their ability to have diverse and nuanced playable races is not very good. (IMO)

 

Maybe try and flesh out the aliens in MP a bit more; something like the depth of Evolve's hunters NOT DAMP's agents; would help bring some that roleplaying element to the setting without compromising the narrative cohesion. At any rate I'm still holding out for my Rachni Brood Warrior kit to scuttle around as. 

 

Now, I would love standalone games written for and focussed around specific aliens where you have a fixed turian/ salarian/ quarian protaganist, but I doubt that would have enough popular support to warrant developmental resources.

 

 

Agreed. I would love to see a race specific story for the other races but I highly doubt that we will see any full fledged stand alone titles; maybe if we're really, really lucky we'll get a DLC with the player as another species. 

 

 

[Vortex13]

Actually, I'd say elves have it worse in that aspect. For a Qunari or Dwarf it makes sense that you don't know a huge about about your race's culture due to the backstory. For a Dalish, it makes no sense at all, yet you still get loads of elven lore explained to you by humans....

 

 

Good point, but I would still stay the Dwarves got the shortest end of the stick (heh) when it came to roleplaying capabilities and reactivity. Content-wise the humans got the most (obviously) followed by the elves, and while the Quanari didn't fare much better than the Dwarves they did get a little more attention from the narrative than Cadash seeing as how big a role Iron Bull played in exploring the Talvashoth-Qun dynamic and could play off the Qunari player and his/her background. 

[PhroXenGold]

Good point, but I would still stay the Dwarves got the shortest end of the stick (heh) when it came to roleplaying capabilities and reactivity. Content-wise the humans got the most (obviously) followed by the elves, and while the Quanari didn't fare much better than the Dwarves they did get a little more attention from the narrative than Cadash seeing as how big a role Iron Bull played in exploring the Talvashoth-Qun dynamic and could play off the Qunari player and his/her background. 

 

I admit I haven't played a dwarf yet so I dunno how they are. Qunari annoyed me a bit as I was fed up with my character being referred to as a Tal-Vashoth when she isn't one without any way to correct people, but nothing that beats a Dalish being lectured on Dalish lore by Morrigan....

[Vortex13]

I don't think the majority of gamers want to go back to a silent protagonist since that was a criticism towards Dragon Age: Origins especially from console owners who had trouble reading that much dialogue on a television screen.  Now I am fine with having two voice actors for the protagonist one male and one female even with them sounding exactly like a human protagonist because I didn't really notice the difference between the voice actors after awhile in Inquisition for it was all the same dialogue.

 

 

I tend to be indifferent to the inclusion of a voiced protagonist, but it would be the first thing I would cut when it came to discussing resource allocation and word budget constraints; especially when talking about the inclusion of multiple playable species.

[Kierro Ren]

Actually, I'd say elves have it worse in that aspect. For a Qunari or Dwarf it makes sense that you don't know a huge about about your race's culture due to the backstory. For a Dalish, it makes no sense at all, yet you still get loads of elven lore explained to you by humans....

 

True, you get Elven lore explained to you, but so does a Qunari and Dwarf. However, the thing about the Elf PC, especially if they're a mage, you're clan Lavellen's first. Your job is to gain knowledge and prepare to lead the clan should Keeper Deshanna dies. Re-education never hurts 

Spoiler

Except for a Qun loyal The Iron Bull in trespasser.

, so that's easy explained for an Elf. No so much for a merc who gets pained by the highest bidder. The only time a Qunari or Dwarf seems to really make sense, is in trespasser. Compared to past Qunari/Tal'Vasoth, the PC has too much personality for a Qunari, Bull even says this.

 

Also, your Qunari is a Tal'Vasoth, it's even said in Backstory, after picking you character card. You aren't a true Qunari, no matter your head cannon.

[Panda]

There is a lot of content involving elves sure, but that doesn't mean it makes sense for the PC to be one. An elven Herald of Andraste would be like a black president of the US....in 1900 (in terms of how the people of Thedas would react). And yet nothing happens. Exactly the same things occur as when you're human. No matter that a member sub-human (as perceived) minority who have to put up with massive discrimination has just become one of the most powerful political and religious figures in Thedas, no-one cares beyond the odd remark about not expecting you to be an elf. The ramifications of being an elf in that position are simply ignored, and you end up with the game playing out the same as if you were a human, which is completely and utterly inconsistent with the lore of the setting.

 

Well our elven Inquisitor is not only Inquisitor who has been elven and worked with chantry.

 

However the Herald of Andraste part, I think it could have been done better. Usually all my characters no matter race pretty much deny and say they don't want anything to do with Andraste, but still the title on pushed on them. It would be nice if people close to you could at least cut it off.

[Vortex13]

I admit I haven't played a dwarf yet so I dunno how they are. Qunari annoyed me a bit as I was fed up with my character being referred to as a Tal-Vashoth when she isn't one without any way to correct people, but nothing that beats a Dalish being lectured on Dalish lore by Morrigan....

 

Maybe I'm blowing it up due to the extreme lack of Dwarven content in the vanilla game, but I could swear that there were only a handful of times that the game actually recognized me being a Dwarf and practically all of them were "Hey... you're a Dwarf". Even Dagna doesn't say anything extra to you, and Varric is practically a short human with a crossbow for all the insight or interaction he gives the player. 

 

 

Morrigan lecturing the elf PC on elf lore is annoying though. Personally, I think that the game would have been better served with only having humans and elves as playable. You might have still had instances like you mentioned, but at least we could have got a little more reactivity out of the bargain if BioWare didn't have to worry about Dwarves and Qunari.

[PhroXenGold]

Well our elven Inquisitor is not only Inquisitor who has been elven and worked with chantry.

 

However the Herald of Andraste part, I think it could have been done better. Usually all my characters no matter race pretty much deny and say they don't want anything to do with Andraste, but still the title on pushed on them. It would be nice if people close to you could at least cut it off.

 

What happened in the distant past is not really relevant to who the Thedas of "today" would react to an elf being given that much political power and being presented as significant figure in the people's religion. Hell, look at how the bigots started pouring out of the woodwork when Obama became president. And the way elves are treated and viewed is way worse than black people in America today. Yet nothing happens. A couple of bit of dialogue and that's it. It should be causing massive social upheaval, Cory be damned. Yet nothing. Its almost as if BW aren't prepared to fully explore the consequences of the world they've created.

[sleasye74]

There won't be multi races but they could star a Korgan, turian, Qurian, and so in the next game in the future. Focus on whatever race they choose just like BW has done with humans.

[Panda]

What happened in the distant past is not really relevant to who the Thedas of "today" would react to an elf being given that much political power and being presented as significant figure in the people's religion. Hell, look at how the bigots started pouring out of the woodwork when Obama became president. And the way elves are treated and viewed is way worse than black people in America today. Yet nothing happens. A couple of bit of dialogue and that's it. It should be causing massive social upheaval, Cory be damned. Yet nothing. Its almost as if BW aren't prepared to fully explore the consequences of the world they've created.

 

Elves weren't really treated better in the past though.