125 réponses à ce sujet

[Snakebite]

I can't decide on the best set of abilities for assassin on HB. Flank attack with bosun's is too useful especially if you screw up but should you use Deathblow? What do you replace? Deathblow really stretches your point investment and forces you to replace either twin fangs, hidden blades, flank attack, or even stealth itself.

 

Deathblow is nice, but you are right, it takes far too many points invested just to get that one ability.  Twin Fangs can do a lot of damage, but you only want to use it on completely isolated enemies otherwise the long recovery will lead to taking extra hits.  Also the fact that enemies have a tendency to turn and attack you as you use it out of Stealth, taking hits and failing to get flanking damage.

 

 

Wow... Well done guys. Impressive stuff.

Next challenge: HB solo with winter pact necro. Snackbot, make it so!

 

nevermind, was going to suggest a keeper solo build, but it would only work for qunari or darkspawn which of course aren't in HB.

 

What is wrong with you two?  The Necromancer should obviously have the Storm Pact Belt, and the Keeper should use the Inferno Pact Belt.  Otherwise it is too easy. 

[Proto]

Snackbot, make it so!

Lol!!!!

Snackbot, thank you for that Gya.

[Ralcur]

snip

 

Beautiful...didn't even need any health potions!  Thornton is such a badass 

[Drasca]

Could be done without a Bosun's Blade.  Flank Attack has a short cooldown, hit multiple enemies, gives Stealth that is superior to the actual ability "Stealth"... nope, this run showcases Flank Attack more than Bosun's Blade.

 

FA can also miss, as you've noted, and not give stealth. It isn't superior to stealth at all, and requires stealth as a fallback when FA does miss.

 

The damage without BB on FA is poor. That's the main drawback. BB solves that some of the time.

 

 

  How many missed?  How many hit the wrong enemy?

 

You did quite a few hits that weren't flanking, completely wasting your attack cd. I consider those misses / hitting wrong. Part of it was due to playstyle, you weren't patient enough to line things up.

 

Hidden Blades did most of the actual killing even when FA managed to do flanking damage. You might as well have not even tried to use FA for damage, and just use it for perma stealth with actual stealth as a back-up.

 

If you really want to try to prove to that FA is so amazing that you'd kill with just FA alone and no BB-- then go right ahead use FA as your primary damage with no other damage skills. Personally, I don't care for that grind.

 

I know how to use Fall Back Plan, it just doesn't lend itself well to how I used Flank Attack (large trains or groups), so it was useless.  Trying to use Fall Back Plan to move enemies into nice clean little trains would be such a huge waste of time an effort, because they automatically do it for you with absolutely no effort.  As I said, I was just testing out what abilities I wanted to use, but Flank Attack is so good that I completed on literally my first test.

 

You have this opinion because you obviously don't know how to make the trains with FBP. I can make them all line up and face the same direction by stringing them out, killing them in a much safer fashion.

 

Its BB that enables you to do this, otherwise you wouldn't do enough damage to kill enough and balance out the damage taken with Heal on Kill.

 

Double Hakkon's may also do enough damage (not sure, need to test), but even then is asking for BIS extreme RNG luck.

[ThatBruhYouDK]

Got murked at the end..If it wasn't for those damn horrors..

[Snakebite]

FA can also miss, as you've noted, and not give stealth. It isn't superior to stealth at all, and requires stealth as a fallback when FA does miss.

The damage without BB on FA is poor. That's the main drawback. BB solves that some of the time.

You did quite a few hits that weren't flanking, completely wasting your attack cd. I consider those misses / hitting wrong. Part of it was due to playstyle, you weren't patient enough to line things up.

Hidden Blades did most of the actual killing even when FA managed to do flanking damage.

Flank Attack does damage, can hit multiple enemies, has a short cooldown, and gives stealth that has infinite duration. Stealth's only advantage over Flank Attack is that you don't need to hit an enemy to activate it.

My opinion that Flank Attack is overpowered is not because it does a lot of damage, but because you can get permanent stealth very easily with it. I recall you saying earlier how your one zone with the Assassin was actually much more difficult than it looked. I will have to say that my Assassin solo was just as easy as it looked, if not easier. Reason? Flank Attack.

Even though damage was not the main purpose of using Flank Attack, I would still say I did about half my damage with it. I can get off 3+ Flank Attacks in the time it takes Hidden Blades to cooldowns, and usually only the first hit from Hidden Blades gets the Bosun's flanking bonus. Now, I'm not saying the damage is fantastic, because it wasn't. I would have preferred to use another damage ability, be it Twin Fangs or Deathblow to speed things up, but as I have said earlier, I cleared on what I was planning to only be a test run tryout for Fall Back Plan.

Most of my hits with Flank Attack that were not flanking were due to enemies turning around because I used Hidden Blades immediately beforehand, or because there was no way to line up multiple hits and get flanking on all of them, and are not due to poor positioning at all.

[Drasca]

Flank Attack does damage, can hit multiple enemies, has a short cooldown, and gives stealth that has infinite duration. Stealth's only advantage over Flank Attack is that you don't need to hit an enemy to activate it.

Most of my hits with Flank Attack that were not flanking were due to enemies turning around because I used Hidden Blades immediately beforehand, or because there was no way to line up multiple hits and get flanking on all of them, and are not due to poor positioning at all.

 

My main issue with FA is damage, and we both can agree on that. Secondary problems are that it if whiffs you're SOL and as you've noted lining them up for optimal damage is an issue.

 

Proper use of  FBP resolves the issue of controlling where they go, position and how they face.

 

FA actually isn't as easy as you point it because you do get hit quite a bit (requiring defensive stats / luck not to be one shot) and have to use stealth as a secondary, otherwise you'd drop stealth all together. I tried the latter and found FA alone was insufficient. If I had HB with BB + IWNH, I could pull it off, but if I had BB I wouldn't need FA. If it were really as easy as you said, everyone that wanted to do it could do it off FA alone. It isn't because FA isn't OP enough on its own.

 

FA is cute but it doesn't kill, relegating it to utility. Basically its cute, but not necessary.

 

FBP:

Looks like I'll have to make a video demonstrating how to take advantage of FBP since you don't know what I'm talking about. I'll try to when I find some time.

 

Double hakkons produces the damage I'm looking for, its just that all my gaming time has been going to FO4. Heh.

[ThatBruhYouDK]

My main issue with FA is damage, and we both can agree on that. Secondary problems are that it if whiffs you're SOL and as you've noted lining them up for optimal damage is an issue.

Proper use of FBP resolves the issue of controlling where they go, position and how they face.

FA actually isn't as easy as you point it because you do get hit quite a bit (requiring defensive stats / luck not to be one shot) and have to use stealth as a secondary, otherwise you'd drop stealth all together. I tried the latter and found FA alone was insufficient. If I had HB with BB + IWNH, I could pull it off, but if I had BB I wouldn't need FA. If it were really as easy as you said, everyone that wanted to do it could do it off FA alone. It isn't because FA isn't OP enough on its own.

FA is cute but it doesn't kill, relegating it to utility. Basically its cute, but not necessary.

FBP:
Looks like I'll have to make a video demonstrating how to take advantage of FBP since you don't know what I'm talking about. I'll try to when I find some time.

Double hakkons produces the damage I'm looking for, its just that all my gaming time has been going to FO4. Heh.

Flank Attack does plenty amount of damage. I was playing Assassin yesterday and was killing with it.


Disclaimer: I am pretty sure my willpower is higher than both of you so that probably helps a bit xD

[Drasca]

Flank Attack does plenty amount of damage. I was playing Assassin yesterday and was killing with it.


Disclaimer: I am pretty sure my willpower is higher than both of you so that probably helps a bit xD

 

Nah, its BB that does damage. FA is trash. Show me a video with FA does good damage without BB (or possibly x2 hakkons), and I'll show where you hax.

[ThatBruhYouDK]

Nah, its BB that does damage. FA is trash. Show me a video with FA does good damage without BB (or possibly x2 hakkons), and I'll show where you hax.

It doesn't matter what weapon I use. Damage is damage, whether I get it from BB, a bunch of passives, etc. You want me to show you without it so I will exclude anything that goes against you saying FA is garbage. Yes, it helps immensely, but it is a tool in my arsenal and I will use it on my assassin when I play her.

The damage I did to that Horror in HB was about 15.8K (8.5K on first 7.3K on second hit) damage total. But that isnt the point of FA, it is to get you into a permanent stealth. The damage is just a bonus. In NM and below with Silencer and Hakkon Dagger I get the same, sometime better, damage than that, which is enough to kill most enemies or get them really close to death.

 

TL;DR

Flank Attack is great, even more so if you know how to use it in place of stealth and get damage out of it using the tools in you tool bag (inventory)

 

Disclaimer: my willpower at time this video was shot (today: 11/15/2015) is 305. So I realize not everyone will get that damage, even in less than HB.

[Snakebite]

My main issue with FA is damage, and we both can agree on that. Secondary problems are that it if whiffs you're SOL and as you've noted lining them up for optimal damage is an issue.

 

It hardly misses once you actually get used to using it.  Lining up enemies isn't an issue either.  They do it automatically.  The only problem is that usually they turn to face you as you re-enter stealth, so they are facing in different directions, making it hard to hit multiple enemies with flanking damage on subsequent Flank Attacks.

 

 

FA actually isn't as easy as you point it because you do get hit quite a bit (requiring defensive stats / luck not to be one shot) and have to use stealth as a secondary, otherwise you'd drop stealth all together. I tried the latter and found FA alone was insufficient. If I had HB with BB + IWNH, I could pull it off, but if I had BB I wouldn't need FA. If it were really as easy as you said, everyone that wanted to do it could do it off FA alone. It isn't because FA isn't OP enough on its own.

 

I probably would drop Stealth altogether if I ever made another solo with the Assassin.  I used it somewhere around 10 times due to Flank Attack not giving stealth... in almost 2 hours.  Not a big deal when considering its short cooldown.  You probably find it insufficient because you don't understand how to use it properly.  Maybe I should make a video showing how to use Flank Attack and not miss all over the place with it.

 

 

FBP:

Looks like I'll have to make a video demonstrating how to take advantage of FBP since you don't know what I'm talking about. I'll try to when I find some time.

 

Fall Back Plan is useless in conjunction with Flank Attack because enemies line up for you automatically.  As soon as you use your first Flank Attack after painstakingly placing them where you want them, they start turning and moving, ruining your perfect little train and turning it into exactly what would happen if you just pull them like normal.  Basically, it's cute, unnecessary, and doesn't even serve a function not already being performed by enemy AI. 

[Drasca]

The damage I did to that Horror in HB was about 15.8K (8.5K on first 7.3K on second hit) damage total.

 

Proves nothing (especially with 300 willpower). Can't even see daggers, let alone anything else involved. Videos like this should show complete gear setup (including weapon mods), and stats.

[ThatBruhYouDK]

Proves nothing (especially with 300 willpower). Can't even see daggers, let alone anything else involved. Videos like this should show complete gear setup (including weapon mods), and stats.

It does prove that FA doesn't suck. Just like gear: promotions and attachments and abilities are tools. Know what to do and you will get damage out of the ability.
Your argument is invalid.

[Drasca]

I used it somewhere around 10 times due to Flank Attack not giving stealth... in almost 2 hours.

 

I'm skeptical that's how often you used stealth. Regardless

 

Any miss with the way you're playing, dropping into the middle of a mob, can lead to fatality. So you've lost perspective, even if you didn't have to use stealth from missing, you're subjecting yourself to total failure of the run.

 

In a non solo game, FA isn't necessary. In a solo game FA isn't necessary with BB (or similiarly ridiculous willpower, as it'd one shot enemies with super high willpower). In a HB game, missing FA and being out of stealth, especially into the middle of a mob, can spell the end of the mission due to stagger lock / being one shot as an assassin.

 

The other counter-arguement is RNG equipment based, use PI / BB. If I had those, I wouldn't use FA.

[Drasca]

It does prove that FA doesn't suck. Just like gear: promotions and attachments and abilities are tools. Know what to do and you will get damage out of the ability.
Your argument is invalid.

 

LOL Promotion is a tool, yes you are a tool that requires hacks to get where you are.

[ThatBruhYouDK]

LOL Promotion is a tool, yes you are a tool that requires hacks to get where you are.

That's fine, I couldn't care less either way. You can't complain though about that. You use "hacks" (ie. Exploits

[Proto]

I'm skeptical that's how often you used stealth. Regardless

 

Any miss with the way you're playing, dropping into the middle of a mob, can lead to fatality. So you've lost perspective, even if you didn't have to use stealth from missing, you're subjecting yourself to total failure of the run.

 

In a non solo game, FA isn't necessary. In a solo game FA isn't necessary with BB (or similiarly ridiculous willpower, as it'd one shot enemies with super high willpower). In a HB game, missing FA and being out of stealth, especially into the middle of a mob, can spell the end of the mission due to stagger lock / being one shot as an assassin.

 

The other counter-arguement is RNG equipment based, use PI / BB. If I had those, I wouldn't use FA.

 

Lol...Flank Attack is OP. When you get your Bosun's you'll understand. 

 

Only reason this Solo was possible was because of Flank Attack and its superior stealth. 

[Drasca]

Lol...Flank Attack is OP. When you get your Bosun's you'll understand. 

 

Only reason this Solo was possible was because of Flank Attack and its superior stealth. 

 

Pfft, you know RNG is a troll. Bosun's not an option for me.

 

The reason SB's solo was possible was due to SB talent & promotes + Bosun. I do agree that he needed BOTH FA and Stealth to make FA work though.

 

However, non BB / FA solo is doable -- just harder.

[ThatBruhYouDK]

However, non BB / FA solo is doable -- just harder.

Eh...I wouldn't say harder. Just longer, you will pretty much always be in stealth. Just will be dealing less damage without that 500% boost

[Snakebite]

The reason SB's solo was possible was due to SB talent & promotes + Bosun. I do agree that he needed BOTH FA and Stealth to make FA work though.

 

Not talent.  Only patience.  The hardest things are lining up enemies for Flank Attack and making sure you can break line of sight if Knights zap you.  Those two things are not hard.  I am somewhat of an authority on this... seeing as I actually did it.

[ThatBruhYouDK]

Not talent. Only patience. The hardest things are lining up enemies for Flank Attack and making sure you can break line of sight if Knights zap you. Those two things are not hard. I am somewhat of an authority on this... seeing as I actually did it.

I remember trying Assassin HB solo when I was lower on promotes. I got through round 1 with no problem at all. The fade cloak mages fucked me up on zone 2...might have to give it a try so I can be an authority on this as well

[Snakebite]

I remember trying Assassin HB solo when I was lower on promotes. I got through round 1 with no problem at all. The fade cloak mages fucked me up on zone 2...might have to give it a try so I can be an authority on this as well

 

Still waiting on your Avvar solo 

[ThatBruhYouDK]

Still waiting on your Avvar solo

Dude..work is such an overload. If I get an opportunity when I am not tired I will. Probably this weekend. I have a game of smash bros that I have to wreck on first then I will do it...Ganondorf here I come

[Jugger nuggss]

I'll never do eeet

[Drasca]

Not talent.  Only patience.

 

Patience is a skill.

 

Eh...I wouldn't say harder. Just longer, you will pretty much always be in stealth. Just will be dealing less damage without that 500% boost

 

Definitely harder because you won't have enough HoK to deal with chip damage without promotes/damage, and it is easy to get killed outside of stealth if you make any mistakes-- of which I saw plenty despite SB's protests otherwise.

 

 

The fade cloak mages fucked me up on zone 2...

 

Perfect example of being gibbed upon any mistake, and HB has plenty more.