59 réponses à ce sujet

[The_Mac23]

Think he is correct in that no Maker exists? Or you think it's a case of an all omnipotent Creator being many steps ahead of a man with bloodthirsty intent?

Remember: he does say he has seen the THRONE of the gods and it was empty. So there was a seat. Way I see it, the Maker has no reason to humor a man like Corypheus, who used brutal methods and followed false promises of god hood to trespass heaven.

What are your thoughts?

[thats1evildude]

To paraphrase Sera, a throne needs a butt. So something used to sit there.

[The Baconer]

I don't think it's the Maker's crib. Why would it even need a chair. 

[BansheeOwnage]

I don't think it's the Maker's crib. Why would it even need a chair. 

Exactly. Humans have always anthropomorphized their gods.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I'm not sure either Sera or Corypheus meant he literally saw an empty chair. The Golden City itself was said to be the Throne of the Gods or the Seat of the Maker. 

[LorenzEffect]

Exactly. He could well be speaking figuratively.

[The Baconer]

It doesn't really matter if the throne is literal or not (even though it not being literal kind of hampers Sera's statement more than anything). A chair, a cushion to squat on, a city... it's all the same. 

 

We know the Blight predates the Magisters' trespassing, we know that entire demiplanes can be constructed via magic. I think it's a slim chance the Maker built the Golden/Black City, or even cares about it. 

[The_Mac23]

So what do you think it is? I think they are linked. It'd be all too easy to say the Chantry has everything wrong. I hope we soon learn in upcoming installments what exactly the Blight is and how it started. Going to the Black Coty would simply be amazing.

[The_Mac23]

City***

[Ashagar]

Think he is correct in that no Maker exists? Or you think it's a case of an all omnipotent Creator being many steps ahead of a man with bloodthirsty intent?

Remember: he does say he has seen the THRONE of the gods and it was empty. So there was a seat. Way I see it, the Maker has no reason to humor a man like Corypheus, who used brutal methods and followed false promises of god hood to trespass heaven.

What are your thoughts?

 

Yes there is likely a maker in story, I don't think even Coryphueus truly believes he doesn't exist, it was more a break you with words speech to make you not resist him, in his own memory crystal journals he refers to the maker as a absent god that people pray to but does not answer and that he would give the people a god that is present and will answer prayers.

 

The Maker is the same creator deity the ancient Northern Neromenians tribes brought the belief of to Thadas in ancient times before they turned to the worship of the old gods and that the later Tevinter Imperium still believed in and honored him with a festival for creating the world even as they worshiped the old gods.

 

However we don't know much about the maker or rather we don't know much about the ancient pre-andrastian worship and beliefs about him and even the later beliefs we know about are all southern chantry beliefs and not Tevinter Chantry or one of the minor Andraste sects.

 

We do know he was the only known deity of the Northern Neromenian tribes before they started worshiping the old gods, that they brought his worship to Thadas and that they thought he created the world. We also know the later Tevinter imperium also believed he created the world and that the Golden City was his seat, its unknown if the golden city was associated with the maker before the Tevinter Imperium though or if it was a belief that came later as Tevinter came to dominate Thadas. We do know that one of the reason old god worship began was the Maker wasn't known for answering prayers and giving his followers earthly rewards while the old gods did both. So its likely the maker was already absent or at least not interfering by the time of the old gods started whispering into the ears of men.

 

If the chant which is sometimes wrong and sometimes right is to believed the maker seems to believe in free will which would likely explain why he doesn't intervene in earthly affairs, any intervention by him would infringe on the free will of his creations. Makes me wonder if he really did turn away from creation that it wasn't because of the old gods whispering into the ears of men but because of the ancient elf elders setting themselves up as god kings, not to mention what they did to the dragons and Titans.

[Illegitimus]

Think he is correct in that no Maker exists? Or you think it's a case of an all omnipotent Creator being many steps ahead of a man with bloodthirsty intent?

Remember: he does say he has seen the THRONE of the gods and it was empty. So there was a seat. Way I see it, the Maker has no reason to humor a man like Corypheus, who used brutal methods and followed false promises of god hood to trespass heaven.

What are your thoughts?

 

I am quite confident that even if the Maker exists, it never dwelled in the Golden/Blackened City.  I suspect the vacant throne that Corypheus saw belonged to the Elven sun god.  

[BloodKaiden]

Even if he does exist why would it matter to those in Thedas? I mean how times does a "god" you worship have to turn his back on you before you get the hint? He doesn't speak to those who whisper him unlike Dumat or the OG's. Why praise someone(thing) that obviously doesn't care about you.

[Ariella]

I am quite confident that even if the Maker exists, it never dwelled in the Golden/Blackened City.  I suspect the vacant throne that Corypheus saw belonged to the Elven sun god.  

 

I agree with you in that if the Maker exists He was never in the Golden City. However, I don't think Corypheus is speaking of a literal seat or throne.

 

We talk about a 'seat of power', or a noble having a 'properly titled seat we're not talking about an actual chair, we're talking about a location. The former is a place of power for an individual, and the latter is usually where their main home is within their lands. I'm almost positive that Corypheus is using a poetic device in that, not referring to a physical object. Especially since he uses the plural 'gods'.

[Ashagar]

Even if he does exist why would it matter to those in Thedas? I mean how times does a "god" you worship have to turn his back on you before you get the hint? He doesn't speak to those who whisper him unlike Dumat or the OG's. Why praise someone(thing) that obviously doesn't care about you.

 

I would say that the fact that he doesn't generally doesn't interfere speaks far better of him than the rest of the gods of the setting, given how monstrous the old gods and the elven god kings were. I mean the maker supposedly a firm believer in free will which if he interfered with the world he would be negatively impacting people's free will and ability to choose. If anything it makes him the only good God in the setting.

[The_Mac23]

And we know the Maker visited Leliana in a dream when we met her in Lothering. He exists. But unlike the false gods, he isn't a magic genie who grants wishes or promises of power. Seems like he gives creation the free will it desires.

[The Baconer]

And we know the Maker visited Leliana in a dream when we met her in Lothering.

 

Yeeeeah... probably not. 

[ComedicSociopathy]

A deity that doesn't actually influence the material world might as well not exist.

[Ashagar]

A real god wouldn't need to to actively influence the material world and also does that really matter in a setting where there is at least one non-material realm, the fade, which is filled with spirits and demons and though which the spirits of the dead pass though on their way to unknown location beyond it?

[ComedicSociopathy]

A real god wouldn't need to to actively influence the material world and also does that really matter in a setting where there is at least one non-material realm, the fade, which is filled with spirits and demons and though which the spirits of the dead pass though on their way to unknown location beyond it?

 

Yeah, but I'd give of more of a care about him if he did. Plus, doing so would really help with stopping crazy people like Corypheus from having a freakout about the whole thing. 

[Ashagar]

Yah but I've also when was the last time someone truly tried to contact him and ask him for even just advice? Andraste?

[The Baconer]

Yah but I've also when was the last time someone truly tried to contact him and ask him for even just advice? Andraste?

 

That's probably happened countless times since then, to be honest. Depending on what "truly trying to contact him" consists of, that is. 

[ComedicSociopathy]

Yah but I've also when was the last time someone truly tried to contact him and ask him for even just advice? Andraste?

 

I'm sure a lot of people have been asking for his advice and praying for him to intervene and save them. In fact, we see alot of characters in franchise do exactly that. But apparently the Maker is still angry about six mages breaking and entering his pad so I suppose all those people have to go unanswered or die horribly. Oh well. Original Sin is really crappy. 

 

Or maybe he was to busy screwing his Bride to care about the world below him. Yeah, that makes a lot more sense.   

[The_Mac23]

Who is to say he hasn't answered? Apparently followers of the Maker still exist. Wouldn't be the case if no prayer was answered.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Who is to say he hasn't answered? Apparently followers of the Maker still exist. Wouldn't be the case if no prayer was answered.

 

Not necessarily true. A religion that worships a god that never directly and obviously answers prays in an undeniable manner could easily continue to exist. Look at, well, every single religion in the modern day that still exists after several centuries.

[Ashagar]

If nothing else nobody would likely notice if the maker did do subtle things, mostly because its not impressive and flashy... and things that aren't impressive and flashy tends to escape people's notice. Also I will admit I would not surprised if the maker did sent several prophets after andraste but because everyone was so certain he left that they were ignored as mad or killed and brushed into the dustbin of history by the chantries.