It's moronic to say that they should market every feature just because it's in the game. Reading codex entries is also a part of the game but I don't see you demanding they put that in the trailers.
main features such as character customization, gameplay, exploration should be marketed in the trailers
Edit: I'd probably like about 15k people to be polled from each of the top hardcore and mainstream video game regions before I even consider about actually taking studies like this seriously.
I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of statisticians suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced.
I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of statisticians suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced.
lol! Yes, clearly your excellent link showing that a sample size of 4,000 is more than enough statistically is being ignored for non-nefarious reasons. 
Plenty of people are told how they should write their books actually but that's neither here nor there.
And yes I could not buy his books (and I don't) but I can also mention that I have a problem with it. He is, after all, under no compunction to change his work for me, no? 1. What's more I have no interest in living in a world where I pretend that the media we consume and choose to consume does not influence our attitude and thinking so if the chance arises I will mention that I find the way someone chooses to represent something as problematic or 'not to my tastes.'
Well that's true offcourse... but thankfully you rarely see the kind of public focus and pressure on authors before releasing a book, that eg. the videogaming industry is under.
1. It does, but only very slightly. A normally intelligent and mentally healthy adult will not change his/her's fundamental beliefs and/or morals over any book, song, game, movie and what not.
Those fundamental beliefs and/or morals are shaped much, much, much more through constant daily interactions with family, friends, classmates, coworkers and so forth.
So no... games do not make people violent/sexist/x, as all reputable studies have shown.
If you really wanna change things for the better, you should argue for timely and effective treatment for mental illnesses and better checks on child welfare (trust no parent? theyre gonna screw up?).
If I bought that game I can guarantee you that I'd be in the fetal position asleep at my desk within half an hour.
Whether or not you feel that people playing casually should count as gamers, females are on the rise in the gaming community and it makes sense that the developers feature them. If you can play as a female of course.
1. So, now, the goal post is moved from women only play casual mobile games to women don't own the right console and don't play the 'right' games on the console. Come on. The point being made is that women are a market of gamers that developers can and should take into consideration when producing and advertising their games. And, clearly, that is exactly what is happening.
2. Please back up that opinion with data.
Oh, and see my edited post above for response to 3.
1. I'm not saying that, it's just that these studies are so vague, a disc-based game could be anything, a little clarity on what this pertains to wouldn't hurt.
Another thing is, if women are such an untapped market, why is it that so many games with female leads almost always doesn't sell well enough to warrant a response. You'd think that more women would be buying these game just on principle, to show that they actually are an untapped market.
2. No data is needed, it was a personal opinion influenced by my limited experience in dealing with kids who play on consoles, I was one such kid as well, as were my cousins and friends from school.
3. Being from ESA doesn't mean a thing, especially since entities such as the U.N are reporting non-sense from time to time. Where are they getting this data from, a graph with numbers does not constitute as research. They say America has 190mil gamers and 48% of them are female, I say no evidence to prove their claims.
The fact that this thread is even going shows there is an issue.
It should be a non issue that a female is shown in the marketing equally with the male. It should be a non issue that the game is marketed to both genders.
It should also be a non issue that female characters have the same depth of design and characterisation as a male one.
There are no death threats or "eww girl cooties" here from what I observed.
The fact that this thread is even going shows there is an issue.
It should be a non issue that a female is shown in the marketing equally with the male. It should be a non issue that the game is marketed to both genders.
It should also be a non issue that female characters have the same depth of design and characterisation as a male one.
It's actually quite note worthy when male and female characters get marketed like this because it really just doesn't happen.
Even BioWare who has marketed femshep, did so in her own "female trailer".
It should be a non issue, but that's just not how things are.
Not making a huge deal over it when it does happen would be a start. Not making a huge fuss when it doesn't would help as well.It's actually quite note worthy when male and female characters get marketed like this because it really just doesn't happen.
Even BioWare who has marketed femshep, did so in her own "female trailer".
It should be a non issue, but that's just not how things are.
The fact that this thread is even going shows there is an issue.
It should be a non issue that a female is shown in the marketing equally with the male. It should be a non issue that the game is marketed to both genders.
It should also be a non issue that female characters have the same depth of design and characterisation as a male one.
Have you ever complained about the fact that less than 50 percent of ladies underwear models are men?
Written them a mail pointing out that sexist problem?
Or should it be possible to make your product and advertisements be representative of the demographics of the customers?
main features such as character customization, gameplay, exploration should be marketed in the trailers
Indeed.
Why design so much character customization and not showcase it?
Or should it be possible to make your product and advertisements be representative of the demographics of the customers?
Umm, women play the Fallout games.
Heck, men play women in the Fallout games.
There has, in fact, always been a female option, going back to the 90s with the original games.
So what's wrong with including that aspect in advertising?
1. I'm not saying that, it's just that these studies are so vague, a disc-based game could be anything, a little clarity on what this pertains to wouldn't hurt.
Another thing is, if women are such an untapped market, why is it that so many games with female leads almost always doesn't sell well enough to warrant a response. You'd think that more women would be buying these game just on principle, to show that they actually are an untapped market.
2. No data is needed, it was a personal opinion influenced by my limited experience in dealing with kids who play on consoles, I was one such kid as well, as were my cousins and friends from school.
3. Being from ESA doesn't mean a thing, especially since entities such as the U.N are reporting non-sense from time to time. Where are they getting this data from, a graph with numbers does not constitute as research. They say America has 190mil gamers and 48% of them are female, I say no evidence to prove their claims.
Let's recap as we seem to be losing sight of what was initially being argued in this thread. The argument being made that I responded to was that women aren't a significant enough market of gamers to have our perspectives taken into account in game development and advertising. The statistics I provided by reputable sources (despite your claims, trade associations and ad research group are reputable as they provide marketing data) show that women make up at least half the market and own the majority of consoles. The next argument being made is that women are only casual mobile gamers which is refuted by the fact that the stats show that half the women surveyed have played console games. Another study in the Washington Post showed a sample and the percentages of how many women play games ranging from Madden to GTA to the Sims, etc.
Putting all of this data together shows that women make up approximately half of the gaming market and play 'hard core' as well as 'casual' games on their consoles. Based on this data, it is not an unreasonable expectation that women's perspectives should be taken into account when developing and marketing games. Is anyone honestly arguing against this position?
Now as to why female led games haven't sold better, please name some games. I'm not disagreeing but part of the problem has historically been that women were driven away from the market by poor treatment and are just now coming back. Another problem is that female led games aren't advertised as well. Another issue could be with the game itself and how the lead was treated by the developers. Without some examples, it's hard to say why a game didn't sell very well.
You'd be surprised how many people take Mcintosh seriously.
Anyways, I think it's cool with a woman in the trailer a well.
If it's because they've made a game that appeals to women (and men), because they wanted to and not just because of PR and social pressure to force them in one particular direction.
I like bethesda games too and I'm really really looking forward to fo4. I will be waiting to buy til after a few reviews tho. Just to get the major stresstesting out of the way and confirm that it is good (tho I think it will be).
PS: Obviously I look for different things in a bethesda game than I do in a bioware game.
Have you ever complained about the fact that less than 50 percent of ladies underwear models are men?
Written them a mail pointing out that sexist problem?
Or should it be possible to make your product and advertisements be representative of the demographics of the customers?
Nice comparison.
Except it's not. Women's lingerie is obviously marketed towards women because men can't or won't wear them (in the vast, vast majority of cases, and leaving transgenders aside as their own topic).
However, women can play Fallout 4. Men can play Fallout 4 as women. Women can play Fallout 4 as men. Such as the series has allowed since the very first game.
With that in mind, how in the blazes is featuring the female PC in a trailer not targeting a demographic of the series? Or should we look at the % of players who play females, and give that exact % as screentime in trailers and not one second more?
1. It does, but only very slightly. A normally intelligent and mentally healthy adult will not change his/her's fundamental beliefs and/or morals over any book, song, game, movie and what not.
Not any one tv show, book, game or movie, certainly. An aggregate though? The vast majority that only send out the same monolithic message? It does influence thinking and the attitudes you hold. The entire ad industry is based off of the premise that the media can influence your attitudes and behavior. The colossal cultural attitude shifts we have undergone within less than a lifetime is in large part because of the ability the media has to disseminate the same message across a lot of people very quickly [also our ability to then get in touch with a lot of similar minded people] and sometimes very effectively.
Those fundamental beliefs and/or morals are shaped much, much, much more through constant daily interactions with family, friends, classmates, coworkers and so forth.
This is true, interactions with people around you have substantially more influence on your attitudes and opinions than the media does. And if you consistently interact with the people who 1) shared similar attitudes and predispositions to begin with (as you would imagine you'd get with a family or people who grew up in the same town/city/country/timeframe] and 2) are exposed to the same kind of media on a daily basis it becomes a self-reinforcing loop. Everyone sees the same things and everyone just agrees that this is how things are/have always been because that's what you keep hearing.
Dissenting voices used to be able to be shushed quickly cuz they just had no one to be dissenting with and so nothing changed. Now, a nice side effect of technological advancement is that you can hook up with a bunch of other dissenting views and yell till someone listens. Now in this instance we're yelling about gender representation in games and its effects on what is considered 'acceptable' for females to do, like playing games or being a hero. Or at least that's what I'm yelling about. If you never see any female heroes pop up in the media you consume on a daily basis from the day you're born and the people around you don't either it reinforces the idea that 'you aren't supposed to do that.'
You keep hammering on the idea that women should be entitled to more representation if they made up a bigger market share. But the two things don't exist in completely separate spheres. A reason for why they don't make up a bigger market share is because they are not made to feel welcome, there are not enough cultural greenlights to say 'this is something you can do and enjoy.' Trailer representation would be a part of that. And so easy for the studios to implement.
The fact that this thread is even going shows there is an issue.
.
Let's recap as we seem to be losing sight of what was initially being argued in this thread. The argument being made that I responded to was that women aren't a significant enough market of gamers to have our perspectives taken into account in game development and advertising. The statistics I provided by reputable sources (despite your claims, trade associations and ad research group are reputable as they provide marketing data) show that women make up at least half the market and own the majority of consoles. The next argument being made is that women are only casual mobile gamers which is refuted by the fact that the stats show that half the women surveyed have played console games. Another study in the Washington Post showed a sample and the percentages of how many women play games ranging from Madden to GTA to the Sims, etc.
Putting all of this data together shows that women make up approximately half of the gaming market and play 'hard core' as well as 'casual' games on their consoles. Based on this data, it is not an unreasonable expectation that women's perspectives should be taken into account when developing and marketing games. Is anyone honestly arguing against this position?
Now as to why female led games haven't sold better, please name some games. I'm not disagreeing but part of the problem has historically been that women were driven away from the market by poor treatment and are just now coming back. Another problem is that female led games aren't advertised as well. Another issue could be with the game itself and how the lead was treated by the developers. Without some examples, it's hard to say why a game didn't sell very well.
The statistics you provided were minor and one of them was just a bunch of graphs and numbers, it did not say if women play hardcore games or mainstream games. It was all console games or disc-based games.
Women do not make up a large enough percentage of the mainstream market to change developers and publishers view on catering AAA games to women. The type of games I've seen marketed to women are casual games, because that is what the majority of them play.
Remember Me, The Longest Journey, Beyond Good and Evil, Parasite Eve, BloodRayne, Alien Isolation (disappointing sales according to Sega) and Bayonetta.
Everything and everyone is subject to humor.
I would normally agree, but then someone prints something and people get killed over it and it gets abit more difficult to see the world through that lens. Tough i do enjoy the South Park perspective, everything can be made fun of and should from time to time. Not to scorn, but just so that everything is equal, as it is.
I would normally agree, but then someone prints something and people get killed over it and its abit harder to see the world through that lens. Tough i do enjoy the South Park perspective, everything can be made fun of and should from time to time. Not to scorn, but just so that everything is equal, as it is.
Everything is better with South Park 
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