687 réponses à ce sujet

[Seboist]

Your second part undermines your first part - because we have so many male protagonists there is less placed on them because there are so many other examples available.

As you yourself pointed out, there are even less this year than the last - so there is bound to be less variety just from a basic numbers point of view.

I'd love to see a female version of Max Payne for example - why the hell not?

 

One thing which you overlook is publisher pressure to create male protags regardless of the story or setting - look at the trouble Dontnod had in getting LIS published because everyone they went to wanted to change the lead to a man.

 

Given how their last game with a female lead was a dud, that's understandable.

[KaiserShep]

Given how their last game with a female lead was a dud, that's understandable.

 

I doubt Remember Me would have been any better with a male lead though. The combat was like a cheaper less fun version of Arkham City. That game should honestly have just been a short film or something. 

[von uber]

Given how their last game with a female lead was a dud, that's understandable.

 I have not played Remember Me so don't know how good it is or isn't, but a poor game is a poor game regardless of the gender of the lead, surely?

[Killdren88]

What excuse? They have better things to worry about then sift through every single complaint thread, nit picking criticism thread that pop up here

[Panda]

You're  wrong and you're not listening.

White girls are doing far better then white boys from the same class.

 

It's very much female privilege. Our education system is catering more and more towards women and femininity, while masculinity is treated like a disease and boys are being punished for merely being boys, even more so if they happen to be white on top of that.

 

The numbers don't lie: http://www.bbc.co.uk...equality-report

 

That's about education though, it doesn't mean that they are in worse position than women and other races of men when they grow up. How does the lacking education hinder their lives when they are adults? That also doesn't really tell what is the problem with education it gives guesses but isn't sure. You claim that it's because education system is catering women, but against masculinity, but you don't give examples what ways. What would be neutral education for both genders, how it would be different from what there is now? There was bit similar study about my country, though it mentioned that despite boys performing worse in school and universities being filled with women boys still tend to get higher job positions and salaries so in the end it didn't seem like not doing well in education hindered boys compared to girls.

 

Anyone consider that maybe, just maybe we see an abundance of straight white male characters starring in games because devs have complete creative freedom over such a character? That they can do whatever they want with a straight white guy and everyone won't flip their lid?

 

When creating a female protagonist, they have to adhere to an arbitrary checklist of things they can't do with her, otherwise it's "problematic."

 

She has to be "strong"

She can't be too attractive, and definitely not sexualised

She can't be too ugly either

She can't be vulnerable 

She can't be placed in compromising positions, especially with men

She can't be inept

She can't be upstaged by a man at any point

She can't be mentally deficient in any way

 

The list goes on and on.

 

White male protagonists can be all of this and so much more, they can be cowardly, comically inept, lecherous, insane, insecure, a drunk etc. Why? Because male characters aren't expected to represent their entire gender, they are individuals, and are treated as such. They can be the butt of jokes, or ridiculed morons and it isn't taken as "they're taking a shot at all white guys." As long as devs are afraid to make women/LGBT characters because of the reaction they usually receive from the people who WANT their inclusion, they are going to stay with what's safe. They can make a Trevor Phillips or a Guybrush Threepwood and not be demonised for it. Imagine the reaction to a female counterpart to either of those two.

 

That is bit of problem, I have seen some people especially wanting good representation and not liking characters who they think are bad representation. I get why they want that, but I think discouraging devs from making characters doesn't bring that. There needs to be more characters, good, bad, grey, not simply good one's. I think it will get shorted out though in the end, when there is more female and LGBT+ characters around it isn't that big deal if they are good or bad representation.

 

Actually people seem mostly want complex female characters. Those who are simply strong are frown upon a bit. People want "good" characters, meaning complex and different one's instead of Mary Sues and so on.

[Hazegurl]

Q: Do you think more female gamers might play the game if they were aware they could play as a female in game?

A: Yes.

 

Disclaimer: I wouldn't mind it one bit if BW put together a good trailer showing both the male and female PC.  Heck I actually wouldn't mind it if BW just create a game that includes both a male and female PC.  But I'm probably saying this because I just finished Telltale's Tales from the borderlands. The writing for both PCs were so good I wouldn't mind experiencing it again.

 

However, any gamer who would pass up on a game solely based on the gender of the PC is an idiot who doesn't deserve to be catered to. It's not like a poorly put together game with a crappy PC will suddenly become a jewel just because you can play a certain gender.

[Ariella]

Disclaimer: I wouldn't mind it one bit if BW put together a good trailer showing both the male and female PC.  Heck I actually wouldn't mind it if BW just create a game that includes both a male and female PC.  But I'm probably saying this because I just finished Telltale's Tales from the borderlands. The writing for both PCs were so good I wouldn't mind experiencing it again.
 
However, any gamer who would pass up on a game solely based on the gender of the PC is an idiot who doesn't deserve to be catered to. It's not like a poorly put together game with a crappy PC will suddenly become a jewel just because you can play a certain gender.

I was wandering around looking for something to buy myself for my birthday. I'd heard decent things about Divinity Original Sin, but there was no indication if I could play a female character or not. I had to go running around the net to find out something that should have been part of the basic information.

I liked Jansen from Deus Ex. I'm actually looking forward to the next one. There've been a couple other games with set protags that were male I enjoyed. But if there's any customization I prefer to play women. And it's nice to just have it in the literature with other custom options.

[wolfhowwl]

Holy ****, that ending.

 

[KingofTime]

Just got spoiled for F4 ending. ****** hell. What a load of garbage. Dunno why expected anything but a garbage story/writing from Betheseda.

 

Thanks Todd.

[Andrew Lucas]

Like Bioware never have done a female trailer, or a mixed one.

Flash news : they did, Bioware is more than fine about this.

[Mr.House]

Like Bioware never have done a female trailer, or a mixed one.

Flash news : they did, Bioware is more than fine about this.

Not with voices.

[Mr.House]

Just got spoiled for F4 ending. ****** hell. What a load of garbage. Dunno why expected anything but a garbage story/writing from Betheseda.

 

Thanks Todd.

PM me, I want to hear it.

[The Hierophant]

PM me, I want to hear it.

Spoiler me after you're done. (no sexual)

[Andrew Lucas]

Not with voices.

Good joke.

[Akrabra]

Just got spoiled for F4 ending. ****** hell. What a load of garbage. Dunno why expected anything but a garbage story/writing from Betheseda.

 

Thanks Todd.

Todd isn't a writer on the team though. He is just project leader. He writes alot of lore for TES on the other hand. 

[Jaison1986]

Just got spoiled for F4 ending. ****** hell. What a load of garbage. Dunno why expected anything but a garbage story/writing from Betheseda.

 

Thanks Todd.

 

 PM me too. I don't mind spoilers.

[SmilesJA]

Anyone consider that maybe, just maybe we see an abundance of straight white male characters starring in games because devs have complete creative freedom over such a character? That they can do whatever they want with a straight white guy and everyone won't flip their lid?

 

When creating a female protagonist, they have to adhere to an arbitrary checklist of things they can't do with her, otherwise it's "problematic."

 

She has to be "strong"

She can't be too attractive, and definitely not sexualised

She can't be too ugly either

She can't be vulnerable 

She can't be placed in compromising positions, especially with men

She can't be inept

She can't be upstaged by a man at any point

She can't be mentally deficient in any way

 

The list goes on and on.

 

White male protagonists can be all of this and so much more, they can be cowardly, comically inept, lecherous, insane, insecure, a drunk etc. Why? Because male characters aren't expected to represent their entire gender, they are individuals, and are treated as such. They can be the butt of jokes, or ridiculed morons and it isn't taken as "they're taking a shot at all white guys." As long as devs are afraid to make women/LGBT characters because of the reaction they usually receive from the people who WANT their inclusion, they are going to stay with what's safe. They can make a Trevor Phillips or a Guybrush Threepwood and not be demonised for it. Imagine the reaction to a female counterpart to either of those two.

 

Agreed! Sometimes it feels that people can't decide on what they want in a female character. They shout out: "Strong female character!" But they don't want to add nuance on what makes a three dimensional character.

[Mr.House]

Todd isn't a writer on the team though. He is just project leader. He writes alot of lore for TES on the other hand. 

He has to approve of the writing and considering all the cliches in the launch trailer, it's no surprise the ending is garbage.

[Flog the Undying]

^^ at the same time, though, it's been a common thread throughout the history of fiction that female characters are more limited in their presentation not because of 'misandryyyyyy' but misogyny. Take the Iliad, where all female mortals fall into one of two molds - mother or lover (the former, Hekabe, the latter, Briseis, Helen, Andromache). The males, on the other hand, are immensely varied. Is that the result of incredibly liberal and vocal iron age feminists, do you suppose?

 

Basically - both sides contribute to the limitation of how women are represented, it's not just the side you like less. And historically, which cannot be ignored, it's always been more of a problem with the favouring male complexity/reducing women down to their relationships to men (mother/lover) due, primarily, to men doing the vast majority of writing. Which, I believe, still is the case on Bethesda's writing staff (?).

[Mercyva]

i'll play as a female regardless, but... though the male is handsome, somehow i cant get with the voice actor. in many trailers i watched his performance was... still. and kinda boring? idk. in a bethesda game where you spend hundreds of hours, i cant play a male when the voice bores me (i want my male character to have, a bit deeper voice, yes i can be picky, but its what i like).... maybe i'm the only one that think this, i'd rather look at a male in an RPG where you can get lost in a world... i cant get pass the voice someone help please. idk, maybe something is wrong with my ear.

[Mr.House]

i'll play as a female regardless, but... though the male is handsome, somehow i cant get with the voice actor. in many trailers i watched his performance was... still. and kinda boring? idk. in a bethesda game where you spend hundreds of hours, i cant play a male when the voice bores me.... maybe i'm the only one that think this, i'd rather look at a male in an RPG where you can get lost in a world... i cant get pass the voice someone help please. idk, maybe something is wrong with my ear.

Also helps that female SS is played by the same person who voiced Jack in ME2.

[Akrabra]

He has to approve of the writing and considering all the cliches in the launch trailer, it's no surprise the ending is garbage.

And thats your opinion. If i told you the ending of Lord of the Rings now and you didn't know the journey it took to get there, you would think it was pretty bad. I will be a part of the journey and discover the ending for myself and then i will decide what i think about it. But this is off-topic. So sick of the cynicism that is corrupting the gaming community. 

[MrMrPendragon]

Are you guys serious right now? Genders?

[The Hierophant]

He has to approve of the writing and considering all the cliches in the launch trailer, it's no surprise the ending is garbage.

C'mon House. I need to know.

[Mr.House]

C'mon House. I need to know.

I have not seen it yet, but I really want to know how bad it will be. I'm just taking an educating guess it is garbage since this is Bethesda.