687 réponses à ce sujet

[Fredward]

However, any gamer who would pass up on a game solely based on the gender of the PC is an idiot who doesn't deserve to be catered to. It's not like a poorly put together game with a crappy PC will suddenly become a jewel just because you can play a certain gender.

 

Not the point I was making, it's visibility. For instance I wouldn't play a new CoD (do they still make those?) game if they included a playable woman in their trailers, I might however if I was a woman interested in shooters heretofore unaware of the fact that you could play as a female in CoD.

 

It's not an on-off switch, it's a contributor.
 

[Giantdeathrobot]

Well that's less people playing Fallout 4 then...... Not surprising if you don't like Bethesda.

 

I beg to differ. I don't dislike Bethesda overall. I like that they take the time to make their games, stick to a formula pleasing to their fans without growing too complacent, have fair business practices (Horse Armor old shame aside) and at least try to push the enveloppe RE open world design.

 

But their writing is mostly bad. Well, Skyrim was decent enough in places (Ulfric and Paarthurnax in particular), and the background lore for TES can get pretty creative. But everything else is just bad. Fallout 3 was just not very well written, and I would not be surprised if FO4 followed suit. Obsidian will always understand the setting way better if you ask me.

[KingofTime]

Spoiler

I heard your son is a robot, betrays you, and is the final boss.

 

Y: What Nuke?
A: Kill Son
B: Nuke Boston.
X: Sarcastic

Best dialogue system of all time.

Ah someone already posted it, this is Betheseda quality writing folks. Top ****** KEK

 

I knew this was gonna be crap the moment Obsidian logo was absent from the trailer.

[KingofTime]

[Dominus]

I'm personally not bugged by it - A trailer isn't a game, that's marketing to the demographic which they're targeting...which of course raises the question of why they'd skimp out for so long on that. BioWare's known for Diversity/Equality/Yadda Yadda in their games, so.

If it were purely a Cinematic trailer, I'd kinda get that as that could confuse people. As Bethesda's showing off gameplay as well, there's not really a dissonance created between the trailer and the audience. Here's your options, Generic Guy or the skin-tight bootyimeanwoman.

So yes, BioWer pls go back to your roots or something.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Anyone consider that maybe, just maybe we see an abundance of straight white male characters starring in games because devs have complete creative freedom over such a character? That they can do whatever they want with a straight white guy and everyone won't flip their lid?

 

When creating a female protagonist, they have to adhere to an arbitrary checklist of things they can't do with her, otherwise it's "problematic."

 

She has to be "strong"

She can't be too attractive, and definitely not sexualised

She can't be too ugly either

She can't be vulnerable 

She can't be placed in compromising positions, especially with men

She can't be inept

She can't be upstaged by a man at any point

She can't be mentally deficient in any way

 

The list goes on and on.

 

White male protagonists can be all of this and so much more, they can be cowardly, comically inept, lecherous, insane, insecure, a drunk etc. Why? Because male characters aren't expected to represent their entire gender, they are individuals, and are treated as such. They can be the butt of jokes, or ridiculed morons and it isn't taken as "they're taking a shot at all white guys." As long as devs are afraid to make women/LGBT characters because of the reaction they usually receive from the people who WANT their inclusion, they are going to stay with what's safe. They can make a Trevor Phillips or a Guybrush Threepwood and not be demonised for it. Imagine the reaction to a female counterpart to either of those two.

The writers shouldn't be defining the traits of the protagonist at all.  If what you describe is ever a problem, the issue is that the players aren't permitted to define their characters.

 

We need more blank slates.

[Ahglock]

I beg to differ. I don't dislike Bethesda overall. I like that they take the time to make their games, stick to a formula pleasing to their fans without growing too complacent, have fair business practices (Horse Armor old shame aside) and at least try to push the enveloppe RE open world design.

 

But their writing is mostly bad. Well, Skyrim was decent enough in places (Ulfric and Paarthurnax in particular), and the background lore for TES can get pretty creative. But everything else is just bad. Fallout 3 was just not very well written, and I would not be surprised if FO4 followed suit. Obsidian will always understand the setting way better if you ask me.

 

Not to make a thing of it, but is Biowares writing actually that much better?  Was the writing in ME3 even decent? I think people mistake cool one liners and a cinematic camera with good writing a lot of times when they claim Biowares focus is there solid writing.  Me2 played and was written like a Michael Bay movie and not one of his better ones, ME3 somehow managed to have even worse writing.  I can't slog through DAI's gameplay to tell if the writing didn't suck there. That doesn;t mean I dislike there games, ME2 is one of my favorite games of all time.  But its not something I consider to have good writing.  Good voice acting, a few awesome lines, some nice visuals, fun gameplay.  All of that, but was the story good, was it really that much worse than FO3s story?  And that story made like no effing sense.  But Reapers are people slushies, messiah complex, how like no one reacts to you running around with a terrorist logo on your ship etc etc ME2 wasn't really making much sense either. Better packaging sure, but thats pretty much judging the book by its cover.

[KaiserShep]

There's no such thing as a true blank slate in a video game. Not even the Warden could qualify.

[Mr.House]

"That's just how it works."

[Mr.House]

There's no such thing as a true blank slate in a video game. Not even the Warden could qualify.

Courier.

[Fredward]

Courier.

 

Courier got some baggage during the last DLC with Ulysses. And they're a courier so not totally blank slate. How about Rust?

[9TailsFox]

I'm personally not bugged by it - A trailer isn't a game, that's marketing to the demographic which they're targeting...which of course raises the question of why they'd skimp out for so long on that. BioWare's known for Diversity/Equality/Yadda Yadda in their games, so.

If it were purely a Cinematic trailer, I'd kinda get that as that could confuse people. As Bethesda's showing off gameplay as well, there's not really a dissonance created between the trailer and the audience. Here's your options, Generic Guy or the skin-tight bootyimeanwoman.

So yes, BioWer pls go back to your roots or something.

Because everyone knows what fallout is. Bethesda can show penguin dancing everyone still buy it. They don't need waste much money on marketing. They just need say we making new fallout and every fan will market it for Bethesda, look we talking about fallout on Bioware forum.

[Seboist]

Not to make a thing of it, but is Biowares writing actually that much better?  Was the writing in ME3 even decent? I think people mistake cool one liners and a cinematic camera with good writing a lot of times when they claim Biowares focus is there solid writing.  Me2 played and was written like a Michael Bay movie and not one of his better ones, ME3 somehow managed to have even worse writing.  I can't slog through DAI's gameplay to tell if the writing didn't suck there. That doesn;t mean I dislike there games, ME2 is one of my favorite games of all time.  But its not something I consider to have good writing.  Good voice acting, a few awesome lines, some nice visuals, fun gameplay.  All of that, but was the story good, was it really that much worse than FO3s story?  And that story made like no effing sense.  But Reapers are people slushies, messiah complex, how like no one reacts to you running around with a terrorist logo on your ship etc etc ME2 wasn't really making much sense either. Better packaging sure, but thats pretty much judging the book by its cover.

 

ME2 and 3 as a whole, are Ed Wood level schlock. Everything from Lazarus Project, Space Terminator/Baby reaper, starchild, reaper motivation, and Cerberus sith empire are downright embarrassing to witness for such high budget productions whose main selling points are writing and story.

 

There's some quality writing here and there, like Mordin's loyalty mission(which is one of the very rare examples of genuine sci-fi in ME),but as a whole, Mass Effect is a textbook example of how NOT to write a trilogy and why video games are the bottom of the barrel of story telling mediums.

[Cyonan]

Courier.

 

The Courier came close until Lonesome Road messed that up.

[Iakus]

Courier got some baggage during the last DLC with Ulysses. And they're a courier so not totally blank slate. How about Rust?

More accurate to say Ulysses had baggage with the Courier. The two never actually met face to face before Lonesome Road.

The Fallout games in the past have all been pretty good about "blank slate" characters. They set where you came from, but shaping the character from rhat point on is typically up to he player

[9TailsFox]

Not to make a thing of it, but is Biowares writing actually that much better?  Was the writing in ME3 even decent? I think people mistake cool one liners and a cinematic camera with good writing a lot of times when they claim Biowares focus is there solid writing.  Me2 played and was written like a Michael Bay movie and not one of his better ones, ME3 somehow managed to have even worse writing.  I can't slog through DAI's gameplay to tell if the writing didn't suck there. That doesn;t mean I dislike there games, ME2 is one of my favorite games of all time.  But its not something I consider to have good writing.  Good voice acting, a few awesome lines, some nice visuals, fun gameplay.  All of that, but was the story good, was it really that much worse than FO3s story?  And that story made like no effing sense.  But Reapers are people slushies, messiah complex, how like no one reacts to you running around with a terrorist logo on your ship etc etc ME2 wasn't really making much sense either. Better packaging sure, but thats pretty much judging the book by its cover.

Exactly Bioware writing not much better sometimes even horrible all ME3 writing is bad with some good parts. Everyone focus on ending because it's so horrible you don't need other bad stuff in game. And ME2 is just filer. Bioware just have good characters we love and it saves games. And Fallout 3 ending was fine

Spoiler

you can be nice and sacrifice yourself or be ******* and live.

 

Bioware(reaper) reaction to people saying ending is bad written.

[RoboticWater]

Not to make a thing of it, but is Biowares writing actually that much better?  Was the writing in ME3 even decent? I think people mistake cool one liners and a cinematic camera with good writing a lot of times when they claim Biowares focus is there solid writing.  Me2 played and was written like a Michael Bay movie and not one of his better ones, ME3 somehow managed to have even worse writing.  I can't slog through DAI's gameplay to tell if the writing didn't suck there. That doesn;t mean I dislike there games, ME2 is one of my favorite games of all time.  But its not something I consider to have good writing.  Good voice acting, a few awesome lines, some nice visuals, fun gameplay.  All of that, but was the story good, was it really that much worse than FO3s story?  And that story made like no effing sense.  But Reapers are people slushies, messiah complex, how like no one reacts to you running around with a terrorist logo on your ship etc etc ME2 wasn't really making much sense either. Better packaging sure, but thats pretty much judging the book by its cover.

When it comes to plot details and general sense, BioWare might not have a perfect score (or even a decent one), but their character writing is pretty consistently stellar.

 

BioWare knows how to present their worlds, and that's not judging a book by its cover, that's just good storytelling. Bethesda's stories are told by generally uninteresting characters in somewhat drab locations with the exact same creepy conversation stare. There's no flair, no life, no decent camera angles to hold my attention, no animation (quite literally) to a scene, and no "human" moments to keep me invested. BioWare knows the power that all of these things hold. That's why

in spite of DA:I's fixed camera conversations, BIoWare still tried to maintain their quota of choreographed scenes.

 

Quite honestly, I'd rather a have lame story told well than a good story told poorly. That's what Halo survived on for years: vibrant characters, a cool atmosphere, and not much else. 

 

and it's not as if BioWare's games are completely devoid of interesting ideas. They certainly aren't always on the money, but at the heart of Mass Effect's and Dragonage's conflicts there's some really good stuff fueling some really good character development. 

[Giantdeathrobot]

Not to make a thing of it, but is Biowares writing actually that much better?  Was the writing in ME3 even decent? I think people mistake cool one liners and a cinematic camera with good writing a lot of times when they claim Biowares focus is there solid writing.  Me2 played and was written like a Michael Bay movie and not one of his better ones, ME3 somehow managed to have even worse writing.  I can't slog through DAI's gameplay to tell if the writing didn't suck there. That doesn;t mean I dislike there games, ME2 is one of my favorite games of all time.  But its not something I consider to have good writing.  Good voice acting, a few awesome lines, some nice visuals, fun gameplay.  All of that, but was the story good, was it really that much worse than FO3s story?  And that story made like no effing sense.  But Reapers are people slushies, messiah complex, how like no one reacts to you running around with a terrorist logo on your ship etc etc ME2 wasn't really making much sense either. Better packaging sure, but thats pretty much judging the book by its cover.

 

Mass Effect is definitely the worst written of Bioware's two flagship series, what with the Lazarus project and the Cerberus Sith Empire and all that. But it never got as stupid as the FO3 ending where your radiation immune companions decided to let you die because destiny. Even the infamous ME3 ending (which I still loathe) didn't get as bad as this, especially once they retconned the silly parts.

 

Dragon Age, however, is just better. Bethesda simply doesn't make characters like Morrigan, Loghain, the Arishok, Solas, etc. Trespasser alone contains better writing and choice and consequence than anything Bethesda has ever produced.

[Mr.House]

The Courier came close until Lonesome Road messed that up.

Not really. You delivered a package, that's it. That's pretty normal for a courier.

[goishen]

  And that story made like no effing sense.  But Reapers are people slushies, messiah complex, how like no one reacts to you running around with a terrorist logo

 

 

To me it made perfect sense.  Can you list off all of the terrorist organizations in the world today?  Even if you can, which I doubt, that list would be a whole lot bigger when it got around to galaxy scale.

[Cyonan]

Not really. You delivered a package, that's it. That's pretty normal for a courier.

 

It set your role in the divide and how you've been a courier and traveled the west for a while. That's not a true 100% blank slate character.

 

Not that it's necessarily a bad thing, mind you. That level of blank slate is effectively impossible to do in a video game because of the restrictions involving computers.

[wolfhowwl]

 

Possible ghoul and robot romance included in Fallout 4. Standby for further details.

[maia0407]

I beg to differ. I don't dislike Bethesda overall. I like that they take the time to make their games, stick to a formula pleasing to their fans without growing too complacent, have fair business practices (Horse Armor old shame aside) and at least try to push the enveloppe RE open world design.

 

But their writing is mostly bad. Well, Skyrim was decent enough in places (Ulfric and Paarthurnax in particular), and the background lore for TES can get pretty creative. But everything else is just bad. Fallout 3 was just not very well written, and I would not be surprised if FO4 followed suit. Obsidian will always understand the setting way better if you ask me.

I'm not really that concerned about FO4's writing either. I hope for improvement but if I don't get that I'll still enjoy exploring the world and making my own story. That's all I ever really expect from Bethesda games. Anything more is just icing on the cake. For me, Bethesda is just filler between Bioware games anyway.

[Mr_Q]

It's good for business. Some women and men prefer to play as women when they purchase a video game. Showing a potential consumer that you can play as a women could attract more consumers. Subsequently, one could make greater revenue as a result.

 

Quite logical really. 

[SnakeCode]

Spoiler me after you're done. (no sexual)

 

Don't lie. That was totally sexual.