14 réponses à ce sujet

[phishface]

I've basically got nothing at all to back up this theory, which I thought of in the shower. Just wanted to post it here so in future I can crow about calling it (in the extremely unlikely event of it being correct).

 

None of the current races/species existed before the Veil. There was just one race, who were all shiny and god-like, but also mean and terrible. Then Solas blew up the world, the people shattered, and all the races + spirits + demons got created. That's why he says the modern elves aren't his people - they're just one aspect of the whole, scattered like petals from a broken flower.

 

That's it - the whole theory. It may be crap, but at least it's concise.

[nightscrawl]

This is the first fan theory on these forums that I've ever liked, and that actually sounds somewhat plausible. Nice job!

[In Exile]

I've always been conflicted about whether spirits are the remnants of the elves or not (the true ancient elves) and therefore part of why elves aren't magical or immortal anymore.

The only argument I see against it is what Solas said at Haven about a world without a Veil - it sounds to me as if spirits did exist at that time.

Some have the theory elves are spirits who "became real" like Cole. That could account for both - the elves are materialised spirits that got blown apart by Solas when he created the Veil.

[Gervaise]

There probably is some element of truth in this in that the ancient elves certainly probably were spirits that became more material.     So originally they were all magical and immortal, although just like modern mages and spirits, some were more powerful than others.       The theory you give sounds a lot like the history of creation given in the Chant, where originally there was just the Fade and spirits, then the material world was created and by implication the Veil as well.    The problem with the Chant is that it only ever speaks about humans, when clearly elves (or some form of ancient beings) predated them..

 

However, if you adhere to the historical timeline given in WoT then humans appeared in northern Thedas before elves started to feel the quickening and therefore before the Veil was created.    The two instances are very close together, though and the history of humans is still rather vague.    If they suddenly appeared in the north, having not been there before, where did they come from?    Did one of the evanuris bring them into being?    Or some other creator, across the sea?    It has always seemed significant to me that both humans and qunari originally came from across the sea and landed in the north of Thedas, as though on each occasion they were fleeing some malign force or creature.    The humans who didn't flee the first time round were bred into qunari (possibly through introduction of dragon blood in some way).

 

Dwarves seem to have been genuine children of the stone, Titans.    That doesn't necessarily mean they didn't start off as spirits though.     From the writings in the library and the Deep Roads, it would seem that the evanuris, in particular Mythal, seem to have freed them from the hold the Titans had over them and allowed them to develop into what they later became.   

 

The Veil did probably have a big impact on how the races developed from then on; the fact that Solas admits everyone will die as a result of his actions, suggests that they couldn't have existed in their current form before it was raised.     Clearly there are still a lot of questions that need answering.

[LorenzEffect]

But then why would Solas regard the elves differently from the rest, if modern elves are "not elvhen" in the same way as humans?

[phishface]

But then why would Solas regard the elves differently from the rest, if modern elves are "not elvhen" in the same way as humans?

 

That's a good question. I dunno the answer - like I said, haven't really thought this through. Maybe because elves and spirits are the good leftovers from the old race, whereas humans, dwarves etc are all the nasty bits. It's like elves are fillet steak and the other races are the stuff they put in sausages...um, I really have no idea what I'm talking about

[RoseLawliet]

Maybe it could be like evolution and common descent. The elves are a more direct descendant, while the rest are more distantly related. Origins did get in an evolution joke in a Sten/Shale banter where they wonder if humans are related to monkeys.

 

edit: This would make elves "older" in a sense. They'd be like the alligators of today, which have remained largely the same for (depending on your source) around 150 million years. Or they could be birds.

[Gervaise]

I think the writers are probably still grappling with the problem of ancient versus modern elves.    Kieran says that he can sense the magic in your blood if you are a Dalish Inquisitor, which suggests that even modern elves are different in some way from the other races.  Corypheus said something similar to his servant in explanation of why elves were necessary for the blood sacrifice to open the Veil.   However, Abelas doesn't recognise any sort of kinship with you and Solas outright admits that you will perish along with the other races when he drops the Veil.   Nor did he regard you as People before his time with the Inquisition.    Whilst he does acknowledge you as such now, he still says you will die.    Yet all these elves from across Thedas are running to join him; so is he just using them?   Do they not know the consequences of his action?    Or do they just not care so long as the elven race is returned to its former glory?    Will ancient elves, like Abelas, survive?   In which case why?    If not, then what is Solas trying to restore?    In evolutionary terms, thousands of years is not sufficient to have made an appreciable difference between ancient and modern elves but then Thedas probably doesn't follow the rules of evolution since it does only appear to have been around for thousands of years rather than millions.

[LorenzEffect]

Who's to say Thedas itself has only existed for thousands of years? Its history only goes back several millennia, but so does Earth history and our planet is billions of years old.

[Ashagar]

The Titans and likely their dwarven servants existed as did the dragons before the creation of the vale given the troubles the elves had with them.  I also suspect the humans existed as well in some form in the lands beyond Thedas and beyond the elven empire. My personal theory is that many of the humans were forced to flee their homelands after the creation of the veil, leading them to to eventually to enter known thedas in two major tribal groups, the Neromenians who arrived the from the north with the northern tribes of them bringing maker belief to thedas and out of the west arrived the Alamarri.

 

I am not sure where the Kessith came from though and where they reside given since there is so little known about them other than they drove the qunari into exile and that the qunari don't think they look the same as them.

[ComedicSociopathy]

I've basically got nothing at all to back up this theory, which I thought of in the shower. Just wanted to post it here so in future I can crow about calling it (in the extremely unlikely event of it being correct).

 

None of the current races/species existed before the Veil. There was just one race, who were all shiny and god-like, but also mean and terrible. Then Solas blew up the world, the people shattered, and all the races + spirits + demons got created. That's why he says the modern elves aren't his people - they're just one aspect of the whole, scattered like petals from a broken flower.

 

That's it - the whole theory. It may be crap, but at least it's concise.

 

 

Hmm. Sounds familiar. 

[LorenzEffect]

[snip]
My personal theory is that many of the humans were forced to flee their homelands after the creation of the veil, leading them to to eventually to enter known thedas in two major tribal groups, the Neromenians who arrived the from the north with the northern tribes of them bringing maker belief to thedas and out of the west arrived the Alamarri.
[snip]

It does seem suspicious that humans just happened to arrive around the same time that Solas made the Veil.

[S.W.]

I've basically got nothing at all to back up this theory, which I thought of in the shower. Just wanted to post it here so in future I can crow about calling it (in the extremely unlikely event of it being correct).

 

None of the current races/species existed before the Veil. There was just one race, who were all shiny and god-like, but also mean and terrible. Then Solas blew up the world, the people shattered, and all the races + spirits + demons got created. That's why he says the modern elves aren't his people - they're just one aspect of the whole, scattered like petals from a broken flower.

 

That's it - the whole theory. It may be crap, but at least it's concise.

 

I definitely believe this makes sense of humanity's origin. It would also explain why 'everyone has to die' if Solas tears down the veil; humanity in some sense depends on it, and the other races are so human-like - the dwarves are apart from their titans, the elves apart from their fade, the qunari are just weird - that they'll struggle to survive as well.

 

I think it'd also make sense of why there are few stories of abominations run rampant and demons EVERYWHERE in the pre-veil world. Demons are drawn to the physical world out of curiosity and hunger, but surely this would be sated in a pre-veil world? Surely they'd be different? I think it makes a lot of sense that demons only existed as they currently do after the fall of arlathan.

[DuskWanderer]

I predict that humans are the result of spirits being in the waking world when Solas created the Veil. Spirits were able to change their shape beforehand since the world was amorphous, and often took the shape of flat-eared "elf-like" creatures to distinguish themselves from elves, among other shapes. 

 

After the Veil was created, some of these spirits were trapped on the other side, unable to return. They had to learn and grow, and eventually, stating on the other side so long made them real, similar in the fashion of Cole. 

 

It's not a perfect theory, I need to iron it out, but humans, I think, used to be spirits, and then grew. That's why Solas was amazed at what Cole did. He'd never seen it before, a spirit becoming fully human, but after millenia, it happened.

 

Dwarves, I think, were always part of the waking world, children of the Titans. 

 

I suspect Qunari were creations of the ancient elves. 

[Medhia_Nox]

Well - spirits seem to pretty obviously have existed at the time of the ancient elves...

 

The Avina terminal in the library.... err... I mean "Spirit of Connection" was put there by the ancient elves... and the "Librarians" are fear demons... which the spirit of connection says are "malfunctioning" - so it seems pretty clear they WERE spirits that became demons.

 

Also - spirits becoming humans is not what Cole did.  Cole copied something pre-existing. 

 

The current spirits/demons are unimaginative beings incapable of any form of innovation.  Them mysteriously becoming mortal creatures defies this basic principle (not that it can't happen... DA's metaphysics is a disaster).