25 réponses à ce sujet

[Da_king_of_all]

I came back to this game about after a five month break to play the DLC, and what have found angered me. I went to load up my canon play through and realized that playing my Knight Enchanter like it was meant to played a.k.a up front and personal, but that is not possible on nightmare as the nerfs were too debilitating. I know I could switch up my spells and casts from a distance  but as stated before that defeats the purpose and doesn't fit lore wise. The part that irks me the most about the nerfs is how hypocritical the cry babies were about the Knight Enchanter being over powered, yet ignoring the fact that any of the their rogues  could solo any Dragon in sub 10 seconds and doing it with less than 5 button presses while it would take the Knight Enchanter 10 mins to do the same yet there was no cries to nerf the rogues. Do not get me wrong I'am not advocating that the rogues get nerfed, but I would like Spirit Blade returned to its natural state to return the specialization the way it was meant to be played. Before someone complains about the Knight Enchanter being OP due to its invincibility I would like to point them to the Champion specialization which is just as invincible. Sorry about the rant it just kills me that my canon play through of the game changed so drastically due to hypocritical  out cry.

[Ieldra]

I don't mind it that much because I don't play on Nightmare, but I agree - every class has its OP build and that's perfectly OK for a SP game, but only the KE got nerfed. It is annoying.

 

It is a little more dynamic to play a KE with the new Spirit Blade, while the old version was somewhat boring, but the KE lost significantly in combat utility and efficiency in the process. That wouldn't have been necessary.

[ottffsse]

It's not my favorite mage spec but you have 2 options now: use any inferno pact belt and spam fire array mine, fade cloak and immolate up in close combat, forget spirit blade in this fire build. Or use storm pact belt and spam chain lightning, fade cloak, lightning cage spirit blade when charged and fade step.

[Wulfram]

Knight Enchanter is still very powerful and effective as a close range combatant. Though I do feel that there's a loss of the desired style with the end of spirit blade spam.

If you've got Trespasser then you can regain that sense of being a melee mage by using the Blade of Tidarion, though you shouldn't have to get a DLC to fix patches to the base game.

[Aeratus]

KE got two boosts from belt of inferno pact, and sigil of lyrium (+50% barrier at -50% health). Overall, they got nerfed. The new enhanced amulet of barrier also makes KEs kind of obsolete. 

 

KE is still the most tankish type of mage tho. So they still have uniqueness in that regard.

 

But the most recent patch/dlc has basically changed everything. Right now, the most OP class overall is probably a 2h champion carrying a chromatic greatsword or prismatic greataxe, since they can do massive damage using combat roll, and being unkillable at the same time. Combat roll under the new upgrade has become so grossly overpowered that I refuse to use it.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

Ideally, bring back the spam SB ability ONLY if you use the crafted hilt for a staff, otherwise, it's as is. Lower DPS due to the forced hilt but, more hits or, fewer hits and better DPS. Fair, and it gives those that want to play like an Arcane Warrior the ability to do so.

[swk3000]

I never got the chance to play the OP Knight Enchanter, so I am not missing that. However, I don't seem to be the close-range mage the spec seems to be for. I tend to work at mid-range, throwing spells around to power up my Spirit Blade, then move in close to hit something with it. Since I'm only near enemies for a short duration, Combat Clarity sees limited up-time, and I'm not sitting still, so Winter's Stillness isn't up often either. Frankly, the only source of reliable mana regeneration I have is from Rejuvenating Barrier, and there's no icon, so I'm not 100% it's working properly. Thankfully, I'm running a Sigil of the Great Bear, so I can throw out a bunch of spells before I run out of mana and have to rely on regeneration.

[Arvaarad]

As I recall, most rogue players thought KE was always underpowered. I certainly did.

The supposedly "OP" KE builds never did enough DPS to outweigh the amount of CC and party support they give up. The classic KE video was "watch my KE slowly solo this content for 30 minutes while the rest of my party lies dead." Ignoring the fact that they could have killed everything much more easily if their "tank" had any ability to hold aggro.

With the pact belts and Ring of Doubt, KEs can actually put out a decent amount of damage. If you're interested in a particular style of combat for story or thematic reasons, just lower the difficulty.

[actionhero112]

Being functionally invincible is not the same as doing a lot of damage. They are not the same kind of power. 

 

For a long time, the KE was both the best mage class for both doing damage being invincible while doing so. It was hands down the best mage specialization in the game, just by how broken it's entire kit was. It had ridiculous synergy with chaotic focus, clean burn and stupid high damage steroids. There was basically no gameplay reason to be a necromancer during this time. The class just blew chunks. Rift mages had their own impact detonator, as well as unlimited mana and ptoa if you built correctly, but they didn't put out the dps like the KE.

 

After nerfs and after trespasser there is finally a reason to play the necromancer and riftmage, and their damage isn't overshadowed. This is good for game balance. The KE is now the tank mage specialization. Play the specialization as a tank. It tanks better than anything in the game. 

 

Champion has other things that define it besides just being a tank. It has access to the best party damage buff in the game, to the death. The KE is more invincible, and I would argue holds aggro on nearby enemies better (Fade Cloak > Walking Fortress) , but loses the party buff. 

[Aeratus]

Being functionally invincible is not the same as doing a lot of damage. They are not the same kind of power. 

 

For a long time, the KE was both the best mage class for both doing damage being invincible while doing so. It was hands down the best mage specialization in the game, just by how broken it's entire kit was. It had ridiculous synergy with chaotic focus, clean burn and stupid high damage steroids. There was basically no gameplay reason to be a necromancer during this time. The class just blew chunks. Rift mages had their own impact detonator, as well as unlimited mana and ptoa if you built correctly, but they didn't put out the dps like the KE.

 

After nerfs and after trespasser there is finally a reason to play the necromancer and riftmage, and their damage isn't overshadowed. This is good for game balance. The KE is now the tank mage specialization. Play the specialization as a tank. It tanks better than anything in the game. 

 

Champion has other things that define it besides just being a tank. It has access to the best party damage buff in the game, to the death. The KE is more invincible, and I would argue holds aggro on nearby enemies better (Fade Cloak > Walking Fortress) , but loses the party buff. 

 

Also, they added the new necklace "Andraste's Sacrifice" to give KEs a taunt, so they can tank better. I also agree that the new KE makes the delineation between mage classes more clear:

 

KE: Tank mage

Rift Mage: Sustain mage

Necro: Burst mage

 

Compared to warrior tanks, KE has ranged attacks and a healing focus ability, whereas warrior tanks are just melee. So KE is differentiated from warrior tanks in that regard. 

[Arvaarad]

Also, they added the new necklace "Andraste's Sacrifice" to give KEs a taunt, so they can tank better.

Yep, that's another aspect where post-patch KEs are better off than pre-patch KEs.

Pre-patch KEs only looked OP because people compared their DPS and melee survivability to other mages... which, obviously if you compare them to the weakest aspects of their own class, even a mediocre spec looks amazing. I don't mean "weakest" in a bad way, mages simply have other things they do much better.

Mages excel at crowd control more than any rogue or warrior, and the "OP" KE builds sacrificed all of that. Instead, they had DPS that wasn't as good as a rogue and survivability that was virtually useless without taunt. But it was better than mage damage and survivability, so people misinterpreted it as OP.

At least now, with amulets and belts and rings, KEs can start to pump out respectable AoE and some amount of taunt. If anything, they've finally been buffed to a point where I might bring them along. I'm pleased, too, because my inquisitors usually end up friendly with Vivienne, and it was sad that I was always benching her pre-patch.

[AntiChri5]

My current playthrough is a Knight Enchanter on Nightmare with a few trials on.

 

Incredibly easy. My character is extremely powerful, is constantly in melee and charges Spirit Blade with ease.

 

Yes, the Knight Enchanter lost the option of mindlessly spamming one ability and winning anyway. But put thought into your build and playstyle and you will be incredibly powerful as a Knight Enchanter. Or just complain about other people having complained while accusing them of hypocrisy.

I don't mind it that much because I don't play on Nightmare, but I agree - every class has its OP build and that's perfectly OK for a SP game, but only the KE got nerfed. It is annoying.

 

It is a little more dynamic to play a KE with the new Spirit Blade, while the old version was somewhat boring, but the KE lost significantly in combat utility and efficiency in the process. That wouldn't have been necessary.

The argument that balance only matters in multiplayer is made so often but it's always been complete nonsense. Balance is essential for ensuring as wide a variety of playstyles are viable as possible. And yes, Inquisition is terribly balanced.

[Da_king_of_all]

My current playthrough is a Knight Enchanter on Nightmare with a few trials on.

 

Incredibly easy. My character is extremely powerful, is constantly in melee and charges Spirit Blade with ease.

 

Yes, the Knight Enchanter lost the option of mindlessly spamming one ability and winning anyway. But put thought into your build and playstyle and you will be incredibly powerful as a Knight Enchanter. Or just complain about other people having complained while accusing them of hypocrisy.

The argument that balance only matters in multiplayer is made so often but it's always been complete nonsense. Balance is essential for ensuring as wide a variety of playstyles are viable as possible. And yes, Inquisition is terribly balanced.

There is no reason to Nerf other classes just bring the weaker ones on par with the stronger ones. Nerfing classes that people are already playing will just upset them and nerfing classes is a bad way to bring about balance unless some class is able to do something game breaking.

[ottffsse]

KE did not get nerfed. Spirit blade mechanics has been changed that it is not good to just spam it anymore without using some other abilities in between to charge.
And the introduction of several new items and new ability toggles make it and other mages better than before.

There are still ways to make any class able to solo nm though including ke.

Spirit blade never in devs eyes should have been = to reaver dragon rage spam dps considering the later by design actually takes away health and does not generate guard or barrier unlike spirit blade.

[Da_king_of_all]

KE did not get nerfed. Spirit blade mechanics has been changed that it is not good to just spam it anymore without using some other abilities in between to charge.
And the introduction of several new items and new ability toggles make it and other mages better than before.

There are still ways to make any class able to solo nm though including ke.

Spirit blade never in devs eyes should have been = to reaver dragon rage spam dps considering the later by design actually takes away health and does not generate guard or barrier unlike spirit blade.

Well players didn't know what the devs had intended, they only know what was actually in the game so when the Knight Enchanter being fundamentally changed  like it was caught people off guard.

[AntiChri5]

There is no reason to Nerf other classes just bring the weaker ones on par with the stronger ones. Nerfing classes that people are already playing will just upset them and nerfing classes is a bad way to bring about balance unless some class is able to do something game breaking.

If one class is clearly out of balance with the others you can change literally every other class in the game or change that one class. Gee, I wonder which is the better solution. Redesign the gameplay from the ground up or halve a single abilities damage.

 

Knight Enchanter is still very powerful. You just have to use more than one ability now. The class has been changed from a bland one trick pony to a dynamic class that fills a unique niche by using a range of abilites.

 

You can complain about now having to actually put in a little bit of effort to trivialize the hardest difficulty, or you could put in that tiny bit of effort.

[AntiChri5]

KE did not get nerfed. Spirit blade mechanics has been changed that it is not good to just spam it anymore without using some other abilities in between to charge.
And the introduction of several new items and new ability toggles make it and other mages better than before.

There are still ways to make any class able to solo nm though including ke.

Spirit blade never in devs eyes should have been = to reaver dragon rage spam dps considering the later by design actually takes away health and does not generate guard or barrier unlike spirit blade.

I frequently fully charge Spirit Blade with a single spell. People can't seem to cast a single spell after a few SB swings.

[Da_king_of_all]

If one class is clearly out of balance with the others you can change literally every other class in the game or change that one class. Gee, I wonder which is the better solution. Redesign the gameplay from the ground up or halve a single abilities damage.

 

Knight Enchanter is still very powerful. You just have to use more than one ability now. The class has been changed from a bland one trick pony to a dynamic class that fills a unique niche by using a range of abilites.

 

You can complain about now having to actually put in a little bit of effort to trivialize the hardest difficulty, or you could put in that tiny bit of effort.

Isn't that what they did with the KE when they redid spirit blade they kind of changed gameplay of it? I'am not too worried about the changes to KE as I have made changes to the way I play mine, but I honestly had fun playing it the way I did before because of the role-playing aspects and I don't want to turn down the difficulty because I Don't want to lose out on achievements on my first way through.

[Gya]

Currently doing a KE playthrough for the first time, so I can't personally compare the damage output and playstyle from before. However, thanks to the flaming array and winters ruin toggles, and point blank range energy barrages, I'm having a blast. Sure, I can't press a button and watch an enemy disintegrate like with a DW assassin, but I have incredible survivability and reasonable aoe damage, as well as reasonable elemental damage of each type for any situation without having to constantly change staves.

A slight aside, but does anyone know how much damage a fully charged spirit blade does? The tooltips in this game seem to have been intentionally designed to not give us useful information.

[Aeratus]

I think KE was perceived to be powerful because everything is much more streamined than in other classes.

 

For every other class, defensive abilities are separate from offensive ones. On the other hand, once you get the barrier generating passive on the KE tree, every offensive ability is also a defensive ability. Interestingly, even the main defensive ability for KE (the fade cloak) is also an offensive ability with decloaking blast, while the same cannot be said of the Champion's walking fortress, for example. For KE, there is no need to think about offense and defense separately, and this makes for a smooth gameplay. You also don't need specialized builds to be effective for KE that you would need otherwise for rogues or 2h warriors. 

[Da_king_of_all]

I think KE was perceived to be powerful because everything is much more streamined than in other classes.

 

For every other class, defensive abilities are separate from offensive ones. On the other hand, once you get the barrier generating passive on the KE tree, every offensive ability is also a defensive ability. Interestingly, even the main defensive ability for KE (the fade cloak) is also an offensive ability with decloaking blast, while the same cannot be said of the Champion's walking fortress, for example. For KE, there is no need to think about offense and defense separately, and this makes for a smooth gameplay. You also don't need specialized builds to be effective for KE that you would need otherwise for rogues or 2h warriors. 

Which is crazy that people still perceived the KE as OP when there were videos all over youtube demonstrating how to destroy any boss in the game in less than 10 seconds while using less than 5 buttons with the rogue class. What is more streamlined than that?

[swk3000]

I frequently fully charge Spirit Blade with a single spell. People can't seem to cast a single spell after a few SB swings.

I do the same. Energy Barrage and Amplified Blade mean full charges from a single spell. You don't need anything else. Open with Energy Barrage, Fade Step, Spirit Blade. I make it a point to hit from behind with the blade to benefit from Flanking Damage, as you have to be within 3 meters of an enemy to get full damage boost. Since I'm in Melee range anyway, it makes sense to get all the damage I can. Though I'm not currently using Andraste's Sacrifice, so I can get away with this because everything isn't attacking me. I probably won't be able to do this once I get the amulet.

[JiaJM98]

Forget Spirit Blade, join the Fire Mine Club NOW!

[DarkAmaranth1966]

The whole point of KE is to be a melee mage but, with only one melee attack, you have to spam it to do so. Now that is impossible so, you can't be a melee mage as a KE is supposed to be. Makes sprit blade a useless skill. KE is still good for disruption and, for the mana boost it gives but, you can't be a front line fighter anymore. (unless you use Cheat Engine with God Mode which keeps you at full focus at all times, but that's cheating.) Sad that you have to cheat to play KE as the in your face battlemage it is talked up to be and, in fact once was.

[swk3000]

I'm not having any problems running my KE as a close to mid-range fighter. Yeah, I'm not standing on their toes, but I'm still staying pretty close. My first few posts in this thread were made before I had a chance to really work with the KE; now that I've had a chance to do so, I'm finding that it's just fine.

Of course, I think part of the problem is that the game insists on comparing the Knight Enchanter to the Arcane Warrior spec. To me, that's a mistake. To me, the Knight Enchanter is better compared to the Battlemage spec: they're still mages, but instead of holding back and firing their spells off at a distance, they stay in close range. I'm personally playing my Knight Enchanter as a Mage who fights at close range and occasionally swats people with a magical sword, not as a Melee Mage, and I'm doing just fine. And this is from someone who, on the few occasions that I had to play a Knight Enchanter before the change, was pretty much just spamming Spirit Blade! So I'm not coming at it as "I figured out how to do it from the beginning; you're dumb if you can't figure it out yourself", but as "Huh. This isn't what I was doing before, but it's actually more dynamic than what I was doing before." I'm actually having a lot more fun with the specialization now than I was before the change, because it's a lot more dynamic. Before, it was basically just "Press X to Win".