410 réponses à ce sujet

[Qis]

I always question why they make Qunari have gun powder in DA2, and Anders blow up the Chantry using a bomb, because it is out of place.Once you put in science in magical world, everything will fall.

 

i. Tevinter Imperium have war with Qunari for so long, they know Qunari have gun powder, why those Mages never steal this thing and used it against Templars?

 

ii. With a gun, there is no need to waste years learning magic to become powerful just because want to compete with Templar anti-magic power

 

iii. No need to deal with demons for Blood Magic, the reason to use blood instead of mana is because want to against Templar who can drain mana and nulify magic

 

iv. Qunari will sure conquering the world because nothing can stop gun unless someone in Thedas is Neo who can stop bullet in mid air

 

v. Anders know how to make bomb, powerful bomb it is, so it is just logic Mages know how to make one themselves, why they never make it to against the one who opress them all these time?

 

vi. All the Mage vs Templar conflict can just simply solved with gun

 

So in the next game, they should just drop the idea of there is gun powder in Dragon Age, just make it Qunari lost it somehow or whatever reason

[Wulfram]

Early guns were fairly rubbish, and the Qunari keep the gunpowder recipe a close secret.

Gunpowder was first used in Europe in the 13th century, but it wasn't really decisive on the battlefield until maybe the late 15th century.

[Aeratus]

In real life history, it took about 1000 years to get from gunpowder-like substances to regular production of gunpowder, and then another 500 years to get from gunpowder to "guns."

 

And by "guns", we're not talking about stuff you see in video games, but stuff like this:

 

 

I'd rather take a mage than a guy with a big one-shot stick. 

[Qis]

What i mean is the whole premise will fall, when you put science in magical world, it will destroy magic, these two just can't mix.

 

Everything related with magic will be nullified by the existence of gun powder, like what i already mentioned in the first post

 

Anders is an evidence for that, if he can create such powerful bomb using sella petrae and some drake poop, every Mages logically know that, and this alone making gun powder of Qunari not as awesome

[Heimdall]

Science and magic have been mixed before, many times, sometimes to clever and interesting effect. They don't inherently ruin the setting merely by their presence.

[MaxQuartiroli]

Nothing can be worse than the automatic lyrium rifles that we saw in a recent DLC....

Personally, I hope they keep those things buried underground and never make use of them again....

[TheKomandorShepard]

Nah, Arcanum have guns (technology) and magic and it works nicely in fact it have rather interesting concept how they affect each other.Of course there mages were powerful in opposition to da mages that can at best throw a fireball and both magic and technology were very useful. In Dragon age pretty much technology would quickly overwhelm magic in most of fields as it would be easily-accessible , infinitely more secure and in many fields more effective. 

 

1.Qunari keep it in secret and considering how isolationist and fanatical their society is no wonder.Besides there is lack of motivation as templars in tevinter are just normal guards and work for tevinter and fighting qunari and rest of the thedas wouldn't be wise move for tevinter.  

 

2.That would mean that mages would reamin very susceptible to possession what would be bad for society and mage himself so there would be reason.Also although in very few things, magic suppresses even our current technology in things like short-term healing.

 

3.Also as above there still would be benefits that blood magic grants but guns or even our current technology can't provide for an example mind control.

 

4.Pretty much but we would need to asume qunari would be one who had access to it.

 

5.Anders bomb is certainly magical in nature, considering how powerful it is and that it was only used once in entire series i would say it was created as plot device that was ignored later and rest of the world doesn't know about it.

 

6.Not rly unless you want to shoot every mage then yes ,but you don't need guns to solve this problem.

[Illegitimus]

What i mean is the whole premise will fall, when you put science in magical world, it will destroy magic, these two just can't mix.

 

Everything related with magic will be nullified by the existence of gun powder, like what i already mentioned in the first post

 

Anders is an evidence for that, if he can create such powerful bomb using sella petrae and some drake poop, every Mages logically know that, and this alone making gun powder of Qunari not as awesome

 

And what we mean is "You're wrong".  Everything related with magic will not be nullified by the existence of gun powder.  In fact the the most popular subgenre of written fantasy these days has guns, cars, light switches...and magic.  And if you think Anders created a bomb that small powerful using no magic, you wildly overestimate the explosive power of a mixture of saltpeter and sulfur.  Heck you probably overestimate the explosive power of semtex.  

[Qis]

Arcanum is a game by it's own premise, it is fine, i love that game. The story is about magic vs science, but still in it's own lore both can't mix, one value will destroy the other. You may make a hybrid character but cannot reach into full potential

 

Dragon Age have different premise, we only heard about the existence of gun powder in DA2, by that alone for me destroy the premise of DA:O, because all about magical conflicts simply nullified by gun powder, just blow everyone up and problem solved. What Anders is doing also nullify the premise.

 

Secret recipe cannot be an excuse, even in real life history "suddenly everybody making guns" even though it was the Chinese who create that stuff, improvised by Mongols, Mamluk, Arabs and Turks, later the whole world have guns after it become an industry by the Europeans. Something that is secret everybody will know eventually. Even today in modern world steal and reverse technology is common and happening everyday

 

It is fine if gun powder already existed in the original game, DA:O, because it already established the world state, like Arcanum. Now, the world everything in it have lost it sense.

[KaiserShep]

Science-y magic is best magic. I love that the fictional world has its own "mundane" solutions to arcane shenanigans.

[Qis]

When Mages have guns, Templars have guns, Qunari have guns, everybody have guns, who care about magic, miracles, god and demons?

[Heimdall]

When Mages have guns, Templars have guns, Qunari have guns, everybody have guns, who care about magic, miracles, god and demons?

Why would anyone stop caring?

 

Having a gun doesn't make magic less remarkable, especially with the primitive firearms we're talking about here.

[KaiserShep]

When Mages have guns, Templars have guns, Qunari have guns, everybody have guns, who care about magic, miracles, god and demons?

I think it's an interesting setting. An example is the equalist movement in TLOK. When technology starts to catch up to bending, what happens to the divide in society created by the innate power to manipulate the elements? Anyway, demons actually exist in this universe and can still be considered a threat, so I don't see why people would suddenly stop caring about them. As for God, modern society has yet to see the death of religious practice. I don't see why it should happen to the fictional one.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Arcanum is a game by it's own premise, it is fine, i love that game. The story is about magic vs science, but still in it's own lore both can't mix, one value will destroy the other. You may make a hybrid character but cannot reach into full potential

 

Dragon Age have different premise, we only heard about the existence of gun powder in DA2, by that alone for me destroy the premise of DA:O, because all about magical conflicts simply nullified by gun powder, just blow everyone up and problem solved. What Anders is doing also nullify the premise.

 

Secret recipe cannot be an excuse, even in real life history "suddenly everybody making guns" even though it was the Chinese who create that stuff, improvised by Mongols, Mamluk, Arabs and Turks, later the whole world have guns after it become an industry by the Europeans. Something that is secret everybody will know eventually. Even today in modern world steal and reverse technology is common and happening everyday

 

It is fine if gun powder already existed in the original game, DA:O, because it already established the world state, like Arcanum. Now, the world everything in it have lost it sense.

 

Yeah i like Arcanum as well but as i said magic and technology work there togheter well (well not in-universe ).

 

Actually we were informed that qunari had access to cannons since origins as it was noted in codex entry.Well while i don't mind magic and guns mixed i don't think i would like it , i would prefer if series sticked to its orginal course and sadly it didn't. Also gun-powder hardly solves every problem ,it didn't in real life.   

 

It can, aside from fact that human communities showed very little intrest in technological progress because of magic then there is fact that qunari society is practically impenetrable as i said, explains why humans aren't very advanced when it comes to technology.  

[S.W.]

When Mages have guns, Templars have guns, Qunari have guns, everybody have guns, who care about magic, miracles, god and demons?

 

Because that technology is still so limited. Tevinter Mages can still erect barriers which prevent destruction and throw destructive spells of their own. And this is only modern Tevinter level magic - which has likely declined in power and knowledge since its peak prior to the blights. The gods of the Dragon Age setting have been implied to be far more powerful than even the Tevinter Empire at its best and probably wouldn't be taken down by the threat of gunpowder. What's gunpowder against a rip in the fade? Nothing, really.

 

Your complaint seems to posit that gunpowder is overpowered, and thus cheapens everything in the setting? This isn't true, really, I think. It's one of the reasons why the Qunari have been so successful, but hasn't allowed them to dominate (yet).

[Dai Grepher]

Nothing can be worse than the automatic lyrium rifles that we saw in a recent DLC....

Personally, I hope they keep those things buried underground and never make use of them again....

 

The Inquisitor's new prosthetic gun arm in DA4, confirmed!

[vbibbi]

In real life history, it took about 1000 years to get from gunpowder-like substances to regular production of gunpowder, and then another 500 years to get from gunpowder to "guns."

 

And by "guns", we're not talking about stuff you see in video games, but stuff like this:

 

 

I'd rather take a mage than a guy with a big one-shot stick. 

 

Anyone else get hot and bothered by this pic? One shot cannon for DA4 LI pls!

 

[Daopsin]

Arcanum is a game by it's own premise, it is fine, i love that game. The story is about magic vs science, but still in it's own lore both can't mix, one value will destroy the other. You may make a hybrid character but cannot reach into full potential

 

Dragon Age have different premise, we only heard about the existence of gun powder in DA2, by that alone for me destroy the premise of DA:O, because all about magical conflicts simply nullified by gun powder, just blow everyone up and problem solved. What Anders is doing also nullify the premise.

 

Secret recipe cannot be an excuse, even in real life history "suddenly everybody making guns" even though it was the Chinese who create that stuff, improvised by Mongols, Mamluk, Arabs and Turks, later the whole world have guns after it become an industry by the Europeans. Something that is secret everybody will know eventually. Even today in modern world steal and reverse technology is common and happening everyday

 

It is fine if gun powder already existed in the original game, DA:O, because it already established the world state, like Arcanum. Now, the world everything in it have lost it sense.

 

How does it ruin the premise?

 

A recent RPG (Bloodborne) includes magic and guns and it works perfectly in the setting. The magic still comes out being more powerful than the guns with the guns themselves having an entirely different way of use.

 

There's also the Warhammer fantasy games and setting which have guns and gunpowder but magic too.

 

If Dragon Age included a flintlock type pistol then it could be used as a special strong weapon that has a recharge time to reload, possibly being effective against non-magic and non-armoured creatures.

 

But using such primitive guns against dragons, demons and other creatures which will have all types of resistances? They won't work so I don't see how including guns would somehow render the whole magic setting invalid. Gunpowder and explosives (which take a time to set and place unlike a good old magic fireball which is cast rather instantly thus still making it the better choice) would not ruin the setting.

 

A gun can shoot, magic can do all sorts of things so it wouldn't be rendered invalid or made less of a threat.

[actionhero112]

Ask the Qunari Dreadnought how well it did versus magic 

[MaxQuartiroli]

The Inquisitor's new prosthetic gun arm in DA4, confirmed!

 

 

Preorder cancelled 

[Qis]

I think it's an interesting setting. An example is the equalist movement in TLOK. When technology starts to catch up to bending, what happens to the divide in society created by the innate power to manipulate the elements? Anyway, demons actually exist in this universe and can still be considered a threat, so I don't see why people would suddenly stop caring about them. As for God, modern society has yet to see the death of religious practice. I don't see why it should happen to the fictional one.

 

Science create sceptic, and we already have sceptics in DA:O, the lyrium and Sacred Ash, we can argue if the Ash really miracle or a chemical substance. Scepticism will destroy imagination making a fantasy world not a fantasy anymore.

 

 

Because that technology is still so limited. Tevinter Mages can still erect barriers which prevent destruction and throw destructive spells of their own. And this is only modern Tevinter level magic - which has likely declined in power and knowledge since its peak prior to the blights. The gods of the Dragon Age setting have been implied to be far more powerful than even the Tevinter Empire at its best and probably wouldn't be taken down by the threat of gunpowder. What's gunpowder against a rip in the fade? Nothing, really.

 

Your complaint seems to posit that gunpowder is overpowered, and thus cheapens everything in the setting? This isn't true, really, I think. It's one of the reasons why the Qunari have been so successful, but hasn't allowed them to dominate (yet).

 

It only take 100 years everybody throw away their swords and starting to use guns in war. The big medieval sword replaced by tiny duel sword called rapier, and later no one use sword anymore, it just for ceremonial by officers.

 

It is because human always progress and improving, it come from struggles, human will make things better than what the opposition have. This is true in real world. Only magical world do not progress and stay as it were, because of magic itself. magic do not make human progress because everything can be performed with magic. You want to fly, you use magic. You want to blow something up, you use magic. You don't need to create jet engine and study aerodynamic and stuff, you don't need to study physic.

[AlanC9]

All I'm getting from this argument is that the OP really doesn't like having gunpowder in a magical setting, and is flailing around to find an argument which will convince the rest of us not to like it too.

[Qis]

How does it ruin the premise?

 

A recent RPG (Bloodborne) includes magic and guns and it works perfectly in the setting. The magic still comes out being more powerful than the guns with the guns themselves having an entirely different way of use.

 

There's also the Warhammer fantasy games and setting which have guns and gunpowder but magic too.

 

If Dragon Age included a flintlock type pistol then it could be used as a special strong weapon that has a recharge time to reload, possibly being effective against non-magic and non-armoured creatures.

 

But using such primitive guns against dragons, demons and other creatures which will have all types of resistances? They won't work so I don't see how including guns would somehow render the whole magic setting invalid. Gunpowder and explosives (which take a time to set and place unlike a good old magic fireball which is cast rather instantly thus still making it the better choice) would not ruin the setting.

 

A gun can shoot, magic can do all sorts of things so it wouldn't be rendered invalid or made less of a threat.

 

Bloodborne and Warhammer are games by it's own premise, it already created in such way and they have reasons supporting

 

The same like Star wars, it is already established as it were, but still many things can be argued such as why Qui Gon don't use the Force to open the door but instead stick his lightsaber on it

 

Dragon Age is different premise, gun powder and sella petrae bomb only introduced later, and both destoy the original premise, like i have mentioned already and i don't bother to repeat here.

[Wulfram]

Qunari cannon were talked about in the Origins Codex

http://dragonage.wik..._Occupied_North

[Illegitimus]

 

 

It only take 100 years everybody throw away their swords and starting to use guns in war. The big medieval sword replaced by tiny duel sword called rapier, and later no one use sword anymore, it just for ceremonial by officers.

 

 

Yeah.  That's not going to happen.  Too many powerful enchanted blades out there and too many things that are liable to be bullet resistant.