410 réponses à ce sujet

[Ariella]

Doubtful, as I noted guns for most of their history of existence were extremely inaccurate, they were also slow to load even for professional solders, could only be fired a few rounds before the barrels became too hot from the black powder and had a very short range practical range and that's not going into the gunpowder creating a literal fog of war as the blackpowder used until the late 19th century created.

 

Have we actually see flintlock pistols in the hands of Qunari? I haven't played Trespasser yet, but the last I checked they only had canons on the dreadnoughts.  

[Ashagar]

Have we actually see flintlock pistols in the hands of Qunari? I haven't played Trespasser yet, but the last I checked they only had canons on the dreadnoughts.  

 

They have primitive canons but so far don't even have apparently even the most primitive of hand cannons much less matchlocks, snaplocks, wheellocks, or flintlocks. I won't even count the chemical weapons given chemical weapons of various types had been in use since before the roman empire.

[CardButton]

Have we actually see flintlock pistols in the hands of Qunari? I haven't played Trespasser yet, but the last I checked they only had canons on the dreadnoughts.  

I don't think so?  I mean I definitely have to replay it to be sure, but I'm pretty sure Qunari don't have any sort of portable fire arms.  I think they just have cannons. 

[Illegitimus]

Have we actually see flintlock pistols in the hands of Qunari? I haven't played Trespasser yet, but the last I checked they only had canons on the dreadnoughts.  

 

No.  The flintlocks are hypothetical.  Something someone might invent somewhere down the road.  

[Ariella]

They have primitive canons but so far don't even have apparently even the most primitive of hand cannons much less matchlocks, snaplocks, wheellocks, or flintlocks. I won't even count the chemical weapons given chemical weapons of various types had been in use since before the roman empire.

No.  The flintlocks are hypothetical.  Something someone might invent somewhere down the road.

Okay. I admit I know little about the history of gunsmithing.

My own theory about all this is the Qunari trust magic even less than the Chantry. It's practically anathema, so they began to develop tech to compensate.

I may be completely out to lunch on that theory but *shrug*. Thanks guys.

[Aren]

I always saw magic as the benediction of ignorance,grab your finger and you have the result,sorry but i kinda felt like talking about the scientific process of magic is kind of a silly thing.

In Thedas pretty much no one has any hint of understanding about scientific process or even talk about it ,only the Dwarves with their continuing experiments and discoveries.

Qunari are little explored in truth,but they do not seem to be so advanced compared to Theodosian,yes gatlock and nothing more?

As far as i'm concerned Anders did pretty well with his bomb and it wasn't gatlock

 

In real life history, it took about 1000 years to get from gunpowder-like substances to regular production of gunpowder, and then another 500 years to get from gunpowder to "guns."

 

And by "guns", we're not talking about stuff you see in video games, but stuff like this:

 

 

I'd rather take a mage than a guy with a big one-shot stick. 

As far as i'm concerned powerful explosive already exist.

Anders special milkshake explosion was powerful like that explosion created by the Orb of Solas

Why would anyone stop caring?

 

Having a gun doesn't make magic less remarkable, especially with the primitive firearms we're talking about here.

You can't be serious right?

Magic against high technology doesn't stand a chance in most camps,here we are talking about archers who can somehow compete with mages if they are well trained (stealth,arrows,poison ecc..).

An advanced gun will kill your average Archdemon in few shots.

[Aren]

 

5.Anders bomb is certainly magical in nature, considering how powerful it is and that it was only used once in entire series i would say it was created as plot device that was ignored later and rest of the world doesn't know about it.

 

 

Yup and the ingredients are common.

[Aren]

By that logic we shouldn't allow swords either. Refining ore is science. Making steel is science. Forging blades is science.

Yes but the technical process are not the same.

Forging a blade is science so it is build a Northrop-Grumman B-2.

So if you are going to use a more high level of knowledge in the scientific process or camp of study,magic meaning and influence will diminish greatly.

[Illegitimus]

 

Magic against high technology doesn't stand a chance in most camps,here we are talking about archers who can somehow compete with mages if they are well trained (stealth,arrows,poison ecc..).

An advanced gun will kill your average Archdemon in few shots.

 

 

No it won't.  Dragon Age isn't that realistic a setting.  How many ballista bolts does it take?  

 

 

 

Yes but the technical process are not the same.

Forging a blade is science so it is build a Northrop-Grumman B-2.

So if you are going to use a more high level of knowledge in the scientific process or camp of study,magic meaning and influence will diminish greatly.

 

 

Because of course it's impossible that magic can also improve?

[Ashagar]

 

I always saw magic as the benediction of ignorance,grab your finger and you have the result,sorry but i kinda felt like talking about the scientific process of magic is kind of a silly thing.

In Thedas pretty much no one has any hint of understanding about scientific process or even talk about it ,only the Dwarves with their continuing experiments and discoveries.

Qunari are little explored in truth,but they do not seem to be so advanced compared to Theodosian,yes gatlock and nothing more?

As far as i'm concerned Anders did pretty well with his bomb and it wasn't gatlock

 

As far as i'm concerned powerful explosive already exist.

Anders special milkshake explosion was powerful like that explosion created by the Orb of Solas

You can't be serious right?

Magic against high technology doesn't stand a chance in most camps,here we are talking about archers who can somehow compete with mages if they are well trained (stealth,arrows,poison ecc..).

An advanced gun will kill your average Archdemon in few shots.

 

 

To be fair stealth beats modern technology as well not just magic.

 

Also the people going on about guns seem to be forgetting how comically inaccurate and short ranged guns were for most of their existence and The Qunari aren't armed with modern fire arms and canons, they aren't even armed with even early modern firearms as inaccurate as they were. They have primitive canons and that's it.

[Qis]

Magical barriers are a thing.

 

Use silver bullets then

[Qis]

Because of course it's impossible that magic can also improve?

 

Magic by it's nature is stagnant, it will never improved, science is progression. The reason is, magic remove the need to progress.

 

Example, healing magic remove the need to study medicine, surgery, drugs, and so on. So medical science stunted by magic.

 

When there is magic, there will be no progression. Only science will progress and science will replace the need of magic. That's why one value will destroy the other, they cannot mix.

[CardButton]

Magic by it's nature is stagnant, it will never improved, science is progression. The reason is, magic remove the need to progress.

 

Example, healing magic remove the need to study medicine, surgery, drugs, and so on. So medical science stunted by magic.

 

When there is magic, there will be no progression. Only science will progress and science will replace the need of magic. That's why one value will destroy the other, they cannot mix.

But wasn't there indeed progression shown in DA:I with the creation of Time and Rift Magic?  While yeah the prior remained purely hypothetical until the Breach opened, it was still a significant (albeit dangerous) advancement in Magical disciplines in the DA Universe.  Rift Magic is said to have become a new arcane specialization during the events of DA:I and only had just began to be explored in earnest after the creation of the Breach.  These things at least suggests that Mages are attempting to advance and improve on Magic and that it is certainly is not stagnant.

 

Both schools of science and magic seem to be advancing in the world of Thedas, it's not simply a matter of one remaining stationary and another progressing (though you are right, the existence of Magic assuredly has an heavy Impact on the way Science grows in that world). 

[Aren]

 

 

 

 

 

Because of course it's impossible that magic can also improve?

 

No,there is no room for improvement with magic,at best you can argue that is possible to create more elaborate spells,but magic can't improve itself since it is not something that belongs to the mage,in this setting it is something that belong to the world/fade.

Solas already demonstrated that by creating the veil he lessened in a collective way the power of magic and of course consequently all spells

 Alexius complex spell cannot work with the veil.

To be fair stealth beats modern technology as well not just magic.

 

Also the people going on about guns seem to be forgetting how comically inaccurate and short ranged guns were for most of their existence and The Qunari aren't armed with modern fire arms and canons, they aren't even armed with even early modern firearms as inaccurate as they were. They have primitive canons and that's it.

In the real world it took several centuries to develop modern weapons.

In Thedas after 7000+ years of ruling of the elves(since before of the evanuris) and after 10 centuries of humans they are still so ignorant about other scientific development because of magic.

Magic is like opium for Thedas,why they should bother to improve technology if from one side mages just click with their fingers,while non mages are worried about mages?

[Ariella]

Use silver bullets then

Oy vey. Silver bullets are part of a very specific mythology. There's no indication it's viable, because if it was a viable option, we'd see silver tipped arrows used by the Templars.

[Qis]

But wasn't there indeed progression shown in DA:I with the creation of Time and Rift Magic?  While yeah the prior remained purely hypothetical until the Breach opened, it was still a significant (albeit dangerous) advancement in Magical disciplines in the DA Universe.  Rift Magic is said to have become a new arcane specialization during the events of DA:I and only had just began to be explored in earnest after the creation of the Breach.  These things at least suggests that Mages are attempting to advance and improve on Magic and that it is certainly is not stagnant.

 

Both schools of science and magic seem to be advancing in the world of Thedas, it's not simply a matter of one remaining stationary and another progressing (though you are right, the existence of Magic assuredly has an heavy Impact on the way Science grows in that world). 

 

Magic is as what it is available there in that universe, there is nothing more to explore, what else is there in magic? Magic in either way will become stagnant because there is nothing to achieve, magic is actually limited.

 

That is why we see overused magic in all games, there is no creativity anymore, and this is the main issue in DotA, just look at DotA suggestion forum, there are millions of similar suggestions in magic. Just look at magic in all games, it is all the same.

 

When science grow, magic will decrease, when magic grow, science will decrease. The difference is science will always progress up to the point it become magic itself. So it will fall into science fiction. Magic will never become science, it will stagnant.

 

If Dragon Age continue in this path, soon it will become Mass Effect.

[Qis]

Oy vey. Silver bullets are part of a very specific mythology. There's no indication it's viable, because if it was a viable option, we'd see silver tipped arrows used by the Templars.

 

Well, Solas is technically a werewolf.

 

use lyrium then, Templars can nulify magic because they have lyrium in their blood, so lyrium bullets can penetrate any magic defense.

[CardButton]

Magic is as what it is available there in that universe, there is nothing more to explore, what else is there in magic? Magic in either way will become stagnant because there is nothing to achieve, magic is actually limited.

 

That is why we see overused magic in all games, there is no creativity anymore, and this is the main issue in DotA, just look at DotA suggestion forum, there are millions of similar suggestions in magic. Just look at magic in all games, it is all the same.

 

When science grow, magic will decrease, when magic grow, science will decrease. The difference is science will always progress up to the point it become magic itself. So it will fall into science fiction. Magic will never become science, it will stagnant.

 

If Dragon Age continue in this path, soon it will become Mass Effect.

How on earth did you come up with these assumptions? 

 

Magic is a tangible force in the Dragon Age universe.  There is an actual intellectual capacity needed to learn it, varying schools of study, new schools being created (Rift Magic) and old schools being lost (Arcane Warrior).  There are entire colleges built around its study and its advancement (especially in Tevinter).  While "Magic" itself is rather constant source of energy in DA (and the energy itself is somewhat unchanging), its the creativity of those who wield it that ultimately defines its limitations (even in the diminished world of Magic that the Veil has created).  

 

Also Magic may suppress scientific advancement because of it's convenience, but it doesn't go out of its way to reverse what growth Science does make.  In contrast the advancement of science doesn't make Magic more superfluous.  Plus the assumption that somehow DA Technology is on the eventual pathway to Mass Effect assumes that scientific advancement follows some sort of linear format, when more logically in a world with magic technological advancement would actually grow heavily reflective of that magic.  There is no guarantee that the two disciplines are entirely incompatible as well, Imagine what mages would be capable of if ever they found themselves in a world where they could apply chemistry or physics to their spells.  

[Andraste_Reborn]

Templars can nulify magic because they have lyrium in their blood, so lyrium bullets can penetrate any magic defense.

 

No, they can't. The Sha-Brytol use lyrium bolts, and magical barriers still block them. (Or even deflect them, if you're the Inqisitor and using Aegis of the Rift.)

[Ariella]

Well, Solas is technically a werewolf.

use lyrium then, Templars can nulify magic because they have lyrium in their blood, so lyrium bullets can penetrate any magic defense.

We have absolutely no evidence that silver works on werewolves in this universe.

As for Solas being a werewolf, I think not.

The only thing in common with real world legend is that a bite from an infected individual spreads the curse. According to the Codex on werewolves, they are subject to an uncontrollable rage.

That is not Solas. Being able to shapeshift into a wolf does not equal werewolf.

As for lyrium and nulifying magic. It's not just lyrium, it also takes a thinking mind and will. Why do you think Templars learn mental focusing techniques. By your description Templars should be able to just stand there and null out magical effects.

Also if it was just lyrium, mages couldn't use it to bolster their reserves of mana.

Have you paid any attention to the lore at all in this game? I mean, really. This is basic school primer information when it comes to the setting.

[Qis]

How on earth did you come up with these assumptions? 

 

This...

 

 

And this...

 

[Qis]

We have absolutely no evidence that silver works on werewolves in this universe.

As for Solas being a werewolf, I think not. Have you even bothered to look at the lore of DA?

The only thing in common with real world legend is that a bite from an infected individual spreads the curse. According to the Codex on werewolves, they are subject to an uncontrollable rage.

That is not Solas. Being able to shapeshift into a wolf does not equal werewolf.

 

Silver bullets is a universally accepted thrope in werewolf universe.

 

The werewolf in Brecilian Forest is different werewolf in Lycanthorpy Plague, they are different thing and so universal werewolf thrope still apply to original werewolf.

 

If able to morph intio wolf don't define what a werewolf is, what then?

[Ariella]

Silver bullets is a universally accepted thrope in werewolf universe.
 
The werewolf in Brecilian Forest is different werewolf in Lycanthorpy Plague, they are different thing and so universal werewolf thrope still apply to original werewolf.
 
If able to morph intio wolf don't define what a werewolf is, what then?

Bull. It's accepted in European lore, not DA lore. Dragon Age doesn't automatically follow the rules, it has its own fundamental laws. Read the codex.

There are any number of examples in non-European folklore about shape shifting. It's not an uncommon concept among shaman of certain Native American tribes.

What Solas can do is controlled shapeshifting. Werewolves are generally cursed creatures, which is the case in Dragon Age lore. But there is no indication at all they're affected by silver or that they're affected by moon changes. Plus werewolves tend to be a man/wolf hybrid. Not just shape shift into a wolf.

Look up the blasted lore. It's in the game, and at the wiki, and I'm sure there are a number of other sources. But the DA setting is not a copy and paste of European lore.

[Ariella]

This...
 
https://www.youtube....h?v=sxAXMMQ4IF0
 
And this...
 
https://www.youtube....h?v=N3vRIZcqBn4

One is for a game that has nothing to do with DA and the other is for a game that isn't even out yet and while a BW title is unrelated to DA.

Dragon Age doesn't follow your rules. Dragon Age follows the rules set down by the development team.

You're making assumptions that are not supported by lore.

[Qis]

Bull. It's accepted in European lore, not DA lore. Dragon Age doesn't automatically follow the rules, it has its own fundamental laws. Read the codex.

There are any number of examples in non-European folklore about shape shifting. It's not an uncommon concept among shaman of certain Native American tribes.

What Solas can do is controlled shapeshifting. Werewolves are generally cursed creatures, which is the case in Dragon Age lore. But there is no indication at all they're affected by silver or that they're affected by moon changes. Plus werewolves tend to be a man/wolf hybrid. Not just shape shift into a wolf.

Look up the blasted lore. It's in the game, and at the wiki, and I'm sure there are a number of other sources. But the DA setting is not a copy and paste of European lore.

 

 

No matter, if Qunari use their guns, Solas is dead, simple