287 réponses à ce sujet

[Angry_Elcor]

When will humans stop making human stories!?!??!???!1111!?!???!?!?1110010001100101010!!?

[straykat]

I don't mind humans. I can't emphasize that enough. I'm not bored with it.

 

It's the "ancient evil/one ring/affliction/mark/star forge/artifact" stuff I'm getting tired of.

 

It's like they got their ideas from Mad Libs, and filled the blanks for different stories.

[Grieving Natashina]

Let me start off by saying that I'm not trying to step on any toes here, but I noticed that the topic of the iffy science in Mass Effect came up.

I don't think the ME series is science-fiction by any stretch. I think it's Science Fantasy. That genre has a mix of science and magic elements to it. Oftentimes in those stories, there is some elements of known scientific facts. However, they will also throw in any supernatural and/or magical elements as they see fit. The "science" part tends be played fast and loose.

This series may be branded as sci-fi, but it's really science-fantasy. It explains some of the space magic elements, even though it doesn't justify their execution or lack of consistency.

[Il Divo]

Its hard to believe human's are genetically diverse compared to other species when we rather inbreed on Earth and know little about the genetics of other species. Its quite clear Bioware did some research when they were making the ME series e.g. asari reproduction are based on real life parthenogenesis, so they should've at least gotten some of the facts about humanity right including the lack of genetic diversity among humans.

 

 

Except you just fell into the same fallacy. Saying "we don't know about other species" and how we're not genetically diverse doesn't work. Again: show me the Salarian corpse that you have experimented on which says that we cannot be more genetically diverse relative to a fictional species. And even if you do, you would still be faced with a million contradictions and non-sensical issues with regards to lore.Saying parthenogenesis does not suddenly make Asari reproduction any less insane. It's essentially magic mind sex. 

 

 

ME1 didn't gave an impression of human's being the most important species in the galaxy and there's a a difference between playing as a human character and the story being human centered. 

 

 

For one, everyone can't seem to stop commenting on our rise to power, to the point of reaching on par with the main political force of the galaxy. We already managed to prove our superiority to every race sans the Council ones in a few short decades. From that point, it's simply a question of how long before we're awarded Council membership. There is also the ME1 ending, where we've either proven we're worthy of ascension or initiated a hostile take-over since Renegade is essentially a human supremacist view point. To a large extent, Paragon/Renegade is on several occasions portrayed as being whether humanity wants to cooperate with the other races, or stand on their own, as reflected via Kaidan and Ashley. That also goes a long way towards emphasizing the human focus of the story. 

[Il Divo]

Let me start off by saying that I'm not trying to step on any toes here, but I noticed that the topic of the iffy science in Mass Effect came up.

I don't think the ME series is science-fiction by any stretch. I think it's Science Fantasy. That genre has a mix of science and magic elements to it. Oftentimes in those stories, there is some elements of known scientific facts. However, they will also throw in any supernatural and/or magical elements as they see fit. The "science" part tends be played fast and loose.

This series may be branded as sci-fi, but it's really science-fantasy. It explains some of the space magic elements, even though it doesn't justify their execution or lack of consistency.

 

Exactly. It's kinda like when writers throw around phrases like "nanobots" because it sounds high-tech. It's essentially pseudo-science. And there's nothing wrong with that. 

[In Exile]

wat

 

Your sarcasm-fu needs work.

[Keitaro57]

SquareEnix made the same thing.

Ivalice is a multispecies world with different sentient races and was used as a background in several games, especially tactical-RPG ones.

Then, SquareEnix made a big JRPG : Final Fantasy XII. A human-centred story... And I feeled empty while playing the game. Almost all the hero team was human (exept the bikini chainmail fanservice girl) and, during the whole game, I get the feeling I was only scratching the surface of the possibilities, of the Lore and the background. Even if I loved all the gameboy advance game, I hated this PS2 game. I don't want to see that again.

 

If ME : A consist of a 99,99% human ark with few other species member only here to bring diversity to the squademates, I will pass.

[Shechinah]

I still have no idea how Udina thought he could get away with trying to make the Council all human in Mass Effect 1 because the previously councilors had died. Did he honestly think that none of the other races especially the councilor races would object to this move? Did he not think of how this would come off as a mighty tad suspecious and make humanity look awful if they allowed the council to die and then tried to fill the council positions with humans?   

 

Did he call dibs and thought that would be the end of it? 

[Shechinah]

Why did humanity gain a councilor seat besides player satisfaction? I was under the impression that a council seat required the race in question to be sufficently advance and economically strong that they could help support galactic civilisation during emergencies and crisises. 

[SporkFu]

Like destroying a reaper and stopping it from summoning a thousand more?

[Vortex13]

I miss the ME 1 depiction of the aliens compared to the subsequent games; the setting felt a lot more diverse and the aliens felt a lot more 'alien' in the first game. Perfect example being the Hanar as a serious take on an aquatic species with a rigid enforcement of extreme politeness instead of an overused and incredibly shallow meme. Likewise, the Geth were elaborated on in ME 2 and shown to be a rather unique synthetic society with wants, goals and perspectives wholly different from organics compared to the race of Pinocchio bots that only ever wanted to be just like us that they became in ME 3. The Elcor and Volus started out as a serious attempt at aliens, but like the Hanar (though not quite to same extent) they become joke races; all of their lore and ME 1 development thrown out the airlock for cheap laughs. Even the Rachni, the most 'alien' of all the alien races encountered was treated as nothing more than a glorified background prop as the trilogy advanced.

 

 

Having humanity excel at everything, and having us be the unquestioned ubermensch of the universe is annoying, but its the watering down and/or ignoring of the non-human elements that really aggravates me; and by non-human I mean the 'alien' aliens. Races like the Quarians, or Asari, even the Krogan are very humanized in their mannerisms, and societal structure. I would like to see more, learn more, explore more about these outlier species, but the narrative is either constantly ignoring them and/or turning them into memes or human wannabes. 

 

 

If we don't bring any of the more unique aliens from the Milky Way with us, or if Andromeda is inhabited solely by humans in rubber costumes in addition to the story being entirely about how awesome us humans I am going to be extremely disappointed.

[Halfdan The Menace]

Then there is a chance we get to see space Vikings, Celts and Mongols? please let it be true so we can have a big alien gorefest.

[Grieving Natashina]

The Elcor and Volus started out as a serious attempt at aliens, but like the Hanar (though not quite to same extent) they become joke races; all of their lore and ME 1 development thrown out the airlock for cheap laughs. Even the Rachni, the most 'alien' of all the alien races encountered was treated as nothing more than a glorified background prop as the trilogy advanced.

If we don't bring any of the more unique aliens from the Milky Way with us, or if Andromeda is inhabited solely by humans in rubber costumes in addition to the story being entirely about how awesome us humans I am going to be extremely disappointed.

I hear you on both counts. I thought the concept for the Volus was pretty interesting. Aliens that have a different biology from ours to the point where they need suits to maintain their proper pressure was a cool concept. Yet the only Volus that wasn't an outright criminal or idiot was Barla Von. The Hanar had some potential, thanks to Thane providing some history about the race. The Hanar NPCs in the series went from extremely polite and a little offputting (voices like the Tranquil) to a crazy brainwashed diplomat. Drove me nuts.

I feel confident in thinking that there will be new races to meet. However, if they are going to be truly alien ala the Elcor, Volus or Hanar, the writers shouldn't reduce the race(s) to yet another series of shallow stereotypes. A human centric story is fine by me. A "humans are the most special race ever" story and little species conflict isn't interesting to me. Besides, if a bunch of races are all on this giant ship/Ark/Citadel 2.0 it isn't going to be hand holding and hugs all the time. There needs to be some conflict, but without making it almost cartoonish.

The main race that had more than just a mild dislike of humans in ME was the bartarians. They were terrorists, hiding Reaper tech for 20 years, and were aggressive towards pretty much every other race. So they were a rather two dimensional race, and was damned near completely wiped out. I would like to see a race that doesn't like/doesn't trust humans at all that aren't such overdone villains.

[In Exile]

Why did humanity gain a councilor seat besides player satisfaction? I was under the impression that a council seat required the race in question to be sufficently advance and economically strong that they could help support galactic civilisation during emergencies and crisises.

Because humans are awesome. All of ME1 is about awesome humans doing awesome things thanks to their inherent awesomeness and teaching those aliens a thing or two about what it takes to succeed.

[CronoDragoon]

Exactly. It's kinda like when writers throw around phrases like "nanobots" because it sounds high-tech. It's essentially pseudo-science. And there's nothing wrong with that. 

 

Seems like a good time to bust out this great quote by Drew K about the Dark Energy ending:

 

Dark Energy was something that only organics could access because of various techno-science magic reasons we hadn't decided on yet.

 

I'd agree it's more science fantasy.

[KaiserShep]

Because humans are awesome. All of ME1 is about awesome humans doing awesome things thanks to their inherent awesomeness and teaching those aliens a thing or two about what it takes to succeed.

 

Xenos don't know. 

[ComedicSociopathy]

Don't really care. ME wasn't ever all that good at making the non-human races of their setting interesting, especially when compared to Dragon Age's efforts.

 

Honestly, the only race I'd be willing to play beside human would be the geth and as someone already brought up ME 3 messed them up already. 

[Drone223]

Because humans are awesome. All of ME1 is about awesome humans doing awesome things thanks to their inherent awesomeness and teaching those aliens a thing or two about what it takes to succeed.

No it wasn't ME2/3 was more guilty of this than ME1. 

[Il Divo]

Well, you know, guilt being a relative thing. ME1's endings revolving around whether humanity wants to bother cooperating with the other races or simply go out and take over the galaxy. Whichever way you look at it, ME1 is about humanity rising in prominence and importance, not dropping off the radar. ME2 and 3 just follow on the domino effect. 

[Drone223]

Well, you know, guilt being a relative thing. ME1's endings revolving around whether humanity wants to bother cooperating with the other races or simply go out and take over the galaxy. Whichever way you look at it, ME1 is about humanity rising in prominence and importance, not dropping off the radar. ME2 and 3 just follow on the domino effect. 

In ME1 humanity wasn't the sole focus of things and the threat from the reaper's concerned the whole galaxy.  They only became the sole focus in ME2/3 were everything was being done by humans and the made the reaper's as more of a threat to humanity rather than the whole galaxy like in ME1.

[blahblahblah]

No it wasn't ME2/3 was more guilty of this than ME1.

Stop it Drone, your ME1 bias is showing.

[Drone223]

 

Stop it Drone, your ME1 bias is showing.

Its not a bias, the whole "take back earth" in ME3 and the collector's targeting humans in ME2 speaks for itself.

[Il Divo]

In ME1 humanity wasn't the sole focus of things and the threat from the reaper's concerned the whole galaxy. They only became the sole focus in ME2/3 were everything was being done by humans and the reaper's developing an obsession with humanity. 

 

Wait, were we playing the same version of ME1? I seem to recall the entire Council carrying the idiot ball all the way through ME1's plot, with humanity swooping in to either save the Council Races at the last second earning a Council seat, or letting them die at which point executing a hostile take over and establishing human dominance. That fits pretty well within the context of "everything being done by humans", particularly since one of ME1's primary themes deals with how as humans we wish to interact with everyone around us. Add on top of that we're playing an iconic figure in human history who serves as one of the first humans to attain a major position in the galactic scene via Spectre status. 

 

As for the first point, I seem to recall the  Reapers still stepping in to murder everyone in the galaxy of ME2 and 3. Sure, they want to turn us into a human slushy. But I can't see why that would make for a human-focused narrative relative to say just being straight murdered.  

[blahblahblah]

Its not a bias, the whole "take back earth" in ME3 and the collector's targeting humans in ME2 speaks for itself.

Humans making its way to became part of the Council and the only ones capable of defeating Sovereign and the geth. And lets not forget that Shepard became a Spectre, a rank that is reserve for Council races makes humanity special. ME2 and ME3 depicts humans are special since ME1 makes us such and that's a Franchise Original Sin.

[Drone223]

Wait, were we playing the same version of ME1? I seem to recall the entire Council carrying the idiot ball all the way through ME1's plot, with humanity swooping in to either save the Council Races at the last second earning a Council seat, or letting them die at which point executing a hostile take over and establishing human dominance. That fits pretty well within the context of "everything being done by humans", particularly since one of ME1's primary themes deals with how we wish to interact with everyone around us. Add on top of that we're playing a major political figure who serves as one of the first humans to attain a major position in the galactic scene via Spectre status. 

 

 

It is possible for a new council to consist of the other council species (depending on the P/R score) and then there is Udina grounding the Normandy since he agreed with the council blockading the relay's that lead to citadel space.

 

 

As for the first point, I seem to recall the  Reapers still stepping in to murder everyone in the galaxy of ME2 and 3. Sure, they want to turn us into a human slushy. But I can't see why that would make for a human-focused narrative relative to say just being straight murdered.  

 

The collector specifically attacking human colonies and using them to build a human reaper was the main focus in ME2. In ME3 there was "take back earth" and the other homeworlds being having less importance.