287 réponses à ce sujet

[Drone223]

Humans making its way to became part of the Council and the only ones capable of defeating Sovereign and the geth. And lets not forget that Shepard became a Spectre, a rank that is reserve for Council races makes humanity special. ME2 and ME3 depicts humans are special since ME1 makes us such and that's a Franchise Original Sin.

Humanity wasn't the sole focus in ME1, human's weren't depicted as being good at everything and the threat of the reaper's wasn't focused on humanity alone the human fleet could've also not bothered with the geth and focused solely on sovereign. In ME2/3 human's were suddenly good at everything and the reaper's threat was mainly focused on humanity with the other species being more on an afterthought. 

[Il Divo]

It is possible for a new council to consist of the other council species (depending on the P/R score) and then there is Udina grounding the Normandy since he agreed with the council blockading the relay's that lead to citadel space.

 

 

What is this specifically meant to suggest? Renegade is certainly far off the deep end of being about human supremacy, but that doesn't mean Paragon isn't heavily influenced by it as well. This is why I keep pointing out ME1 being focused on everyone mentioning our status as a rising power and how even in the Paragon scenario, humanity is solely responsible for saving the Council races from their own idiocy. That's not a good starting point for a story about how humanity is "just another faction". 

 

 

The collector specifically attacking human colonies and using them to build a human reaper was the main focus in ME2. In ME3 there was "take back earth" and the other homeworlds being having less importance. 

 

 

But that's another false comparison. ME1's initial premise was Saren + robots attacking a human colony and how no one will do anything about it. Actually, Anderson goes out of his way to point out Saren's intense hatred of humans and that whatever he plans, humanity is likely a major target, if not the main target. The Council themselves don't even seem to view him as a major threat at this stage, but are hunting him down out of professional obligation. 

 

And once more, put that in the context of ME1's protagonist centering around the 1st human Spectre in a game revolving around humanity's role in galactic affairs. How is this game not human-centric? Virtually everything Shepard does is in the context of his role as a leading figure in humanity, right from the opening cut-scene. 

[Il Divo]

Humanity wasn't the sole focus in ME1, human's weren't depicted as being good at everything and the threat of the reaper's wasn't focused on humanity alone the human fleet could've also not bothered with the geth and focused solely on sovereign. In ME2/3 human's were suddenly good at everything and the reaper's threat was mainly focused on humanity with the other species being more on an afterthought. 

 

Once more, let's stop ignoring in game evidence. Humans not being good at everything is directly contradicted by our super rise to power in the span of decades, not to mention our subsequent rise either equal to or above the Council races. 

[Drone223]

What is this specifically meant to suggest? Renegade is certainly far off the deep end of being about human supremacy, but that doesn't mean Paragon isn't heavily influenced by it as well. This is why I keep pointing out ME1 being focused on everyone mentioning our status as a rising power and how even in the Paragon scenario, humanity is solely responsible for saving the Council races from their own idiocy. That's not a good starting point for a story about how humanity is "just another faction". 

 

A paragon Shepard could've easily chose to ignore the council and focus on sovereign 

 

 

But that's another false comparison. ME1's initial premise was Saren + robots attacking a human colony and how no one will do anything about it. Actually, Anderson goes out of his way to point out Saren's intense hatred of humans and that whatever he plans, humanity is likely a major target, if not the main target. The Council themselves don't even seem to view him as a major threat at this stage, but are hunting him down out of professional obligation. 

 

 

It wasn't the only reason he joined the reaper he'd also thought submission was preferable to excitation, they also did take him as a serious threat since he's working with the geth.

 

And once more, put that in the context of ME1's protagonist centering around the 1st human Spectre in a game revolving around humanity's role in galactic affairs. How is this game not human-centric? Virtually everything Shepard does is in the context of his role as a leading figure in humanity, right from the opening cut-scene. 

 

The main antagonist in ME1 wasn't a threat to one species but the whole galaxy, ME2/3 the antagonist were more focused on one particular species than the whole galaxy.

[blahblahblah]

A paragon Shepard could've easily chose to ignore the council and focus on sovereign 
 
 

It wasn't the only reason he joined the reaper he'd also thought submission was preferable to excitation, they also did take him as a serious threat since he's working with the geth.
 

The main antagonist in ME1 wasn't a threat to one species but the whole galaxy, ME2/3 the antagonist were more focused on one particular species than the whole galaxy.

Ignorance is a bliss.

[KaiserShep]

Humanity wasn't the sole focus in ME1, human's weren't depicted as being good at everything and the threat of the reaper's wasn't focused on humanity alone the human fleet could've also not bothered with the geth and focused solely on sovereign. In ME2/3 human's were suddenly good at everything and the reaper's threat was mainly focused on humanity with the other species being more on an afterthought. 

 

Let's not kid ourselves about ME1. Humans were overachievers from the get-go. Galactic civilization has been chugging along for over a thousand years, more than enough time for the aliens to refine what they've learned from the Citadel, mass relays and beacons that they've discovered. Humanity stumbles across a beacon, finds the relay and suddenly they can go toe to toe with a civilization that has been flying between stars since before the Roman empire keeled over and died, all within the span of just 30-something years. 

[Drone223]

 

Once more, let's stop ignoring in game evidence. Humans not being good at everything is directly contradicted by our super rise to power in the span of decades, not to mention our subsequent rise either equal to or above the Council races. 

Wrong, asari have the best biotics and largest economy in the galaxy, the turians have the best military in council space, the Salarians are unrivaled when it comes to intelligence and the geth/ quarian's are known for their technical capabilities. Humanity has yet to have an economy as big as any of the council races and even some of the citadel races or being the most technologically advance species in the galaxy.

[Il Divo]

A paragon Shepard could've easily chose to ignore the council and focus on sovereign

 

 

I'm not sure what you mean here. My argument is that, in that scenario, and throughout ME1, it is humanity being portrayed as entirely competent and getting the job done. The above supports that assessment and is still in keeping with the idea of ME1 constantly emphasizing how it's only a matter of time before we obtain a Council seat through our own awesome abilities, while everyone around us stagnates. 

 

ME1 isn't about the Volus and when they're going to get the first Volus Spectre. Or about humanity's regression as a species as other people take control. Or about us struggling to eek out an existence in the galaxy. ME1 in an overarching sense is about humanity's rise to power. Think Hero's Journey on both a personal level for Shepard and on a species-level. By the game's end, we've either equaled or surpassed every other species, at an unprecedented pace. Saying ME2 and 3 are guilty of being human-focused is absurd in the face of the narrative ME1 set out to establish. 

 

It wasn't the only reason he joined the reaper he'd also thought submission was preferable to excitation, they also did take him as a serious threat since he's working with the geth.

 

 

Well, until they point out that Saren is on the run for his life and denied all Council resources, qualifying a single human ship to be capable of stopping him. 

 

The main antagonist in ME1 wasn't a threat to one species but the whole galaxy, ME2/3 the antagonist were more focused on one particular species than the whole galaxy.

 

 

Note the contradiction here. Saren is portrayed as a threat to humanity throughout most of ME1, but you regard the threat as galactic level. The Collectors/Reapers focused on humanity, but apparently they're not a threat to the whole galaxy? Did they suddenly stop declaring the genocide on the other races when we weren't looking? 

[Il Divo]

 

 

Wrong, asari have the best biotics and largest economy in the galaxy, the turians have the best military in council space, the Salarians are unrivaled when it comes to intelligence and the geth/ quarian's are known for their technical capabilities. Humanity has yet to have an economy as big as any of the council races and even some of the citadel races or being the most technologically advance species in the galaxy.

 

 

Let's try an analogy. If you're a child prodigy in the field of physics, you're going to be better than most people in the field in little to no time, but there might still be some physicists outside your reach. If you're a child prodigy who has a couple years of experience, you're going to be better than damn near everyone in the field. So on and so forth. 

 

Talking about all the people who are "better than us" at things is irrelevant. The argument is not whether there are other people currently higher than us up the ladder, at present. The Asari and Salarians are basically the physicists who are just barely beyond our reach, to go back to the analogy. But as everyone keeps reminding us:

 

A. We've beaten everyone else in record amounts of time. 

B. We're going to equal if not surpass the people above us in little to no time. 

 

Your assertion that we are not insanely capable is questionable based on in game evidence. All the in game evidence indicates we are about to eclipse everybody. 

[KaiserShep]

Yeah, give MEU's humans the same span of time the asari had since their initial discovery of the Citadel, and they'd probably become the new Protheans. 

[Il Divo]

Looking at the time line of the First Contact War at least on the ME wiki, it's actually even more dramatic than I thought. 2157 was the start of the war and ME1's events start in 2183. We launched to the second tier of galactic civilization in 26 years. 

[Eelectrica]

Looking at the time line of the First Contact War at least on the ME wiki, it's actually even more dramatic than I thought. 2157 was the start of the war and ME1's events start in 2183. We launched to the second tier of galactic civilization in 26 years. 

ME's timelines never did make much sense compared to the real life.

I mean In real terms it's now a little over 46 years since we landed on the Moon. NASA has plans to go visit Mars, but even that's years away.

They could have explained it with the Reapers upgrading our tech and knowledge behind the scenes or some other alien faction doing that, I guess they still might.

In the ME 'verse, we didn't crawl before walking, but skipped straight to sprinting a marathon.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

They could have explained it with the Reapers upgrading our tech and knowledge behind the scenes or some other alien faction doing that, I guess they still might.

In the ME 'verse, we didn't crawl before walking, but skipped straight to sprinting a marathon.

Don't they already do that with the Prothean data on Mars? It was only after humanity discovered that that our progression accelerated exponentially. In ME1 Anderson even says if it wasn't for those ruins, we would still be stuck on Earth. 

[Eelectrica]

Don't they already do that with the Prothean data on Mars? It was only after humanity discovered that that our progression accelerated exponentially. In ME1 Anderson even says if it wasn't for those ruins, we would still be stuck on Earth. 

That does sound familiar. it was one hell of a disk though.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That does sound familiar. it was one hell of a disk though.

Well, in ME3 we learn it was a lot bigger than how it sounded. 

 

[SporkFu]

That does sound familiar. it was one hell of a disk though.

At the beginning of ME1, captain Anderson and Nihlus explain to shep that the prothean data on Mars -- and we know from ME3 that it was more than a single disc -- jumped human technology forward two hundred years. Think of how far we've advanced since 1815, and that the rate of advancement is increasing as well, and I dunno if it's that much of a stretch to imagine humanity as part of the galactic community in 2183.

[Wulfram]

At the beginning of ME1, captain Anderson and Nihlus explain to shep that the prothean data on Mars -- and we know from ME3 that it was more than a single disc -- jumped human technology forward two hundred years. Think of how far we've advanced since 1815, and that the rate of advancement is increasing as well, and I dunno if it's that much of a stretch to imagine humanity as part of the galactic community in 2183.

But jumping us forward 200 years from a pre-interstellar travel level should still leave us 2380 years behind the Asari

[KaiserShep]

But jumping us forward 200 years from a pre-interstellar travel level should still leave us 2380 years behind the Asari

 

Well, 200 years did seem more like an arbitrary figure just to convey the idea that it gave humanity a boost. Then we had TIM going on about how humanity saw more advancement in the few years since discovering the relay than the last 10 thousand years combined. 

[Master Race]

Humanity is the master race forever and always. I can't wait to colonize some planets and wipe out some lesser species.

[9TailsFox]

But jumping us forward 200 years from a pre-interstellar travel level should still leave us 2380 years behind the Asari

Human just got technology everyone else have. 

[Ahriman]

Well, 200 years did seem more like an arbitrary figure just to convey the idea that it gave humanity a boost. Then we had TIM going on about how humanity saw more advancement in the few years since discovering the relay than the last 10 thousand years combined. 

The same boost asari got 3000 years ago. Yet in 2187 Alliance has same tech level and territory comparable to the whole Council space. We just have to accept that all aliens are mentally incapable and their free existence is just a sign of endless human generosity. I expect the same in MEA, guess who will control ARKON, design and build Ark? Bioware never change.

[themikefest]

A paragon Shepard could've easily chose to ignore the council and focus on sovereign 

Yep. I did a paragon playthrough and told the fleet to focus on Sovereign. I have no reason to save the council.

[In Exile]

Don't they already do that with the Prothean data on Mars? It was only after humanity discovered that that our progression accelerated exponentially. In ME1 Anderson even says if it wasn't for those ruins, we would still be stuck on Earth. 

 

But that technology is supposed to get us to the level of the rest of the galaxy. Part of the (now abandoned) pitch of ME which you still see in ME1 is that the entire galaxy stagnated technologically for millenia as no on bothered to build on the Protheans. Humans - being the superlative geniuses that they are - come in and then start to revolutionize everything.

 

It's why we have aircraft carries when no one else does, why we invent medi-gel, etc. That's part of the humans are special trope. The Council - if they live - give you another one. 

[Vortex13]

I really wish Chris L'Etoile was still with BioWare, out of the writing staff, no one could make the other species as 'alien' as he could. Humanity may have been special snowflakes, but at least the aliens were interesting to see and learn about. 

[Zerc]

NO! I wanted my cow story! D: