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[Majestic Jazz]

Wait, wasn't this the same human race that in the span of a few decades managed to attain political status/power that other races had spent lifetimes trying to achieve, which everyone goes out of their way to comment on?

 

ME1 wasn't about humans as a small fish in a big ocean, it was humanity right on the cusp of becoming a galactic super power. Luckily ME2 retconned the renegade ending, but that aspect of ME1 also didn't do a great job of downplaying the idea that humans are special/awesome. If ME2 was about how amazing humans were, it was only because ME1 basically told us that this was where the writers were going.
 

 

Either way, the ME series was too big on Humans being the almighty race of the galaxy. I was hoping that MEA toned that down a bit, but it may appear that MEA will yet again be about Humans being special, superior, or almighty powerful while the other races just sits back and looks in awe.

[Mdizzletr0n]

I guess I'm okay with the game being told from a human perspective as long as that doesn't mean that humanity is front and center to the whole game and gets everything handed on a silver plate like in the original trilogy. People claim that the trilogy was essentially about humanity finding ist place in the galaxy, but that entire story was nothing but annoying to me, because it was handled so poorly.

Humanity had been part of the galactic society for about 30 years by the beginning of ME1, but instead of painting us as the underdogs, actually having us fight for our rights and making the player feel that humans were still outsiders, we somehow had this amazing military on par with everyone else, were favored over the batarians to the point of them leaving the citadel. We had the first human spectre handed to us in no time and when we save the council at the end of the game, we immediately get a seat. For winning a single batte, after we've been there for no more than 30 years. Volus basically built the intergalactic economy and joined galactic society... oh, only about 2000 (!) years ago. Not to mention that god-awful other ending where humanity basically occupies the citadel and replaces the concil with no one doing anything about it. Seriously, I never took that choice after seeing the follow-up in ME2.

I won't even mention the "take back earth" stuff in ME3. You know what would have been way more powerful and in line with "finding your place in the galaxy"? Realising that it wasn't all about humanity and that earth was not worth more than any of the other home worlds. Without that weird plot device of suddenly justifying everything by moving the citadel to earth. And without introducing this whole "humans are mor interesting to the reapers because genetic diversity" bs.

PREACH!

[Gothfather]

This idea that Humans shouldn't be the Dominate species in Andromeda amongst the Milky way colonists is predicated on what? We have almost zero information on the ark. What if the Ark was a human initiative? Wouldn't have make humans dominate?

 

I agree with the notion that they presented humans as too awe spangled awesome in the original series. It didn't fit well with the story told, it conflicted with the setting and theme of the game as well. Yet ME:A is a reboot, there are no established colonies or worlds of the other citadel space races with thousands of years head start to humanity.

 

There is NOTHING about ME:A that can't rationally place humans at the top of the food chain politically speaking within Andromeda among the milky way colonists. This colonization reset the power structures and the creator of the ark program will have a significant advantage. Is that humanity? I don't know, but to automatically rule out humanity or that it won't be a good story if humanity does have an advantage is unfair.

 

Before we start declaring what should and should be the way things are in Andromeda perhaps we should wait till we have more information? What is the premiss of the story? What are the themes? If the theme is about colonisation and humanity's exploration of the next frontier then humans should be at the forefront because it is about how we as a people make a home for ourselves in a hostile and foreign galaxy. hell maybe its just another messiah story like they don't over use that trope, Kotor, ME1-3 and DA:I it's getting stale. But until we know more all this is speculation and no one should make definitive statements of what should and shouldn't be without facts.

[Satele-Shan87]

I like the human story and Shepard will always be Shepard. What I don't want is for the Andromeda human to be worshipped. The human should be a grunt under the leadership of another species.

Interesting opinion.

[In Exile]

Wait, wasn't this the same human race that in the span of a few decades managed to attain political status/power that other races had spent lifetimes trying to achieve, which everyone goes out of their way to comment on?

 

ME1 wasn't about humans as a small fish in a big ocean, it was humanity right on the cusp of becoming a galactic super power. Luckily ME2 retconned the renegade ending, but that aspect of ME1 also didn't do a great job of downplaying the idea that humans are special/awesome. If ME2 was about how amazing humans were, it was only because ME1 basically told us that this was where the writers were going.
 

 

ME2 and ME3 toned it down hardcore in terms of the raw dominance of humanity in the galaxy, which the ME1 ending portrayed as a de facto usurpation regardless of the veneer (ignoring the insanity of the all renegade human council ending). ME2's portrayal of humanity is mistrusted solely because the council died is a major improvement.

 

"Humans are diverse" isn't really a "humans are special" trope, unless you want to say e.g. Babylon 5 was about humans being special. 

[Vortex13]

I would like to see a focus on alien elements for ME:Andromeda. A human protagonist is fine, just don't make everything about us, or have the narrative camera following only us for the entire game. Also, don't exclude the alien elements for the sake of social commentary or soap boxing. I don't care about trending social issue #689, or daddy issues. I want to learn more about that species that communicates via gamma ray bursts, or the race that is sapient, but not sentient in human terms.

 

Out of the four, two are wholly unique to a science fiction setting, and the others are something that can be seen every day just by turing on the news or loading up Twitter.

[Ahglock]

ME2 and ME3 toned it down hardcore in terms of the raw dominance of humanity in the galaxy, which the ME1 ending portrayed as a de facto usurpation regardless of the veneer (ignoring the insanity of the all renegade human council ending). ME2's portrayal of humanity is mistrusted solely because the council died is a major improvement.

"Humans are diverse" isn't really a "humans are special" trope, unless you want to say e.g. Babylon 5 was about humans being special.

Yeah I thought the human dominance thing gets over played.

Salarians are smarter and better scientists.

Asari natural biotics

Krogans are freaking mini tanks.

Turians are organized militaristic.

Humans were average with the possibility of individuals to excel in any field. Very D&D.

While yes they advance quicker than other council races but look at the ones who don't advance. Pretty much piles of races that don't really field armies which is the entry requirement. Batarians? Yeah they are going to support the slaver race.

The ME1 ending was dumb but outside of that they were usually the little fish. Hell the destiny Ascension gives as many war assets as entire alliance fleets.

It's from a human perspective so we aren't seeing what the other races have and bring in the big picture only what they devote to your efforts.

[Wulfram]

Yeah I thought the human dominance thing gets over played.

Salarians are smarter and better scientists.

Humans have been making all the discoveries and scientific advances.

Turians are organized militaristic.

And in the First Contact War they could only manage an embarrassing draw against humanity when humanity hadn't even had Mass Effect technology for a decade

[Keitaro57]

Humans have been making all the discoveries and scientific advances.


And in the First Contact War they could only manage an embarrassing draw against humanity when humanity hadn't even had Mass Effect technology for a decade

What human scientific advanced discoveries are so important in the ME universe? I'm serious. I'm really wondering what they are so advanced at.

 

And about the First Contact, they only engaged a small advanced fleet. Humanity was saved by the other council races before they get vaporized by the HUGE Turian fleet.

 

I repeat myself but Asar, Salarian, Turian and other species have made space explorations for thousands of years, so saying that humanity bettern them in that category is pretty arrogant.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

What human scientific advanced discoveries are so important in the ME universe? I'm serious. I'm really wondering what they are so advanced at.

Well, them managing to bring the dead back to life comes to mind. 

[Keitaro57]

Well, them managing to bring the dead back to life comes to mind. 

The Citadel's DLC told me that this science has the big drawback to bring late problems like dine and dash doppelgangers all around the place. Fearing to lose your credit card, car, house and wife because of some pile of spare parts is too frightening to be called an advancement in science.^^

[Wulfram]

What human scientific advanced discoveries are so important in the ME universe? I'm serious. I'm really wondering what they are so advanced at.

More technology rather than science I suppose to be precise. Medi-gel is the biggest example. The Normandy's stealth system would be another
 

And about the First Contact, they only engaged a small advanced fleet. Humanity was saved by the other council races before they get vaporized by the HUGE Turian fleet.

Sure, the Turians would have swarmed humanity under quickly enough, numbers count eventually. But it's still an utterly terrible performance when you've had 2500 years extra time to get good at fighting with this sort of technology. You shouldn't be relying on numbers to beat primitives, especially if being good soldiers is supposed to be your thing.
 

I repeat myself but Asar, Salarian, Turian and other species have made space explorations for thousands of years, so saying that humanity bettern them in that category is pretty arrogant.

But they're better at everything else

[Vortex13]

You had the Cerberus funded medi-gel upgrade that helps treat Turians far better than anything else the combined efforts of the galaxy could come up with, and they did it by accident when trying to make it to better serve humans.

It's like the KKK discovering a cure for cancer, when the rest of the planet is still struggling to just combat it.


Cerberus is also better at intercepting and decripting highly classified data than the salarians, and they are also better at covert insertion being able to land whole battalions of troops on one of the most heavily guarded and classified locations on Surkesh.

[In Exile]

More technology rather than science I suppose to be precise. Medi-gel is the biggest example. The Normandy's stealth system would be another

But it's an ME1 example. That's when humanity being special was the trope. It gets dropped later on. 

 

You had the Cerberus funded medi-gel upgrade that helps treat Turians far better than anything else the combined efforts of the galaxy could come up with, and they did it by accident when trying to make it to better serve humans.

It's like the KKK discovering a cure for cancer, when the rest of the planet is still struggling to just combat it.


Cerberus is also better at intercepting and decripting highly classified data than the salarians, and they are also better at covert insertion being able to land whole battalions of troops on one of the most heavily guarded and classified locations on Surkesh.

 

But this is more bad writing than humans are special, because Cerberus isn't meant to be good at these things lore-wise, they just are actually portrayed that way because of poor plotting. 

[AlanC9]

...and they are also better at covert insertion being able to land whole battalions of troops on one of the most heavily guarded and classified locations on Surkesh.

That's explicitly said to have been possible because they have access to Reaper tech.

[Keitaro57]

More technology rather than science I suppose to be precise. Medi-gel is the biggest example. The Normandy's stealth system would be another
 

Sure, the Turians would have swarmed humanity under quickly enough, numbers count eventually. But it's still an utterly terrible performance when you've had 2500 years extra time to get good at fighting with this sort of technology. You shouldn't be relying on numbers to beat primitives, especially if being good soldiers is supposed to be your thing.
 

But they're better at everything else

The Normandy is a Turian-Human joint construction.

 

The Turian fleet were able to block at bay the Reapers fleet and fought back, while almost all the human military forces were crushed instantly. The Reapers took Earth's moon in a matter of seconds. Palaven's moon never fall.

 

And, no, humans are not tougher than Krogan, no better biotics than Asari, not stealthier than Drell, not sturdiest than Elcor, not better marchant than Volus... They are average everywhere and, most of the time, inferior against the aliens in lot of parts. I don't understand why humanity MUST rule over andromeda while there are other species than best them in so many ways.

[Iakus]

ME2 and ME3 toned it down hardcore in terms of the raw dominance of humanity in the galaxy, which the ME1 ending portrayed as a de facto usurpation regardless of the veneer (ignoring the insanity of the all renegade human council ending). ME2's portrayal of humanity is mistrusted solely because the council died is a major improvement.

 

"Humans are diverse" isn't really a "humans are special" trope, unless you want to say e.g. Babylon 5 was about humans being special. 

Wait, what?

 

In ME1, hardly any human officers were in C-Sec.  In ME2 they dominated, and in ME3 the Executor himself was human!

 

In ME2 we learn that the founding members of one of the most notorious merc groups in the galaxy (the Blue Suns) were a pair of humans

 

Humans are freaking everywhere in the Terminus!

[In Exile]

Wait, what?

In ME1, hardly any human officers were in C-Sec. In ME2 they dominated, and in ME3 the Executor himself was human!

In ME2 we learn that the founding members of one of the most notorious merc groups in the galaxy (the Blue Suns) were a pair of humans

Humans are freaking everywhere in the Terminus!

That's a nonsensical justification for humans are special. The ME2 reason for more humans in CSEC isn't "humans are so awesome". It's "everyone died" and humans happened to have warm bodied who had the experience to police, and nevertheless got awful postings in the ass end of the Citadel.

That doesn't even come close to the near worshipping level regard we see for humans in ME1.

[Dabrikishaw]

What about this is shocking to anyone?

[Iakus]

That's a nonsensical justification for humans are special. The ME2 reason for more humans in CSEC isn't "humans are so awesome". It's "everyone died" and humans happened to have warm bodied who had the experience to police, and nevertheless got awful postings in the ass end of the Citadel.

That doesn't even come close to the near worshipping level regard we see for humans in ME1.

I'm not trying to justify it.  I'm just pointing out that ME2 and ME3 were just as bad, if not worse at doing the "humans are special" thing.  

[Han Shot First]

You had the Cerberus funded medi-gel upgrade that helps treat Turians far better than anything else the combined efforts of the galaxy could come up with, and they did it by accident when trying to make it to better serve humans.

It's like the KKK discovering a cure for cancer, when the rest of the planet is still struggling to just combat it.


Cerberus is also better at intercepting and decripting highly classified data than the salarians, and they are also better at covert insertion being able to land whole battalions of troops on one of the most heavily guarded and classified locations on Surkesh.

 

Cerberus was a writers pet. Unless it involved a project that the plot required Shepard to shut down, Cerberus was always portrayed as being more competent than other people or organizations involved in the same activities. In Mass Effect 3 they also manage to steal the limelight from the Reapers throughout much of the game, despite it being set during the Reaper War. 

 

On that note...here is to hoping Cerberus died at the end of ME3 and doesn't find it's way to Andromeda.

[themikefest]

On that note...here is to hoping Cerberus died at the end of ME3 and doesn't find it's way to Andromeda.

I would not have a problem if Cerberus makes an appearance in the game. Or, at the very least, I would like to have a poster of TIM in my cabin.

[In Exile]

I'm not trying to justify it.  I'm just pointing out that ME2 and ME3 were just as bad, if not worse at doing the "humans are special" thing.  

 

But you are. Because you need for it to actually be about humans being special to make your point. Mine is that the example isn't a humans are special tropes, because it's not humans being picked on merit, or by virtue of having done anything other than not being all dead. It's a bad writing trope - the writers just didn't think that the other races would, you know, have lots of resources to replace dead C-Sec agents themselves. Though, of course, since the humans were on the Council it would be untenable for them not to have a presence. 

[Drone223]

 

I'm not trying to justify it.  I'm just pointing out that ME2 and ME3 were just as bad, if not worse at doing the "humans are special" thing.  

Actually ME2/ME3 were by far the worst offenders when it came to "humans are the best". The reaper's were focused primarily of humanity which they saw as the biggest threat. Then there was the nonsense with regrades to "human have lots of genetic diversity" which is in reality false since at one point humanity was reduced to a few thousand breeding pairs.

[Ahglock]

Actually ME2/ME3 were by far the worst offenders when it came to "humans are the best". The reaper's were focused primarily of humanity which they saw as the biggest threat. Then there was the nonsense with regrades to "human have lots of genetic diversity" which is in reality false since at one point humanity was reduced to a few thousand breeding pairs.

The other species were very specialized like fantasy races. The Mage race, the barbarian race, the scientists rave, warrior race, rogue race etc. humans were portrayed as a jack of all trades race in comparison. So comparatively genetically diverse.

But outside reaper obsession which was more of a Shepard fixation I just don't see it. I think people want too see that narrative as an avenue to complain and then start seeing evidence everywhere whether it's there or not.