574 réponses à ce sujet

[Monster A-Go Go]

No slow vehicle exploration (ME1) or time-consuming planet scanning (ME2).  My slow moments should be those I spend talking with my crew and pimping out my armor, not the time I spend trying to nudge my Mako over that laaaaaaaaaaaast little inch of mountain and...nope, it slid back down.  Sh*t. 

 

Not to say these can't be done correctly.  Loved exploring with a vehicle in Borderlands 2, for example.  Didn't mind the limited planet scanning in ME3.  It just needs to be involved enough that I don't reflexively use the activity as a chance to catch up on podcasts.

[CrimsonN7]

Lulz those tweets.

[Gamemako]

This guy:
 
Unlikely to happen because of free speech or more specifically selective free speech, but you never know.

Well, I don't think he'll be in the game anyhow, considering that he's a person and Mass Effect: Andromeda is a game. That said... feels like there is a bit of missing context here? The responses seem to be reading those tweets quite differently.
 

This brings up the interesting issue of, can you like something (a game, book, movie, music) without liking the creators?

Yes. I feel any alternative is the zombie child of association fallacy. That Russell Crowe is a stuffy prima donna does not mean he is not a talented actor, or that the films he acts in are diminished for his off-camera antics. Similarly, many find Orson Scott Card and his homophobic attitudes deplorable, but still adore his work.

For that matter, I don't think you really need to try to combine everything into a single unified whole and pass judgment. Hell, the legend who won an Oscar as Gandhi also featured in an Uwe Boll film.

[aoibhealfae]

Wasn't Manveer Heir just a gameplay designer... not story writer or anything.

 

And Mass Effect does have its own negative stereotype... Jacob and Kai Leng anyone.

[Oni Changas]

How are Jacob and Kai stereotypes? Please explain.

[aoibhealfae]

Jacob : Black dude dies first ("Sounds like a suicide mission, I volunteer") but I'm sure his propensity to cheating on FemShep may or may not factor in this

Kai Leng : Yellow Peril, Gratuitous Ninja, Idiot Ball ...gah I could go on... even Kasumi is a Space Ninja. 

[Monster A-Go Go]

Jacob : Black dude dies first ("Sounds like a suicide mission, I volunteer") but I'm sure his propensity to cheating on FemShep may or may not factor in this

Kai Leng : Yellow Peril, Gratuitous Ninja, Idiot Ball ...gah I could go on... even Kasumi is a Space Ninja. 

 

If you're just searching for tropes, then every character in everything ever is going to trip over something.  At some point you just have to accept that characters are going to have characteristics and that doesn't always mean some prejudice or ignorance on the part of their creator.

 

I mean, calling Jacob on the "Black dude dies first" thing based on one line is pretty disingenuous considering he's survived every one of my playthroughs and does nothing in the game more reckless than any other character.  You might have a wafer-thin case if you mention the absentee father, but then family issues are common throughout Mass Effect - Miranda and her dad, Liara and her mom, Wrex and his dad, Garrus and his dad, Samara and her daughters, Thane and his son, Tali and her dad, Vega and his dad.  At what point do you call something a theme or a touchstone and stop trying to stretch spiderwebs to join them with an obviously disconnected idea?

 

You might have a better case with Kai Leng.  I mean, I also groaned when he showed up as a ninja, but then I also groaned every time he showed up.  But hey, he was handled with aplomb throughout the novels and was actually fairly interesting without being typecast.  Yes, he is a ninja, but so is ever other Cerberus agent with Phantom implants.  Are all of them Asian?  Or are the non-Asian ones guilty of cultural appropriation?   It's one or the other.  And would it have been better for you if he had been a non-Asian ethnicity using the same techniques?  Should Western media never have another ninja-style character just to avoid tripwires?  Of course not.  Should they handle things sensitively?  In most cases, yet.  And in Mass Effect's case, they did.  Nothing was made of Kai Leng's ethnicity, just as nothing was made of Jacob's background or Shepard's entirely malleable race and gender. 

 

I'm right there on your side in swinging for correct and fair media representation, but at a certain point you have to realize that there's nothing in range for you to swing at.  And when you still try to swipe at something at that point, you're just punching at air.

[BraveVesperia]

How are Jacob and Kai stereotypes? Please explain.

With Jacob, I think it's the fact that he cheats on Shepard and gets another woman pregnant. Which seems pretty bizarre for his character in general, given his issues with his father.

[aoibhealfae]

Jacob narrative was already paper thin as it is but he is a token black guy in ME2 and predictably inconsequential to the larger narrative which is sad since he is still one of a main protagonist in the ME franchise. And then the writers turned him into a man-whor3 to punish FemShep while none of BroShep's lovers dare to treat him that way even if he himself can be sexually promiscuous. Very convenient... but Bioware at least tried to do it right with Koth Vortena.

 

A predictable bad evil token minority villain is a stereotype. Drew Karpyshynn did what Jay Kristoff did with Stormdancer; Knowing nothing about Asians, google it and appropriating them as convenient plot devices. Nobody even bother explain who and why Kai Leng is the way he is in ME3.. he's there because he's evil and look cool with his flowy hair and badass sword. Its funny that they give Allers more attention than they did with their villain.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

With Jacob, I think it's the fact that he cheats on Shepard and gets another woman pregnant. Which seems pretty bizarre for his character in general, given his issues with his father.

HA! Captain Tightsuit pimpin' his ass off!

[SnakeCode]

This guy:

https://archive.is/MwWAw

https://archive.is/0ogNT

https://archive.is/efA1g

https://archive.is/3wfPY

https://archive.is/NSkFz

https://archive.is/8il1s

 

Unlikely to happen because of free speech or more specifically selective free speech, but you never know. 

 

It's also worrying that multiple BioWare devs are friendly with Sarah Butts/Nyberg on social media. A known and self admitted paedophile. I guess it's ok though because she's a part of the social justice crowd and trans.

[Gotholhorakh]

It's also worrying that multiple BioWare devs are friendly with Sarah Butts/Nyberg on social media. A known and self admitted paedophile. I guess it's ok though because she's a part of the social justice crowd and trans.

 

Holy moly! I googled that and am sorry I did. If there is substance to that, there needs to be some police involvement for the sake of the victims, without going into specifics - but let's come right out and say it - nobody from BioWare will have even remotely had any idea of that and I expect they would not endorse, befriend, champion or otherwise tolerate the abuse of children and animals, or those who would do it. They will have associated with someone because they thought they were an ok enough person for that level of association, not because they were allegedly a pervert of some kind.

I would lay many things at BioWare's door regarding games design, writing, customer relations, but not that.

 

 

..anyway, to get back on topic for a minute, I would love for them to open up on the dialogue options lots, one of the best things in ME is being able to explore the story, so let's have more of that - ie let's be in a bit less of a hurry to progress the game. (although I can almost hear the booing and hissing from the gallery as I type that suggestion )

[prosthetic soul]

Didn't they make Mass Effect Paragon Lost.... terrible 90s quality anime for something made in 2012

That's a contradiction.  90s anime is vastly superior to more contemporary anime. 

[prosthetic soul]

Be wary, as we do not have the full context of said messages. While concerning, if say taken from a discussion of possible traits of villains, said conversation takes a decided turn.

No amount of context can justify what he said.  That's absolutely preposterous. 

[Elhanan]

No amount of context can justify what he said.  That's absolutely preposterous.

And that is unwise. Taking things out of context is never a good idea, and easily alters intent and meaning. It could be simply examples used in a discussion of that very subject. Judging is easy; doing so while properly informed takes effort.

[aoibhealfae]

That's a contradiction.  90s anime is vastly superior to more contemporary anime. 

 

Not really, especially in the early 90s which still carry 80s styles. It was the mid-90s is when the good stuff started; Ghost in the Shell, Gundam Wing, Rurouni Kenshi, even Ghibli start producing things with earnest... but animation-wise, its still like watching everything in 10 fps and not all of them are good btw. 

[Iakus]

Jacob : Black dude dies first ("Sounds like a suicide mission, I volunteer") but I'm sure his propensity to cheating on FemShep may or may not factor in this

Kai Leng : Yellow Peril, Gratuitous Ninja, Idiot Ball ...gah I could go on... even Kasumi is a Space Ninja. 

Jacob never died in my games.

 

His cheating on FemShep is unfortunate, to say the least, though.

 

Kai Leng's badness has absolutely nothing to do with his ethnicity, but his being a very poorly implemented attempt at creating an "evil opposite" of Shepard.

 

Kasumi is a thief, not a ninja.  Thane is more of a ninja, given he sneaks around snapping necks and all.

[aoibhealfae]

Jacob never died in my games.

 

His cheating on FemShep is unfortunate, to say the least, though.

 

Kai Leng's badness has absolutely nothing to do with his ethnicity, but his being a very poorly implemented attempt at creating an "evil opposite" of Shepard.

 

Kasumi is a thief, not a ninja.  Thane is more of a ninja, given he sneaks around snapping necks and all.

 

Espionage, stealth, infiltration are some of the prized skills for a Shinobi.... which all within Kasumi's skill sets. Thane is more krav maga guy

[Iakus]

Espionage, stealth, infiltration are some of the prized skills for a Shinobi.... which all within Kasumi's skill sets. Thane is more krav maga guy

Still, she uses these skills to steal, and doesn't seem to like violence much.

 

 

She's more a Classy Cat Burglar type like Catwoman than anything else.

[Scofield]

I dont ever want to see a citadel type dlc or trespasser type dlc again, i honestly cannot stand "cheese" in my games, it makes me cringe n just shut the thing down

 

Only thing i liked in citadel was the arena, wouldn't mind that again

[Valdez_ua]

I dont ever want to see a citadel type dlc or trespasser type dlc again, i honestly cannot stand "cheese" in my games, it makes me cringe n just shut the thing down

 

Only thing i liked in citadel was the arena, wouldn't mind that again

I thought i was the only one who hated those dlcs. Especially trespasser. I was trying so hard not to puke during the last dialogue, especially after "I will save you from yourself" part.

[Elhanan]

I dont ever want to see a citadel type dlc or trespasser type dlc again, i honestly cannot stand "cheese" in my games, it makes me cringe n just shut the thing down
 
Only thing i liked in citadel was the arena, wouldn't mind that again

Pls keep moving; nothing to see here....

*Adores both DLC, and desires more pls*

[Mechler]

Still, she uses these skills to steal, and doesn't seem to like violence much.

 

 

She's more a Classy Cat Burglar type like Catwoman than anything else.

 

A Pacifist ninja is still a ninja. Who cares if she is a stereotype? She is awesome.

Can I hope for another chherful cultured, tech savy asian girl in Ryder's team?

 

 

[Ahglock]

I dont ever want to see a citadel type dlc or trespasser type dlc again, i honestly cannot stand "cheese" in my games, it makes me cringe n just shut the thing down

Only thing i liked in citadel was the arena, wouldn't mind that again

I mostly agree. In theory I like the concept of the being attacked while your just out for a meal with friends. But it went to crap quick with all the breaking the 4th wall crap, the bad in jokes etc. honestly bioware hasn't convinced me they can pull off humor in general outside almost unintentional or a few other points. They always give a trying to hard vibe. The occasional joke yeah they pull it off. Once the entire scene is supposed to be funny it goes bad.

[Vortex13]

I dont ever want to see a citadel type dlc or trespasser type dlc again, i honestly cannot stand "cheese" in my games, it makes me cringe n just shut the thing down

 

Only thing i liked in citadel was the arena, wouldn't mind that again

 

 

Same here. 

 

I could only manage one play through of Citadel, and while the light hearted nature of the DLC was amusing during the opening scene it quickly became aggravating. The forced humor, all the meta jokes, and drastic caricaturization of all the squad mates just took me out of the game. I like comedic elements, but I prefer that they come naturally and fit with the theme of the narrative; things like the shooting competition with Garus, or the banter in between missions; but the Citadel was way too campy for my tastes.