84 réponses à ce sujet

[Ahriman]

A villain is necessary to provide focus, and an obstacle. 

A hero is fine too. *performs extermination of natives playfully*

[Satele-Shan87]

It wouldn't be a very interesting game

[WittyUsername]

I don't mind an antagonist that's morally ambiguous. But I want the antagonist to be standing in the way of the protagonist's goal.

[BraveVesperia]

I'm guessing this is like the "royal we", since I'd be very happy with a villain. Not of the 'mwah ha ha I'll end the world' variety, but someone whose goals or methods clash with ours.

[Gago]

There always will be a villain, the question is whether his/her ambitions are to rule the world or to rob old ladies. For MEA, imo the villain should not to be pure evil but simply his goals to collide with ours. Or something like this.

[The Ascendant]

Who would be an antagonist for the new PC? The Lovecraftian robot monsters from the original trilogy were very well done, not to mention the human supremacists showing the dark side of mankind. What could top those?

[Puddi III]

A hero is fine too. *performs extermination of natives playfully*

Is this the "what can BioWare learn from Undertale" thread?

[Stakrin]

Not sure about that, lots of stories are just partial or incomplete for example in history whenever you have a interesting person or character sometimes they end up dying tragically or whatever before you see the full swath of their experience, perhaps not against a big bad but an accidental alliance or something like that, and finally not necessarily even they would indicate their story is one of "good" and "bad."

In terms of the official "stories and narratives school of tale telling" there is most decidedly an emphasis on the love story good/bad, but the only stories aren't those that are put into books and such.

I guess I should have specified competed and published books, games, movies, and tv.

And I don't necessarily mean technical bad guy, or love story. Just that it will gravitate towards it. If the story ended with the best friend accidentally killing the main character (not in some heroic sacrifice) then everything the best friend has done would have been leading up to killing the main character, and that friend would become the main antagonist of the show, or whoever confused the friend if it was a person.

If no two people fell in love, the love plot would become the closest friends, or a tragic unreciprocated plot.

[Killdren88]

We? Sorry, didn't realize I gave you permission to speak for me. What would the conflict be then? We watch the protag go through Existentialism? Being so far from the rest of the Galaxy it becomes Lord of the flies, but in space? Or perhaps you are looking for something like The heart of Darkness? You give Bioware too much credit if you think they can pull any of those off. I'd rather they stick with what they are "decent" at.

[felipejiraya]

You guys have some weird requests.

[Panda]

IMO all stories have a love story, a good guy, and a bad guy.

Even if there isn't a Harbinger or TIM or Kai Leng.
There will be somebody other than us. That person may be in our team but wants the glory. So they are now the villain in this story.

Even coming of age books have the love story between the character and the best friend, unreciprocated crush, or whatever it may be.
They have the villain of an idea or person they are against.

Every story will have a main character, villain, and love plot by the time it's been written.

 

Most stories have those, but not every story. Sometimes it's better not to have love plot, not speaking ME here, but more like movies and other things where you have no choice, you just have to look forced love plot middle of action movie where two people who hate each other get it on cause "all movies much have love plot". Also sometimes main character is the villain, sometimes villain isn't really villain. It's better to think of sth fresh than necessarily follow cliches.

 

And before someone says that ME doesn't need love plots, it does need them cause they are big part of interaction between your character and other main characters ^^

[Aimi]

IMO all stories have a love story, a good guy, and a bad guy.

who is the good guy in the Iliad? who is the bad guy? where is the love story?

[Remix-General Aetius]

There will always be a villain, no matter what form they're in. Could be another TIM or a hostile alien species indigenous to the planet the humans are trying to claim - war between the species........we could both be villains depending on whoever's point of view.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

who is the good guy in the Iliad? who is the bad guy? where is the love story?

Paris and Helen?

[Statichands]

I don't want another good character "fights against the tides of darkness and if she/he fails all is doomed"

 

 

I fixed that for you. People have different opinions. 

[Sartoz]

                                                                                                   <<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>

 

There won't be "one evil villain" in the story.

 

This is about a colony ship(s) arriving in the "New World" (ie: Helius Cluster). It will be about their struggles for survival where the elements, environments the search for resources to grow and expand and to fight the locals... in this case, the Khet being their primary threat. 

 

I wonder what ME:A's endgame will be.

1. Reach a certain tech level?

2. Reach a certain colony expansion level?

3. Survive the Khet threat for dominance?

4. Establish a certain number of allies?

5. A combo of the above?

[Aimi]

Paris and Helen?

In the Iliad?

Paris is barely ever seen with Helen in the poem, and there's no plot-development of their relationship. Besides, as far as the structure of the poem goes, Paris is at best a background character, and Helen almost doesn't show up at all.

Most people, when they try to shoe-horn a love story into the Iliad, try using Achilles and Patroklos' relationship. It's still not a great fit. Achilles is almost invisible for half the story, and Patroklos really only shows up to put on Achilles' armor, lead the Achaians, and get killed. The only thing we see of the relationship is what it leaves behind: a petulant man-child killer who goes apes**t on gods and men for days after he loses a prized possession. Much of the plot of the Iliad is Achilles throwing b***h fits after losing something; in the beginning, he loses Briseis and retreats to his tent to sulk while his comrades are slaughtered, then he loses Patroklos and kills everything within reach until his rage is slaked.

At least there is plot there - a bit of it, anyway - and there is a relationship, although it's not entirely clear if it involves love. You could make an argument for it.

But then you'd have to identify a villain and a hero.

[KaiserShep]

I still want someone like the Operative.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

In the Iliad?

Paris is barely ever seen with Helen in the poem, and there's no plot-development of their relationship. Besides, as far as the structure of the poem goes, Paris is at best a background character, and Helen almost doesn't show up at all.

Most people, when they try to shoe-horn a love story into the Iliad, try using Achilles and Patroklos' relationship. It's still not a great fit. Achilles is almost invisible for half the story, and Patroklos really only shows up to put on Achilles' armor, lead the Achaians, and get killed. The only thing we see of the relationship is what it leaves behind: a petulant man-child killer who goes apes**t on gods and men for days after he loses a prized possession. Much of the plot of the Iliad is Achilles throwing b***h fits after losing something; in the beginning, he loses Briseis and retreats to his tent to sulk while his comrades are slaughtered, then he loses Patroklos and kills everything within reach until his rage is slaked.

At least there is plot there - a bit of it, anyway - and there is a relationship, although it's not entirely clear if it involves love. You could make an argument for it.

But then you'd have to identify a villain and a hero.

The romances in the Iliad are still pretty important, especially the one the created the whole story to begin with. Love was invented by French troubadour poets in the 14th century, anyway, so you have to take what you can get in the old epics.

Anyway, the implications of the love affair and what people were willing to sacrifice as a result make them pretty good love stories, as far as I'm concerned.

[Abraham_uk]

7 Basic Plots

 

1. Overcoming The Monster
2. Rags to Riches
3. The Quest
4. Voyage and Return
5. Comedy
6. Tragedy
7. Rebirth

 

https://en.wikipedia...ven_Basic_Plots

 

 

That's why every writer ends up rehashing the same stories.

It's not so much the plot, it's the execution of the plot that matters.

 

The characters and their motivations.

The environment.

The obstacles

How characters overcome them

How characters change (or don't change)

etc.

[Ahglock]

As much as I enjoy shooting people just because, I am going to say in a game about shooting people you need to either be the villain or have one.

[Linkenski]

You need a bad guy, but I hope they don't have to make him an archetype like Saren, TIM, Corypheus etc. Even CDPR fell into that trap with Witcher 3's villain. The best part is that you get a cool final bossfight in most cases but for the narrative it becomes uninteresting.

 

...with the exception that Saren was slightly compelling in the end.

 

I just hope we get a bad guy who has a comprehensible motivation and has a memorable rivalry and intereactions to the protagonist. If Dombrow wrote that it would probably be good like Clone Shep but both Mac and Schlerf have already proven they can't write interesting villains at least once. Seriously, the Didact who's the bad guy of Halo 4 was completely uninteresting, and he was basically just like Harbinger, spouting threatening nonsense at the protagonist without meaning. Fun fact: The Didact's actor was the same as Harbinger's.

[O'Voutie O'Rooney]

It is possible for a story not to have a villain, but it is, I think, impossible for a story to proceed without an antagonist of some kind. It could be nature, it could be some inner conflict of the protagonist, etc. I am not sure how a non-rational antagonist could work in Mass Effect.

[Deebo305]

There always will be a villain, the question is whether his/her ambitions are to rule the world or to rob old ladies. For MEA, imo the villain should not to be pure evil but simply his goals to collide with ours. Or something like this.

^This seem about right

But I do agree that Andromeda may not have a standard villain, I predict more so inner conflict among the Tempest crew like the MC not agreeing with leadership or an outspoken dangerous crewman trying to take control of the expedition rather than fall in line

That would be better than the typical shadowy figure, for this game in particular anyway

[Aimi]

The romances in the Iliad are still pretty important, especially the one the created the whole story to begin with. Love was invented by French troubadour poets in the 14th century, anyway, so you have to take what you can get in the old epics.

Anyway, the implications of the love affair and what people were willing to sacrifice as a result make them pretty good love stories, as far as I'm concerned.

Again, that's confusing the storytelling idea of the Trojan War with the actual text of the epic poem Iliad.

And it's rather missing the point of the original post, which was to point out that hero, villain, and love story are not immutable aspects of every great story, much less every story of any quality. They are not even aspects of the first great Western story. If the Iliad could get away without having a clearly defined villain, romance, or hero, then it seems silly to me to automatically assume that, if ME:A (or any other story) doesn't have those, then it will be bad.