60 réponses à ce sujet

[Addictress]

Let's be real, DA has never been an historically accurate rpg and it was never meant to be. I understand the slippery slope concern and would usually be angry about it too, and I also advise against introducing anymore anachronistic tech, but like with Game of Thrones, the DA world combines many different fantasy elements at will. More Game of Thrones than LotR.

Just look at the ridiculous armor starting with Origins. The women have huge gaps in armor. The warriors like Loghain have frivolously huge shoulder plates with beautiful but unnecessary decor (medieval armor could be beautiful as well but from what I saw they'd be mostly ceremonial pieces and not for actual combat). Darkspawn. Magisters. Gods. Pretending this is some straight D&D, Tolkeinesque universe is ignoring the intended style from the beginning.

[Statare]

The Sha Brytol barely count as sentient beings, though.

 

Yeah, Valta's codex things that end up in your codex after the main quest of Descent kind of imply that the Sha Brytol are mindless/violent after doing what they do with Lyrium and their armor, and that they're protective of their home but their home is not necessarily interested in them.

 

Edit: as per topic, I really enjoyed the Descent overall. It made me wish there had been more quest-based experiences where things where discovered/experts explained things to you like the Tevinter ruin with the laser in Jaws of Hakkon and the Descent with Valta instead of constantly reading notes and things and not really relating with the environment, as was the case in the vanilla game. Part of the joy of exploration in video games is the environment/your path through an environment establishing a narrative, but in DAI that was 99% done through text, which is impersonal. 

[Melbella]

The Sha Brytol barely count as sentient beings, though.

 

 

I know Valta says they are dwarves, but the noises they make sound more insectoid than humanoid (er, dwarfoid?).

[vbibbi]

Let's be real, DA has never been an historically accurate rpg and it was never meant to be. I understand the slippery slope concern and would usually be angry about it too, and I also advise against introducing anymore anachronistic tech, but like with Game of Thrones, the DA world combines many different fantasy elements at will. More Game of Thrones than LotR.

Just look at the ridiculous armor starting with Origins. The women have huge gaps in armor. The warriors like Loghain have frivolously huge shoulder plates with beautiful but unnecessary decor (medieval armor could be beautiful as well but from what I saw they'd be mostly ceremonial pieces and not for actual combat). Darkspawn. Magisters. Gods. Pretending this is some straight D&D, Tolkeinesque universe is ignoring the intended style from the beginning.

Loghain must have been born in the '80's with those shoulder pads. The 8:80's

 

Yeah, Valta's codex things that end up in your codex after the main quest of Descent kind of imply that the Sha Brytol are mindless/violent after doing what they do with Lyrium and their armor, and that they're protective of their home but their home is not necessarily interested in them.

 

Edit: as per topic, I really enjoyed the Descent overall. It made me wish there had been more quest-based experiences where things where discovered/experts explained things to you like the Tevinter ruin with the laser in Jaws of Hakkon and the Descent with Valta instead of constantly reading notes and things and not really relating with the environment, as was the case in the vanilla game. Part of the joy of exploration in video games is the environment/your path through an environment establishing a narrative, but in DAI that was 99% done through text, which is impersonal. 

I know I'm just nitpicking and sounding like a kneejerk crybaby, but we learn about the Sha Brytol being mindless after we kill them all. It's more like a hand-wave for killing what could have been sentient beings defending their homes from us. "Phew! All of those dwarves we killed turned out to be crazy anyway and the Titan didn't even want them there. Guess I can skip all of those Hail Marys!"

 

I do agree with your point about the lore reveals. I was thinking more on this, because I'm way too invested in a fictional game setting, and another one of my gripes about the DLC was that much of the lore in it doesn't connect as strongly with dwarf culture we know as the elven lore reveals did with the Dalish and ancient history. The game did a good job of turning our expectations upside down for Thedas' ancient history and revealed some history shaking information about Arlathan's fall and the nature of the Veil. Descent gave us...lizard people...still not understood Titans...Shaperate histories were erased, but we don't know why or what was erased...dwarves were connected to Titans and had their own form of magic?

 

It was introducing too many new elements without sufficiently explaining any of them. We didn't do the investigating, Valta spoon fed it to us. And the ending really didn't make sense to me. So...the Breach woke up a Titan (which is hollow and has Sha Brytol living in it even though it doesn't want them to) and it's causing earthquakes. So the solution is to attack and kill/main it's guardian, which causes the quakes to stop. Eh? Why would eliminating its defenses cause it to stop waking up? Or was Valta's new magic at work in calming it? It just felt like such a sloppy ending that is just sequel bait.

[Medhia_Nox]

Three characters that MUST go to join the Titans.... 

 

Dagna, Sandal and Shale. 

[Addictress]

....the ending was a bit disappointing. Yeah.

[Cobra's_back]

I really like the DLC and the main game. I'm sure that is because I really like DA lore. I'm hoping to see Renn and Valta again. In the end she took his body. The Titan story sounds really interesting to me.

[Addictress]

I really like the DLC and the main game. I'm sure that is because I really like DA lore. I'm hoping to see Renn and Valta again. In the end she took his body. The Titan story sounds really interesting to me.

Well hell yes it opened a whole can of exciting worms.

The way the DLC ended was like "OK so this re-writes dwarven history and introduces a force that rivals the old gods and Mythal and etc lolbye"

[Cobra's_back]

Well hell yes it opened a whole can of exciting worms.

The way the DLC ended was like "OK so this re-writes dwarven history and introduces a force that rivals the old gods and Mythal and etc lolbye"

New writer?

 

Some of it seems new but some may have been planned all along. Remember the statue:

 

DAO Mage story Eleni Zinovia “Weep not for me, child. Stone they made me and stone I am, eternal and unfeeling. And I shall endure 'til the Makers return to light their fires again.”

 

Was she talking about the makers Titans?

 

DAO Elf story: The Eluvian was introduced and so were the elven gods.

 

DAO Wynne: She was kept alive by the spirit of faith and not an abomination.

 

There may have been some rewrite but it seems to fit well.

[Cobra's_back]

@ vbibbi "Why would eliminating its defenses cause it to stop waking up? Or was Valta's new magic at work in calming it? It just felt like such a sloppy ending that is just sequel bait."

 

I think that is the answer. It calmed down when it sensed its child.

[Cobra's_back]

The Descent Valta journal page:

 

Per Valta : "The Guardian. It lashed out, and I fell into a warm light's embrace.

 

"I thought I was returning to the Stone. Perhaps I did.

 

The light receded as I awoke in paradise. The Guardian lay shattered; the Inquisitor stood triumphant. A victory, but I could not take any joy in it. The Guardian had come to defend the Titan—protect the Stone from being weakened. It tried to kill the Inquisitor, but to me, it offered only gifts.

 

I hope to use them well—and someday understand why I was chosen to receive them."

 

"The Sha-Brytol saw the Titan favor me with the gift of shaping stone. I am more powerful than they will ever be. They fear me. They love me. They understand I am a part of the Titan they defend, but they don't realize it doesn't need their protection. It never has. Whoever these dwarves once were, whatever motives drove them to remain here, now they are only lost.

 

Only one chamber provided anything of interest to me. A domed, circular courtyard held a pool of the Titan's blood at its center. Empty suits of armor sat neatly in a circle around the pool. Is this where Sha-Brytol come to be entombed in their metal skins? What smith makes this armor, and where does it come from? My lost kin are hiding something. They have a thaig somewhere.

 

I have no interest in finding that citadel of the Sha-Brytol, but another might."

 

So Valta was picked.

[vbibbi]

Thanks, that does seem the answer to ending the quakes.

[CardButton]

I was very meh, with "The Descent".  

 

While I absolutely adored the game-play (the waves of Darkspawn were both difficult and fun), the two leads who we were following through this adventure felt very hollow.  Valta and Renn both seemed flat as characters go.  Renn is the stereotypical bad-ass, with a few good one liners ... but man I did not feel a thing when he croaked.  Valta is the academic archetype, but that's all she is.  I didn't notice much of a change in her character at all after she had become influenced by the Titan (if anything she seemed more emotional than she was before).  Also, I do agree with vbibbi on this one.  While we do find out that yes the Sha-Brytol are essentially extensions of the Titan (with very little free will of their own), we don't learn that until way later in the game.  I felt like the bad-guy, attacking people who are trying to defend their homes, or at bare minimum, just trying to just be left alone.

 

Combine this with Graphics in the Descent being very strange (with the scenery being breathtaking, but the character textures being downright awful at some points) and the insufferable Sha-Brytol enemies that were just massive damage sponges and immune to every status condition known to man (boy was I ever punished for playing a AOE Rift Mage) it all felt very unpolished.  Then of course there is the biggest two issues, the extreme lack of party banter and that unbelievably terrible final boss.  The Companions are barely even there, saying maybe two short lines of dialogue the entire expansion, and the Guardian does nothing but insta-kill moves and knocking you off cliffs, that's it (Who at Bioware thought this was a good idea?!).  It's not challenging, it's cheap!

 

The Descent is by no means the worst DLC I've played (and does bring in some very interesting concepts with the Titans), it is far from the best IMO. 

[Addictress]

New writer?

Some of it seems new but some may have been planned all along. Remember the statue:

DAO Mage story Eleni Zinovia “Weep not for me, child. Stone they made me and stone I am, eternal and unfeeling. And I shall endure 'til the Makers return to light their fires again.”

Was she talking about the makers Titans?

DAO Elf story: The Eluvian was introduced and so were the elven gods.

DAO Wynne: She was kept alive by the spirit of faith and not an abomination.

There may have been some rewrite but it seems to fit well.

It definitely fits but it goes from hints to full blown revelation. It was just jarring that's all.

[thats1evildude]

The Sha-Brytol are not extensions of the Titan. They're more like parasites: they feed on blood from the Titan and zealously guard it from intruders. They might think the Titan needs protecting, but it doesn't.

I was saddened by Renn's death. He was a likeable NPC with an air of tragedy about him.

[Addictress]

The Sha-Brytol are not extensions of the Titan. They're more like parasites: they feed on blood from the Titan and zealously guard it from intruders. They might think the Titan needs protecting, but it doesn't.

I was saddened by Renn's death. He was a likeable NPC with an air of tragedy about him.

me too.

It is interesting to compare how the dwarves react when they take lyrium, compared to human template

Also, the DLC never explained why the sha-brytol's armor was fused with their bodies. Or why they were pure.

[Absafraginlootly]

I thoroughly enjoyed Descent and hope that one day, after the more immediate ancient elves plotline is resolved, we get a Dwarf/Deeproads centered game.

[Madfox11]

I loved the scenery (including a bit of puzzling on where the gears might be and how to get there) and liked the added lore which seems to be tied to the red lirium that is both corrupted lirium and predates the first Blight (at least according to DA2). I disliked the lack of banter, lack of conversation and the repetitiveness of the the fights even if they were the more challenging of the game. The ending definitely left a lot to be desired and I agree with those stating they felt a bit bad about invading the dwarves homes.

[Cobra's_back]

The Sha-Brytol are not extensions of the Titan. They're more like parasites: they feed on blood from the Titan and zealously guard it from intruders. They might think the Titan needs protecting, but it doesn't.

I was saddened by Renn's death. He was a likeable NPC with an air of tragedy about him.

He may come back. One of the table missions called Cry in the Dark:

 

"A search of the Titan caverns all the way to Shaper Valta's last known location turned up nothing but a few small groups of Sha-Brytol, who were quickly dispatched. Valta seems to have disappeared deeper inside the Titan, but she was not the only one who has vanished. The grave site of Lieutenant Renn was recently disturbed, and his remains are missing. It is not known who took his body or why. There have been no more cries from the Titan caverns.

Inquisition scouts reported one final discovery: The tunnel to the Wellspring no longer exists. Attempts to delve into the blank rock face result only in broken tools and little trace on the stone itself. Somewhat nervously––––but emphatically––––the engineers recommend leaving it be."

 

The Titan may have been able to bring him back. If you kill Leliana in DAO she comes back. It may have been the Lyrium that brings her back. 

 

The Descent plays like a mystery. 

[Cobra's_back]

I thoroughly enjoyed Descent and hope that one day, after the more immediate ancient elves plotline is resolved, we get a Dwarf/Deeproads centered game.

I think both are connected, because the elves attacked the Titans for their blood. The elves released something horrible when they did. Could be the next game we need to stop Solas from getting an Ancient orb hidden in Tevinter, and we need to find out what was released that was so horrible.

[vbibbi]

I think both are connected, because the elves attacked the Titans for their blood. The elves released something horrible when they did. Could be the next game we need to stop Solas from getting an Ancient orb hidden in Tevinter, and we need to find out what was released that was so horrible.

Plus the statues of Mythal in the Deep Roads in Trespasser.

 

I would rather resolve ancient history mysteries comprehensively rather than selectively, and focus on elves in one game/DLC, dwarves in another, ancient Tevinter and possible origins of Qunari in a separate one. By going about things piecemeal, it's providing an imbalanced view of the relative importance of the races and nations.

[Cobra's_back]

Plus the statues of Mythal in the Deep Roads in Trespasser.

 

I would rather resolve ancient history mysteries comprehensively rather than selectively, and focus on elves in one game/DLC, dwarves in another, ancient Tevinter and possible origins of Qunari in a separate one. By going about things piecemeal, it's providing an imbalanced view of the relative importance of the races and nations.

I could be wrong but I think they are all connected. Just maybe the Elves released the blight accidentally and caused the red lyrium. Dwarves, Elves, Titans are connected that much we know for sure through Trespassers. It is also possible that Old god, Tevinter, Elves and Dwarves are connected through Flemeth's daughters and the Tomb of Fairel story where the Paragon left because of a war 1000s of years ago but clearly was afraid of the dragons and knew about them. A journal in Hissing Waste has all the information on it. Dwarves see the stone as their protection. They were fearful of the surface because of dragons. He forge weapons with dragon runes on them. His history was not recorded correctly. They stated he died in the deep roads but didn't. Someone went to great length to change the Dwarven history. They removed mention of the Titans and the great war that sent Fairel to the surface.

[Cobra's_back]

I loved the scenery (including a bit of puzzling on where the gears might be and how to get there) and liked the added lore which seems to be tied to the red lirium that is both corrupted lirium and predates the first Blight (at least according to DA2). I disliked the lack of banter, lack of conversation and the repetitiveness of the the fights even if they were the more challenging of the game. The ending definitely left a lot to be desired and I agree with those stating they felt a bit bad about invading the dwarves homes.

I'm thinking the lack of banter was due to the fact that they wanted us to get to know Renn and Valta. I remember Renn telling stories and there was a strong relationship between Renn and Valta. We needed to know this so that we understood she went back for Renn in the end, and if she could bring him back with the Titan's help she would.

[vbibbi]

I could be wrong but I think they are all connected. Just maybe the Elves released the blight accidentally and caused the red lyrium. Dwarves, Elves, Titans are connected that much we know for sure through Trespassers. It is also possible that Old god, Tevinter, Elves and Dwarves are connected through Flemeth's daughters and the Tomb of Fairel story where the Paragon left because of a war 1000s of years ago but clearly was afraid of the dragons and knew about them. A journal in Hissing Waste has all the information on it. Dwarves see the stone as their protection. They were fearful of the surface because of dragons. He forge weapons with dragon runes on them. His history was not recorded correctly. They stated he died in the deep roads but didn't. Someone went to great length to change the Dwarven history. They removed mention of the Titans and the great war that sent Fairel to the surface.

Wow I never even thought to connect the Hissing Wastes to Descent. Thanks for pointing that out. I do agree that all of these histories are connected (Andruil hunting the Titans) so that's why I want all contemporary ancient histories revealed together. I liked Temple of Mythal and the little we learn from Descent, so I want more of both in the future, plus Qunari origins.

I will say that it's neat that there's an overarching picture of the lore planned by Bio and it takes some serious study to make comprehensive sense of all of the information we now have. Kudos to building up the life in such an organic way that we're not just handed the information easily, we have to piece it together like historians. I'm really glad for people on the forums doing the hard work for me!

[Greetsme]

At last I am won over enough by this game that I am thinking of buying more DLC.  I already have trespasser, but after reading this post am tempted to purchase Decent as well.  It is a shame that it seems to be overprice for the content given though.