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Anyone excited to see what Bioware and ME:A can learn from Fallout 4?


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#251
Zekka

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Doesn't the power armor mechanic break lore? Power Armor is supposed to last for centuries in it's own power. The lore mentions that the early versions (T-45d) burned through energy cells quickly, but the newest version (T-51b) has it's own internal power system that can last centuries or even indefinitely. 

 

Also, I would like a first person perspective in the next Mass Effect game and please allow us to holster our weapon again.



#252
DebatableBubble

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Doesn't the power armor mechanic break lore? Power Armor is supposed to last for centuries in it's own power. The lore mentions that the early versions (T-45d) burned through energy cells quickly, but the newest version (T-51b) has it's own internal power system that can last centuries or even indefinitely. 

 

Also, I would like a first person perspective in the next Mass Effect game and please allow us to holster our weapon again.

 

The power armor in the game isn't the T-51. I'm pretty sure it's the T-45.



#253
Battlebloodmage

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Doesn't the power armor mechanic break lore? Power Armor is supposed to last for centuries in it's own power. The lore mentions that the early versions (T-45d) burned through energy cells quickly, but the newest version (T-51b) has it's own internal power system that can last centuries or even indefinitely. 

 

Also, I would like a first person perspective in the next Mass Effect game and please allow us to holster our weapon again.

I'm against first person, maybe made it based on third person, not third person based on first person. I want to puke after several hours of Fallout 4 due to motion sickness. I haven't seen a game that handle both Third Person and First Person well.



#254
Sidney

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After a few more hours a few more observations.

The companion AI is terrible. Useless in combat and worse when they just get in your way and block paths.
VATS no longer stops time it just slows it down time. Given the encounter design this really changes the game.
Combat for reasons I can't quite explain feels clunkier in FO4 than in 3 or NV.
The open world is shrinking, a town like Concord is 90% boarded up buildings.
The settlement interaction and controls are friggin' terrible and non-intuitive.
The weight based inventory is insanely cumbersome. The junk collection simulation magnifies this problem but no one should ever use weight again. Given that the inventory system is completely irrational in the amount of crap you can carry don't tell me it is immersive or realistic.
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#255
Giantdeathrobot

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Interacting with garbage is not an RPG element. I can appreciate we have different tastes and I do get your POV; it's just that don't see how most items being intractable is an RPG feature. Most old school RPGs made it decidedly impossible to interact with most things, and you can't interact with things here in a way that makes sense.

 

Well, something can be said for a good crafting system. KOTOR 2 and Inquisition were games that were IMO enhanced by their crafting. And FO4's crafting is pretty robust, most weapons have a good array of mods and Power Armor in particular can get some nifty upgrades such as night vision visors and jetpacks. 

 

But yeah, the bad part is how much junk you need to amass. I don't believe that immersion is enhanced by being able to pick up a toothbrush. I'd rather have an Inquisition-esque system where you have dedicated crafting materials, with the most powerful ones found on higher level enemies.



#256
Sidney

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I'm against first person, maybe made it based on third person, not third person based on first person. I want to puke after several hours of Fallout 4 due to motion sickness. I haven't seen a game that handle both Third Person and First Person well.


I don't know why Fo4 does this but it did make me motion sick when I first started playing in a way that other FPS games simply don't. I got over it after a bit but it definitely made me ill.
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#257
Zekka

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The power armor in the game isn't the T-51. I'm pretty sure it's the T-45.

There are multiple versions of Power Armor in Fallout 4. There's T-45, T-51, T60, X01.

 

 

I'm against first person, maybe made it based on third person, not third person based on first person. I want to puke after several hours of Fallout 4 due to motion sickness. I haven't seen a game that handle both Third Person and First Person well.

Well that's the beauty of allowing the player to switch perspective like Fallout, TES, GTA V, & Jedi Knight.


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#258
Battlebloodmage

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There are multiple versions of Power Armor in Fallout 4. There's T-45, T-51, T60, X01.

 

 

Well that's the beauty of allowing the player to switch perspective like Fallout, TES, GTA V, & Jedi Knight.

I almost puke during Fallout 4, even in third person, they made the game with First Person in mind, and the camera while playing in Third person is not optimize very well. I have yet to see game to optimize both very well. Either first person or third person will suffer as a result since they may have to make certain compromises like speed, pick up motion, etc.


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#259
DebatableBubble

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There are multiple versions of Power Armor in Fallout 4. There's T-45, T-51, T60, X01.

 

Oops. My mistake.

 

Edit: The T-45 is the one the game gives you at the very beginning. I assume they just had the other suits run out of juice as well for gameplay balance.



#260
Zekka

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I almost puke during Fallout 4, even in third person, they made the game with First Person in mind, and the camera while playing in Third person is not optimize very well. I have yet to see game to optimize both very well. Either first person or third person will suffer as a result since they may have to make certain compromises like speed, pick up motion, etc.

A talented developer should be able to bypass this. I am hearing that the new battlefront has both first and third person and I hear that both work very well. Both DICE & Bioware are owned by EA afterall so it shouldn't be a problem for Bio to ask for expertise.



#261
Giantdeathrobot

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The power armor in the game isn't the T-51. I'm pretty sure it's the T-45.

 

There are all the other versions of Power Armor. T-51b, APA from FO2, and the suddenly commonplace T-60 at least. Perhaps they have reduced fuel consumption, but yeah it still breaks lore.

 

Also, if you find a location named Cabot House, don't enter it if you value the integrity of the Fallout setting at all. What is in it is literally dumber than FO3's Mothership Zeta DLC. I wish I could say I was surprised that Bethesda added something this stupid, but at this point I'm not.



#262
Ahglock

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Interacting with garbage is not an RPG element. I can appreciate we have different tastes and I do get your POV; it's just that don't see how most items being intractable is an RPG feature. Most old school RPGs made it decidedly impossible to interact with most things, and you can't interact with things here in a way that makes sense.

I'm not a huge interact with every object person. I'd happily ditch it for a lot of other features. Graphics just isn't one of them. But I do know from the Bethesda forums there are large swaths of people who do like it. They like collecting tons of objects and playing homemaker setting out where every plate and fork will be in their homes.

While not my thing that is very much roleplaying. Role play is not just what happens in combat and big conversations. It's what you do in your day to day.

#263
008Zulu

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One thing I would very much like to see with the new Mass Effect, is that if they sell a physical copy of the game, they put the entire game on the disc. Not just a couple of gb (looking at you Fallout 4) and expect people to download the rest. People with very restrive internet access buy physical copies for the specific reason because we don't have good enough Internet access for digital downloads.



#264
VilhoDog13

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*ignore this blank space. there were clearly no quoting issues at all shush.*


There's obviously no appeal to you so why do you want people to try and justify their liking the game?


You missed the point of my post. It's not to get others to justify, it's to understand what makes it a good game. Is there some unknown factor that'll make it redeemable for me.

Example: Tales of Zestiria was released recently and there's a LOT of flack that game has gotten. I read comments and reviews repeatedly, watched videos, looked up dev comments. I wanted to know more about the game. I bought it, and I don't regret it.

If you took my post as something antagonistic (and based on your comment, you did), that wasn't intended. Personally, I thought I made that clear. I guess I did not.

#265
Danadenassis

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Personally have I not experienced many bugs in FO4 yet. Electricity and water disappearing from a settlement, but got that fixed through sleeping and not fast traveling (!!!), and one complete crash (teached me to save often).

 

Bioware does stories so much better, so better phasing and slightly less weird personality changes, but I really liked the initial background story of Fallout 4. However the crazy transformation from being lawyer educated (ex-military?), witnessing my son being kidnapped and my husband killed and then changing the world was bit sharp.

 

But I got all giggly after the robot used the name of my character! It actually made the sound of the name. Such a small thing, I guess, but such a lovely effort for realism. (The name is Jen, so it was probably easy to get right)

 

Fallout 4 is the most enjoyable Bethesda game I've played (70ish hours into it now and very hooked). I never enjoyed the gameplay of Skyrim/Oblivion, nor the story I guess, though did play Arena (+Daggerfall) quite a bit (wow it was buggy beyond anything I've ever played) and I think that is somewhat how I stopped enjoy the design (not because of the bugs alone, but how pointless it felt).

 

 

What I would have enjoyed to see in MEA would be something similar when it comes to settlements, though hopefully with slightly more convenience in actually putting things on the ground without some terrain conflicting/clipping, or at least better ways to create foundations for the buildings.

 

For being open-world did the events/exploration seem quite organic and natural.

 

Bioware's ME3 got far nicer textures, though I find the scenery is less varied in most ME locations.

 

Someone mentioned combat: I do not particularly enjoy the fighting in FO4. Weapons got poor accuracy, unless you snipe, and the view is often obscured by the weapons making it even harder to hit the many moving and flying things. So except for the one-button-to-mess-up-everything that was in ME3, do I not want the FO4 fighting very much. Also, I don't recommend the last rank of Nuclear Physicist perk as it harms friendlies when you use the alt key (like when alt-tab).



#266
In Exile

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Well, something can be said for a good crafting system. KOTOR 2 and Inquisition were games that were IMO enhanced by their crafting. And FO4's crafting is pretty robust, most weapons have a good array of mods and Power Armor in particular can get some nifty upgrades such as night vision visors and jetpacks.

But yeah, the bad part is how much junk you need to amass. I don't believe that immersion is enhanced by being able to pick up a toothbrush. I'd rather have an Inquisition-esque system where you have dedicated crafting materials, with the most powerful ones found on higher level enemies.


I do like crafting. I just dislike the implementation in FO4 and question the merits of "interaction" where the objects don't behave normally. So if I can interact with a toothbrush but not use it to brush my teeth, well, I wouldn't call it verisimilitude. It seems like "interactive" often just means getting to pick up stuff and throw it or loot it.

#267
Statichands

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VATS no longer stops time it just slows it down time. Given the encounter design this really changes the game.

 

I'm happy they changed the way VATS works, now players actually have to aim. 



#268
In Exile

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I'm happy they changed the way VATS works, now players actually have to aim.


Not really. You can still use VATS to autolock on a target and the slowdown is more than enough time to get a sense of the battlefield.

#269
pdusen

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Cry about it.


Oh, there's plenty of crying going around already.

#270
Dean_the_Young

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Thoughts on what Bioware can take away from FO4?

 

The value of trying to experiment and do old things in a new way. I applaud that sort of innovation- and Bethesda trying to improve its dialogue and inventory system is exactly the sort of effort I hope Bioware keeps applying.

 

 

What, specifically, to emulate? Not too much, actually. Hair in the character creator, I guess, but FO4 is more about what Bethesda is trying to learn and take away from Bioware. Character companions, dialogue improvements, and plot framing. Still, the world vs. narrative emphasis is strong, and not great for a Bioware plot model.

 

Avoiding things that don't work well in a Bioware game would be the Bioware lesson- which includes the inventory system of FO. Stay away, please. Meanwhile, Bethesda can stand more practice on its elements.

 

 

"Sarcastic"  :P

 

That probably sums up the best of the worst of the dailogue system- and the good example of how a voiced protagonist can be done wrong. It doesn't help that you can awkwardly walk into and out of conversations.

 

 

That said, while I miss the voiceless protagonist, I will admit it has charm in helping encourage an emotional conversation rather than the one-way exposition characters. Between FO3's 'Find the Father' narrative and FO4's 'Find the Son', protagonist investment is more credible in the second. And the early part of the game- the pre-war sequence of the married household- wouldn't work as well with a silent protagonist.

 

On the other hand, I miss the factional reputation system. I'm still trying to get a handle on the companion opinion systems, and while I can tell there are factions (and I assume some will be mutually exclusive), it's hard to track where I stand with them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The game is quite literally asking you to collect garbage. This feature is the essence of, IMO, what's wrong with crafting. I can appreciate that some people enjoy this time of game. But there had to be a way to balance between a feature like that and literally walking through town collecting and recycling garbage.

 

I feel it's an improvement on the Bethesda typical model for items.

 

Bethesda games have always been a trash collection game- scavenging whatever has value to bring back and sell for caps. Between limited inventory (weight) and limited caps with vendors, it's always been a balance of weight-value. Thing was, most junk in Bethesda games was simply that- total junk. And there was so much of it, picking it up clogged your inventory right away, and it almost never served a purpose. As a rule, I never picked up anything in Fallout 3/NV that wasn't 20 caps/lb.

 

Games like FNV and Skyrim tried to make up for this lack of value with their crafting systems. Then, even low-value trash items could become valuable and have use. Turning ore into ingots into armor. Or taking a hide and tanning it for higher value. Then there was a point for collecting those lower-value items- but the trick was, you had to know which ones you were looking for. By and large, they weren't interchangeable.

 

FO4 still has item-specific recepies, but the changes to the junk system gives all junk at least some utility value by virtue of breaking down into the resource components. There's no longer 'trash except for crafting' and 'utter trash'. And the system has been jiggered to help support it- the trash item category makes it easier to consolidate and unload all that trash, rather than having trash items interspaced with all your good items like they were in previous games. Once you got your settlement up and running, going to your settlement is the convenient place to unload your trash (one button) and then sell the valuable stuff.

 

 

 

But, above that, I feel the item system for is better for supporting a theme of the more recent games- of building a post-apocalyptic future and rebuilding civilization. Crafting is a great mechanic to support that theme, and the use of junk of the Old World into new construction is thematically appropriate. Previous fallout games were more limited in that- FO3's use of junk was for the sub-par rock-it launcher- but even Vegas had limits.

 

The settlement creation system is a great step forward in that overall Fallout theme. It needs a lot more- personnel management in a settlement, rotation of items for placement, inter-settlement interface- but it's a great step forward.

 


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#271
Statichands

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Does anyone else find it easy and quick to romance people in the Mass Effect games? I've been traveling with this woman in Fallout 4 for a while now and trust me, she's making me work for it. But it's nice, I actually feel like I'm building a relationship with her. I hope the romance in Andromeda will be more like this. 



#272
KaiserShep

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Does anyone else find it easy and quick to romance people in the Mass Effect games? I've been traveling with this woman in Fallout 4 for a while now and trust me, she's making me work for it. But it's nice, I actually feel like I'm building a relationship with her. I hope the romance in Andromeda will be more like this. 

 

It's so easy, it can happen by accident XD


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#273
LinksOcarina

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Doesn't the power armor mechanic break lore? Power Armor is supposed to last for centuries in it's own power. The lore mentions that the early versions (T-45d) burned through energy cells quickly, but the newest version (T-51b) has it's own internal power system that can last centuries or even indefinitely. 

 

Also, I would like a first person perspective in the next Mass Effect game and please allow us to holster our weapon again.

 

I talked to a friend about this.

 

It's a change in gameplay mechanics to make Power Armor much more unique overall. It's like Thermal clips basically, so it's one of those things that would be argumentative for a more fluid lore in-game. 



#274
Giantdeathrobot

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I do like crafting. I just dislike the implementation in FO4 and question the merits of "interaction" where the objects don't behave normally. So if I can interact with a toothbrush but not use it to brush my teeth, well, I wouldn't call it verisimilitude. It seems like "interactive" often just means getting to pick up stuff and throw it or loot it.

 

Basically yes.

 

It can also get a bit weird how I can make a high-tech mod for my laser rifle out of a toy car. Somehow. Or how my fresh out of the Vault PC knows how to modify all those post-apocalyptic guns and even Power Armor to some extent with no training at all. 


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#275
Quarian Master Race

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Oh, there's plenty of crying going around already.

mostly by Bethesda fanbois attempting to defend their atrocious garbage collection simulator from the what is the obvious and undeniable truth: they are playing a game in which you primarily perform an activity that is used as a punishment for prison inmates IRL.

In fact, being required to play a certain number of hours of FO4 should be introduced into judicial systems as capital punishment. The death penalty and life Imprisonment clearly aren't enough of a deterrent. The only roadblock is that it might exceed the standard for cruel and unusual in some states and municipalities. It's that bad.


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