1378 réponses à ce sujet

[pdusen]

I hope you aren't serious. I can't even name a Bethesda character let alone tell you anything about them. There is no Bethesda version of Minsc, Bastila, Mordin, Morrigan and so forth. They build ciphers that act as pack mules, really stupid pack mules. Their NPCs are even worse.

 

I'm actually finding myself growing quite attached to Piper, Cait and Nick Valentine. I'd probably get attached to others too if I spent much time with them. Cait even had a fully-blown loyalty quest.

 

Of course, if you're referring specifically to previous Bethesda games, I acknowledge your point; I'm hard-pressed to remember any notable companions.

[Thermopylae]

I am hoping that Bioware inspired mods come out to rectify this. This is why I will be waiting at least a year until the Game of the year edition. 

[Sidney]

I'm actually finding myself growing quite attached to Piper, Cait and Nick Valentine. I'd probably get attached to others too if I spent much time with them. Cait even had a fully-blown loyalty quest.
 
Of course, if you're referring specifically to previous Bethesda games, I acknowledge your point; I'm hard-pressed to remember any notable companions.

I want to like Piper -- I've accidentally maxed my relationship by picking locks speaking of a bad relationship system -- but the interaction is so thin I can't really. Nick is basically playing Bogart but, again, just not much interaction. I appreciate they respond to actions but picking locks and hacking computers doesn't seem like anything that should make people like me.

[RatThing]

I hope you aren't serious. I can't even name a Bethesda character let alone tell you anything about them. There is no Bethesda version of Minsc, Bastila, Mordin, Morrigan and so forth. They build ciphers that act as pack mules, really stupid pack mules. Their NPCs are even worse.

 

Bioware character only stand out if you expect some kind of emotional attachment to them, romance them and so forth. That is not the only thing that makes a character interesting though. In terms of depth and complexity the average Bioware character i know (only ME) isn't really special.

And there is humor for example. Biowares "funny" character are usually an epic fail if you ask me (Joker). Bethesda has lots of hilarious people (Harold, DJ Travis ....). 

[Shechinah]

Oh god, I'm at a certain quest in the faction chain and it is going to hurt so badly because I've gotten to know everyone and I even like them. It's the kind of emotional beatdown that I love and adore; I feel guilty, I feel horrible and I'm so happy that they are going to make me do this. If this is how it is happening then well-played, Bethesda, well-played. Good way to turn my completionist nature on me.  

[Shechinah]

I'm actually finding myself growing quite attached to Piper, Cait and Nick Valentine. I'd probably get attached to others too if I spent much time with them. Cait even had a fully-blown loyalty quest.

 

I've found that I've gotten pretty attached to the followers I've encountered and befriended so far. Nick Valentine is especially a favorite of mine because he is not only a wonderful snark buddy, it also feels like he genuinely developed a friendship with my character. I also really dug the detective cases you could do with him.  

 

I'm interested in Hancock's character so I'll be picking him up as a follower next to see what he is like for myself. I should probably get around to giving Preston some time in the limelight as well.  

 

Fallout 4 got a nice set of followers, in my opinion, in terms of enjoyable and memorable characters.  
 

[Shechinah]

Fun fact; most of the followers comment if you take them to Vault 111 to see your own personal tearjeker and a lot of their reactions are sad yet heartwarming.

[Shechinah]

...

 

• The main character can most certainly be non-heterosexual, in my opinion and according to personal observations, as my character had a one-sight stand with a woman and I do not recall a single instance in the flirt dialogue with her where my character brought up their spouse. The woman was the singer Magnolia from Goodneighbor if you are curious.

 

•    I do not know how much flirt dialogue differs depending on gender or if it differs at all but I'v recently completed a follower romance and I do not remember my character once bringing up that she used to be married. The one instance it was brought up was by the follower and it's mention was in regard to a personal crisis the follower was undergoing and was in no way related to their relationship.

 

• Here I am a bit at loss since you seem to claim that the character cannot be non-heterosexual and that they lied about the homosexual romances but you also seem to say that there is homosexual romances but that you do not consider them such because the dialogue makes nothing of the fact that the people involved is of the same gender. Perhaps I am misunderstanding this part of your post and if you could and would, could you clarify this for me? 

 

If you would and could, would you mind providing links to where Bethseda personally hyped up the homosexual aspect of Fallout 4 because otherwise I'm inclined to believe that it was a similar case to Dragon Age: Inquisition where it seemed Bioware was misblamed for the media making a big deal out of Dorian Pavus and using the same quote taken from the smallest part of a character interview with David Gaider.

[Ahglock]

I hope you aren't serious. I can't even name a Bethesda character let alone tell you anything about them. There is no Bethesda version of Minsc, Bastila, Mordin, Morrigan and so forth. They build ciphers that act as pack mules, really stupid pack mules. Their NPCs are even worse.

I am totally serous. They usually aren't followers as that's new for Bethesda but every faction has memorable characters, they always have. It's just a different delivery method, heck sometimes you only find background tidbits if you break into that characters room and read their diary. Not everyone should wear their backgrounds on their sleeves so you can get a info dump 2 seconds after saying hello with an additional dump of info after every story quest.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

That's all fair enough, I just don't agree with the assessment that he merely mirrors public opinion. Partly because I agree with many of his scores of games.

Then again, I know I'm far too forgiving of a game's flaws to make a good critic.

If he just mirrors public opinion, I think he would have given the DAI PC version a worse score than what he did based on the controls.

[Queen Skadi]

If he just mirrors public opinion, I think he would have given the DAI PC version a worse score than what he did based on the controls.

 

He did though, it was 9/10 on Consoles and 8/10 on PC due to the controls. Myth confirmed!

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

He did though, it was 9/10 on Consoles and 8/10 on PC due to the controls. Myth confirmed!

I said worse than what he did.

[Queen Skadi]

I said worse than what he did.

 

Oh he couldn't have rated it too low otherwise he would risk pissing off the Bioware fanbase.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

...

otherwise I'm inclined to believe that it was a similar case to Dragon Age: Inquisition where it seemed Bioware was misblamed for the media making a big deal out of Dorian Pavus and using the same quote taken from the smallest part of a character interview with David Gaider.</p>

Ťo be fair the devs did over hype Bull,Sera and Dorian almost to the exclusion of the other companions before release.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Oh he couldn't have rated it too low otherwise he would risk pissing off the Bioware fanbase.

Or EA. /tinfoilhat

[Shechinah]

Ťo be fair the devs did over hype Bull,Sera and Dorian almost to the exclusion of the other companions before release.

 

If would and could, would you mind pointing me towards links regarding this, please?
 

[In Exile]

I am totally serous. They usually aren't followers as that's new for Bethesda but every faction has memorable characters, they always have. It's just a different delivery method, heck sometimes you only find background tidbits if you break into that characters room and read their diary. Not everyone should wear their backgrounds on their sleeves so you can get a info dump 2 seconds after saying hello with an additional dump of info after every story quest.

But this diary mode of characterisation is exactly what DAI did and is criticised for doing by many.

[Master Warder Z_]

But this diary mode of characterisation is exactly what DAI did and is criticised for doing by many.

Yep

[agonis]

Nothing against diaries.

It was such a relief that nearly every villian left their diary lying around for the protagonist to find.

It would be irksome to put the pieces together by oneself.

 

...Wow, now even I don´t know if I´m being sarcastic or not....

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

If would and could, would you mind pointing me towards links regarding this, please?

Twitter accounts. The entire twitter thread up to release.

[Ahglock]

But this diary mode of characterisation is exactly what DAI did and is criticised for doing by many.

That doesn't make it worse just that some people don't like it. I don't feel like getting snarky about imagination, reading vs tv etc and I'll just go with people like different things. I just don't find bioware characters or stories to be any deeper or better, just more cinematic.

[Ahglock]

Nothing against diaries.
It was such a relief that nearly every villian left their diary lying around for the protagonist to find.
It would be irksome to put the pieces together by oneself.

...Wow, now even I don´t know if I´m being sarcastic or not....

I can't get past the gameplay of dragon age 2 on anymore so I don't know exactly how it was done there. But Bethesda frequently does deliver things through a variety of clues in different locations that you need to put together on your own. Sometimes even they will flat out tell one story with it being a lie where you only discover the truth if you do outside research, and sometimes you are forever left in the dark. They do the last for some moral quandaries like was the person you murdered really a villain or were you set up?

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

I'm actually finding myself growing quite attached to Piper, Cait and Nick Valentine. I'd probably get attached to others too if I spent much time with them. Cait even had a fully-blown loyalty quest.

Of course, if you're referring specifically to previous Bethesda games, I acknowledge your point; I'm hard-pressed to remember any notable companions.

I haven't played the game but from what I've seen they are done quite well this time compared to past titles. For instance the followers talk to eavh other which is cool. I don't mean banter. Piper tells valentine to be careful while following you around.

[LinksOcarina]

Bioware character only stand out if you expect some kind of emotional attachment to them, romance them and so forth. That is not the only thing that makes a character interesting though. In terms of depth and complexity the average Bioware character i know (only ME) isn't really special.

And there is humor for example. Biowares "funny" character are usually an epic fail if you ask me (Joker). Bethesda has lots of hilarious people (Harold, DJ Travis ....). 

 

I think that is missing the point...

 

I agree that not all characters written by BioWare are created equal, but I also believe that BioWare has the market cornered when it comes to making them both interesting and engaging, outside of romancing them.

 

We can name a lot of traits with characters in BioWare games; partially because some of them have several games to grow as characters, partially because of their dynamics and backstories. The wide range of ideals and beliefs, hooks and information they gave is both expository and with a purpose of deepening their characterization, and the voice actors now a days have excellent direction to give them actual life, even with a lighter script or a weaker characterization.

 

Yes, part of it is expecting an emotional attachment, but why do they keep giving us squad-mates and companions if they didn't expect you to attach to them in the first place? Willingly not attaching to them is a personal choice, but not a universal design philosophy; it's why they spend so much time with writing, banter, characterization and blocking with them now a days I bet it takes up 1/4 of a games budget just for companions at this point.

 

Bethesda gets credit for making good characters, Three Dog and Travis are good examples of that, but Fallout 4 is the first game where they had good companions, even though only like 4 of them shine, and the other 8 are a bit half-baked. Hell, one is a dog and it expresses more than your Mabari hound ever could. Got to love game-engines for that though...

 

I guess the point is, BioWare has set the standard after all these years, and companies are trying to catch up to that still. That should at least be undeniable. 

[Dean_the_Young]

But this diary mode of characterisation is exactly what DAI did and is criticised for doing by many.

 

It's definitely hit-or-miss. My guess is that the discoveery method of the diaries matters a great deal.

 

One of my favorite character plots in FNV was the Survivalist in Honest Hearts. He's the epitome of a diary mode of characterization- he's been dead for two hundred years, and the characterization you get of him is his journal entries... but also finding the evidence of his trials in the past. The bodies he left behind, the residual memories and myths of the Sorrows, the traps you have to overcome to reach his stuff.

 

And that's not counting his final resting place. Definitely made me tear up.

 

But that was because it was a quest of discovery- a reward for exploring and unveiling the content of the DLC. It also had numerous entries, and not just a small number of pick-me-ups like in the case of Corypheus's codexes in DAI. Such a method fits better in the Bethesda model of games, where exploration is the point, rather than DAI's narrative and conversation-driven approach.