1378 réponses à ce sujet

[Innocent Bystander]

I want to like Piper -- I've accidentally maxed my relationship by picking locks speaking of a bad relationship system -- but the interaction is so thin I can't really. Nick is basically playing Bogart but, again, just not much interaction. I appreciate they respond to actions but picking locks and hacking computers doesn't seem like anything that should make people like me.

Sneaking through town with Cait, when suddenly a Super Mutant. So I shot him twice in the head before realizing it was Strong. Wild 'Cait liked this.' appeared.

Crouching in the corner in Super Mutant infested building. Piper: 'Blue, where are your pants?' So I switched to TPS only to find I forgot to put Vault Suit on when changing CHA -> combat gear.

Things like these are enough for me. If only Dogmeat had 'I'm just lying here, in a shade, watching you with one eye, totally ignoring what you want and not moving at all' mode, then he'd be like real german shepard dog.

Also, was anyone else like 'WTF is femshep doing here?' when encountering Cait?

[Mad Cassidy]

 

• The main character can most certainly be non-heterosexual, in my opinion and according to personal observations, as my character had a one-sight stand with a woman and I do not recall a single instance in the flirt dialogue with her where my character brought up their spouse. The woman was the singer Magnolia from Goodneighbor if you are curious.

 

•    I do not know how much flirt dialogue differs depending on gender or if it differs at all but I'v recently completed a follower romance and I do not remember my character once bringing up that she used to be married. The one instance it was brought up was by the follower and it's mention was in regard to a personal crisis the follower was undergoing and was in no way related to their relationship.

 

• Here I am a bit at loss since you seem to claim that the character cannot be non-heterosexual and that they lied about the homosexual romances but you also seem to say that there is homosexual romances but that you do not consider them such because the dialogue makes nothing of the fact that the people involved is of the same gender. Perhaps I am misunderstanding this part of your post and if you could and would, could you clarify this for me? 

 

 

For me the main issue is that, in a game where you are supposedly allowed to have a great amount of control over your character, you are shoe-horned into a specific family role, with a specific mentality, that may be strikingly at odds with the kind of character you want to play.

 

You should not be forced to perform mental gymnastics in order to prove to yourself that your own character is a certain sexuality. It's frustrating because there was a press release that said you could romance either sex, a statement that implies you can demonstrate a multitude of sexualities, as you desire. However, in the intro, you have absolutely no choice but to be happily married to a partner of the opposite sex. Sure, you can roleplay a non-heterosexual character, but it's hella hard to roleplay someone who only likes members of the same sex without a lot of headcanon (which still requires your character to bow to possibly non-existent social pressures). And the worst part is that it's needlessly restrictive and alienating; player agency takes back seat to a character creation gimmick. And really, it's just a gimmick. There's nothing that would have prevented a same-sex couple with an adopted or biological child. Especially because of the way the story unfolds.

 

 

All that to say, the takeaway for BioWare is how not to set up character creation.

[Sidney]

That doesn't make it worse just that some people don't like it. I don't feel like getting snarky about imagination, reading vs tv etc and I'll just go with people like different things. I just don't find bioware characters or stories to be any deeper or better, just more cinematic.

The one page notes might be a nice touch if
1. The writing didn't suck
2. They tell and not show characters
3. The writing didn't suck -- worth saying twice

You better have an imagination because there isn't any substance there from the writers. Sadly this isn't a strength as you pretend it is.

[RatThing]

I think that is missing the point...

 

I agree that not all characters written by BioWare are created equal, but I also believe that BioWare has the market cornered when it comes to making them both interesting and engaging, outside of romancing them.

 

We can name a lot of traits with characters in BioWare games; partially because some of them have several games to grow as characters, partially because of their dynamics and backstories. The wide range of ideals and beliefs, hooks and information they gave is both expository and with a purpose of deepening their characterization, and the voice actors now a days have excellent direction to give them actual life, even with a lighter script or a weaker characterization.

 

Yes, part of it is expecting an emotional attachment, but why do they keep giving us squad-mates and companions if they didn't expect you to attach to them in the first place? Willingly not attaching to them is a personal choice, but not a universal design philosophy; it's why they spend so much time with writing, banter, characterization and blocking with them now a days I bet it takes up 1/4 of a games budget just for companions at this point.

 

Bethesda gets credit for making good characters, Three Dog and Travis are good examples of that, but Fallout 4 is the first game where they had good companions, even though only like 4 of them shine, and the other 8 are a bit half-baked. Hell, one is a dog and it expresses more than your Mabari hound ever could. Got to love game-engines for that though...

 

I guess the point is, BioWare has set the standard after all these years, and companies are trying to catch up to that still. That should at least be undeniable. 

 

No, the point is that Bethesda usually did not write character for personal attachment and backstories. They wrote them to make the world in the game feel alive, to tell you something about this world. And they were better at it than Bioware (not as good as Obsidian with F:NV though).

Funny how companions always come to people's mind when they think about character. In Bethesda games the memorable character are the ones you meet on your journey. People like Harold, Three Dog, Paarthunax, Ulfric Stormcloak etc. they are not any worse than what Bioware gave us IMO. The companions with personal stories is a new thing, and frankly I got bored by it pretty quickly. Travelling alone now.

What someone likes more depends on what someone expects from character, but one should not say that Bethesdas writing is worse in general. It depends on the aspect you're looking at. Like I said, when it comes to humor for example (which is also a part of character writing) Bioware doesn't even come close.    

[Vortex13]

The weapon crafting system in Fallout is pretty good, tough I would like to see a little more care taken to explain how the character is working in the modifications. My Fallout 4 character found an alien blaster ray gun, and he automatically knows how to modify the weapon to accept fusion cells, as well as being able to add in a brand new scope that matches the extraterrestrial technology in terms of appearance and material type; all with duck tape and aluminum cans. 

 

 

Another thing I would really like to see would be a feature similar to the power armor. Customizing your own regular armor's appearance and statistics is cool and all, but it doesn't quite match that feeling you get when you find that piece of an X-01 mech suit and then take it back to base repair it, and add it to your collection. When you do get to walk around in the power armor it feels so satisfying. You get to laugh at the puny attacks the wasteland can throw at you, and all the various upgrades to the suit bring a whole slew of gameplay styles to the table.  Something similar to this would be a welcome feature IMO.

[LinksOcarina]

No, the point is that Bethesda usually did not write character for personal attachment and backstories. They wrote them to make the world in the game feel alive, to tell you something about this world. And they were better at it than Bioware (not as good as Obsidian with F:NV though).

Funny how companions always come to people's mind when they think about character. In Bethesda games the memorable character are the ones you meet on your journey. People like Harold, Three Dog, Paarthunax, Ulfric Stormcloak etc. they are not any worse than what Bioware gave us IMO. The companions with personal stories is a new thing, and frankly I got bored by it pretty quickly. Travelling alone now.

What someone likes more depends on what someone expects from character, but one should not say that Bethesdas writing is worse in general. It depends on the aspect you're looking at. Like I said, when it comes to humor for example (which is also a part of character writing) Bioware doesn't even come close.    

 

Its funny...Harold is not a Bethesda character, and only Three Dog is really memorable out of that list honestly...

[saladinbob]

I think they should be looking to learn from the mistakes of DA:I rather than another game that is entirely different in its approach. Mistakes such as not leaking stuff that doesn't make it into the final game, mistakes such as not trying to bullshit your customers with blatant lies over development. Mistakes such as lifeless world hubs (cities). If they do want to look to another game, they should be looking to the design aspects of The Witcher 3. No transition between indoors and out. Worlds teeming with life with people who go by their day to day lives rather than being static until the player walks by. Most of all, not being afraid to not be politically correct. Bioware is becoming a laughing stock in regards to the last point.

[AlanC9]

A laughingstock? I've seen some Gamergate clowns ranting, but AFAIK they're not to be taken seriously. (It's amusing that the only people who actually act like the stereotypical SJW are on their side of the issues.)

As for the rest, DA:I's cities are about on par with what Bio's always done. Though you could say that Bio cities have always had crap design, sure. And yeah, DA:I's marketing teased stuff they didn't deliver, but so did ME1's, except that ME1 was way worse. These are general Bio problems rather than DA:I-specific issues.

Edit: I guess I just made this worse, but what on Earth does saladinbob's post have to do with the topic?

[The Hierophant]

I wouldn't say Bio's a laughingstock in regards to being pc, but they're viewed as a shell of of their former selves.

[Queen Skadi]

A laughingstock? I've seen some Gamergate clowns ranting, but AFAIK they're not to be taken seriously. (It's amusing that the only people who actually act like the stereotypical SJW are on their side of the issues.)

 

What is the stereotypical SJW you are referring to?

[AlanC9]

@ The Hierophant: By those with selective memories, anyway.

[AlanC9]

What is the stereotypical SJW you are referring to?

Someone who'll go to any lengths to promote his social agenda. I'm just talking about the behavior, not the particulars of that agenda.

[VilhoDog13]

Huh. Funny you say Bethesda has memorable characters.

For me, personally, I don't remember much of any. Throughout my journey in Skyrim, I only remember the old dudes at the top of the mountiain..the dragon...the woman that helps you, and literally no names. The story is negligible. I don't really remember any faces either.

Bioware games: All the companions (I won't bother to list), Kirrahe, Rachni queen, the council members, TIM, Benezia, Nassana, Rodriguez (student from ME3), -- the list can go on. Even if I don't remember the names, the faces are there.

Bethesda HAS to include characters, because that's really the only thing holding the game together that'll give it any story. Otherwise, you really might as well be playing that sandbox RPG where you make the game. Bioware doesn't need to make meaningless citizens interesting because the game doesn't revolve around them in any manner. The story/main characters are already interesting.

So, for me, Bioware wins characters hands down. Bethesda just...does sandbox well. No real depth there for me.

Edit: Also, why in the hell is being politically correct listed as a bad thing? The game is still a game and the developers of that game want to create something that's all-inclusive and humanizing. They're devs that actually give a damn about ensuring all who play their games have an experience that can be as close to the players identities as possible. While I might not like all Bioware games, I sure as hell respect the company as a whole.

[The Hierophant]

@ The Hierophant: By those with selective memories, anyway.

Hey, i'll have you know that my memories are perfectly fine!

[Shechinah]

I thought this be as amusing to some others as it was to me, it's a batch of the good ol' traditional Fallout glitches;

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=2dug_GySNKg

 

The art of corpse dancing is alive and well in the Commonwealth and Nick Valentine proves quite the proficent mime. It was apparently a Diamond City class.

[Shechinah]

For the most part I think I like the ending, at the very least how it played out for my first character; it's bittersweet for my character but the good kind of bittersweet where you've suffered losses and while things are not ideal, you have believable hope that you can deal with the losses and change things for the better, Work through the tragedy towards a better future, basically.

 

I'm also amused that what I envisioned for my character's future through headcanon came true in the game but each thing with a twist.

 

There is one thing I can say that I genuinely dislike about the ending and something I hope is not going to be a thing that happen in Mass Effect: Andromeda; the fact that it is the player character that delivers the sliding show narration without input from the player in regards to their dialogue. It is great when it fits the character and their journey but very bothersome to me when it does not and it did not fit with my character which made it jarring and a sequence I'll likely ignore in my future playthroughs.

 

I can see what they were going for and like I said, it's great and additionally poignant when it fits with the character but so jarring when it does not.

 

If there is such a character narration in future Fallout or Bioware games then I'd really prefer for the sequence to have the player decide what the player character will say.

 

All in all, I very much enjoyed Fallout 4 and I'm like to check out the DLC to see if it's interesting and then and until then I'll continue my character because I am not even close to exploring all of the Commonwealth yet.  

[Giantdeathrobot]

The game is overall better written than FO3 that's for certain (not that it's much of an achievement but still). I can't remember anything from that game beyond the silly bits that made me facepalm like Little Lamplight, the Tenpenny Towers quest and how stupid the existence of Megaton is. 

 

FO4 has a few nice, Bioware-eque companions (Piper, Cait, Nick, Hancock, I also like Codsworth) and some of the NPCs are fairly well written and voice acted, such as Maxson and Father. The central conflict between the factions is very New Vegas-esque, which is nice, even if the factions themselves aren't that interesting apart from the ''back to the roots'' Brotherhood. The Minuteman are flat goodie two-shoes, the Institute are the Think Tank with a prettier face, and the Railroad are just lame, who cares about android rights in a post-apocalyptic wasteland anyway. 

 

I also like how many companions have numerous environmental comments. They react to your explorations quite a lot, which is very nice, and some decisions will earn their disapproval.

 

Unfortunately a lot of that is hamstrung by a PC that is not allowed to emote often enough, especially considering the traumatic events they live, the awful dialog system, janky and bad looking pseudo-cutscenes, companions liking or disliking you for mundane actions (Cait literally fell in love with me because I lockpicked enough stuff and took drugs, that's even worse than DA:O's gifts), and ye olde Bethesda problem where you're encouraged to ignore the main story entirely in favor of going who knows where doing who knows what for the lulz, even if your primary objective is quite urgent and important.

 

It's a good effort in terms of writing, honestly. Definitely Beth's best written game in terms of characters at least. It's just that typical Bethesda idioms get in the way of the story's enjoyment. Dragon Age: Inquisition had this problem too, but nowhere near to the same degree if you ask me. At least even mundane quests in that game helped the Inquisition, setting up a farm for 2 generic NPCs in the middle of nowhere doesn't help me finding my son.

[Lady Artifice]

Maybe they can somehow learn how to have the most recent save file become corrupt every single time.

 

Friggin Bethesda. 

[Shechinah]

Maybe they can somehow learn how to have the most recent save file become corrupt every single time.

 

Friggin Bethesda. 

 

I know this is not an exclusively mod-related issue but are you by any chance using a mod like "Settlement Supplies Expanded" that uses something called Snip? I've heard it's been known to cause save corruption so much that it is considered risky to say the least.
 

[Sidney]

I know this is not an exclusively mod-related issue but are you by any chance using a mod like "Settlement Supplies Expanded" that uses something called Snip? I've heard it's been known to cause save corruption so much that it is considered risky to say the least.

This is known default behavior on the X1 without mods.

[Lady Artifice]

I know this is not an exclusively mod-related issue but are you by any chance using a mod like "Settlement Supplies Expanded" that uses something called Snip? I've heard it's been known to cause save corruption so much that it is considered risky to say the least.
 

 

That's the thing, this is happening on the Xbox one. No mods at all. I've only had an issue like this ever happen once before, and now it's happening every time I sign on. 

[Rannik]

That's the thing, this is happening on the Xbox one. No mods at all. I've only had an issue like this ever happen once before, and now it's happening every time I sign on. 

 

And stuff like this is why backups and/or version control are an important part of any half decent platform.

[Shechinah]

That's the thing, this is happening on the Xbox one. No mods at all. I've only had an issue like this ever happen once before, and now it's happening every time I sign on. 

 

Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. Can you avoid losing progress by making a double save or does it corrupt both?
 

[Lady Artifice]

Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. Can you avoid losing progress by making a double save or does it corrupt both?
 

 

Double save is working well enough at the moment. Here's hoping the corruption doesn't start cascading. 

[Innocent Bystander]

After finally finishing main story and experiencing the CLUSTERF**K it became starting at The Battle of Bunker Hill (institute ending), I hope BioWare will only consider stuff Fallout is failing at so they can avoid it.