and how to do implicit story telling
I do acknowledge that Bethesda does some interesting things when they let you figure the story out yourself. I just took on Libertalia, and boy did that console in the captain's cabin offer up some startling information after I hacked it.
Still, even that isn't always very realistic. Sometimes consolves have more info on them than it really makes sense for them to have, people carry diaries of events most people wouldn't chronicle, etc.
I've got the clothing boost, but what are you doing in addition to keep it registering your charisma that high? Do you take grape mentats every time you visit a settlement?
I wanted to move people to The Castle and Sunshine Tidings Co-op. I went to Sanctuary and took grape mentats, day tripper and alcohol (while also wearing clothing) and started shipping people off, I did that once. As far as I know the number of settlers stays the same even after your charisma returns to normal. For some reason I could only get 32 at The Castle but I had 34 at Sunshine Tidings, maybe companions stationed at The Castle was the reason.
and how to do implicit story telling
One of FO4's problems is that too much of its potentially interesting storytelling is implicit.
I mean, people said that of Inquisition, and I agreed to a degree, but Bethesda really needs to learn that massacring all the automatically hostile gunners in Quincy and then finding out they had quirks X and Y in a terminal somewhere is nowhere near as interesting as having the option to actually talk to those characters or even join them if appropriate.
That's another thing New Vegas did better. The only automatically hostile humans are a few gangs and most Fiends, all of which are justified in-story and you can even talk to the Fiend's leader if you play your cards right. Whereas in Fallout 4 every Gunner, every Raider, and most Scavengers shoot everything else on sight seemingly for no other reason than to give the player something to fight.
Story coming from terminals, audio logs and such is fine, and Bethesda is actually fairly good at that. But they need to rely less on that and more on actually interesting factions and characters; on that FO4 is an improvement over FO3, but still falls way short of its potential I find.
One of FO4's problems is that too much of its potentially interesting storytelling is implicit.
I mean, people said that of Inquisition, and I agreed to a degree, but Bethesda really needs to learn that massacring all the automatically hostile gunners in Quincy and then finding out they had quirks X and Y in a terminal somewhere is nowhere near as interesting as having the option to actually talk to those characters or even join them if appropriate.
That's another thing New Vegas did better. The only automatically hostile humans are a few gangs and most Fiends, all of which are justified in-story and you can even talk to the Fiend's leader if you play your cards right. Whereas in Fallout 4 every Gunner, every Raider, and most Scavengers shoot everything else on sight seemingly for no other reason than to give the player something to fight.
Story coming from terminals, audio logs and such is fine, and Bethesda is actually fairly good at that. But they need to rely less on that and more on actually interesting factions and characters; on that FO4 is an improvement over FO3, but still falls way short of its potential I find.
You can even make friends with the Enclave or Caesar's Legion in FO:NV
Although the Legion suffers from the majority of its non Mojave and Mojave content being cut.
Even then, Sawyer said the Legion are villains, just ones you can side with ALA the Master in Fallout 1. The cut content would have shown their good side but they're still rampaging mass enslavers and rapists.
The closest equivalent in FO4 is siding with the Institute I guess, and even then their villainy is mostly background material, like how they release Muties back to the surface and make life worse for everyone else in so doing. I'd have loved to call Shaun out on that particular stunt.
Even then, Sawyer said the Legion are villains, just ones you can side with ALA the Master in Fallout 1. The cut content would have shown their good side but they're still rampaging mass enslavers and rapists.
Sawyer is entitled to his opinion of course, and I respect it given what it actually warrants but that said 'villain' is a subjective term. Admittedly the Legion doesn't have the level of support it would if this was say...2161 but that said it does provide a alternative perspective to say the NCR or House. All societies have pros and cons after all.
The Legion provides safe, secure and orderly society, free trade and lacks much of the corruption and self interest that you'd find in California and the Mojave. That to me is enough to actually give the Legion a pass, given that this is all established either through dialogue or lore even if much of it is absent in the game itself. The 'raping' and 'slaving' to me is less of a problem given this is post nuclear apocalypse and the fact that they do have non 'enslaved' citizenry, the slaving is done within active conflict zones as a labor force measure(I'd assume anyway given there is no mention what so ever of a active slave market outside of the Mojave for the Legion and this would support what Sawyer himself said), the folks back in Flagstaff, Denver, Tuscon, Yuma, etc are not slaves, they simply live in Legion territory.
Huh? Liking a an old game in the past is nostalgia, and continuing to like the game to this day doesn't count? Where's the logic there?
Do you even know why I liked them?
That's how nostalgia works...
The "why" is irrelevant. You just do, because you always have. It's not even supposed to be logical.
Baldur's Gate and Zeus: Master of Olympia have equally horrid graphics by today's standards. Yet despite loving RPGs more than strategy games, and BG being praised as one of the best RPGs ever, I can't manage to even look at BG today without cringing. Meanwhile I can play Zeus all day because I've played it for years and then some.
That's how nostalgia works...
The "why" is irrelevant. You just do, because you always have. It's not even supposed to be logical.
Baldur's Gate and Zeus: Master of Olympia have equally horrid graphics by today's standards. Yet despite loving RPGs more than strategy games, and BG being praised as one of the best RPGs ever, I can't manage to even look at BG today without cringing. Meanwhile I can play Zeus all day because I've played it for years and then some.
So, because you no longer care for BG, my liking it is purely nostalgia.
Gotcha
I can't look at ME3 today without cringing. Maybe I should start saying everyone who likes that game is nostalgic 
That's how nostalgia works...
The "why" is irrelevant. You just do, because you always have. It's not even supposed to be logical.
Baldur's Gate and Zeus: Master of Olympia have equally horrid graphics by today's standards. Yet despite loving RPGs more than strategy games, and BG being praised as one of the best RPGs ever, I can't manage to even look at BG today without cringing. Meanwhile I can play Zeus all day because I've played it for years and then some.
Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.
I think that there are are some lauded games - most notably BG1 and (I'd definitely say) FO1 - that don't hold up particularly well without the nostalgia goggles on. But while I can't speak to BG2 (it's still the only Bioware game I've never played), KoTOR holds up. Full stop. No rose tinting necessary.
Honestly, KoTOR and KoTOR 2 realize the potential of the Star Wars setting better and more fully than any of the films. My experience with Force Awakens this past week just rams that home.
So, because you no longer care for BG, my liking it is purely nostalgia.
Gotcha
I can't look at ME3 today without cringing. Maybe I should start saying everyone who likes that game is nostalgic
I never liked BG to begin with because I never played it. I didn't develop the nostalgia to overcome my need for "pretty" graphics.
So no you didn't "Gotcha".
Even your shady ME3 comment is appropriate. I managed to overcome my dislikes about ME3 because I liked the ME trilogy as a whole, in no small part to nostalgia.
Seriously. Implying that emotional connection has nothing to do with our enjoyment of games, in a trilogy no less, is ignorant at best.
Nostalgia is one of those weak ass slights people like to throw around for no reason. There is no way to show why a person still likes a game but I'd say nostalgia is pretty much never the reason. Nostalgic feelings are positive impressions of past things. So if you go back and play it you wonder why you had this great memory of it, then I'd call it nostalgia. If the game still holds up its not nostalgia it's just a good game for you. I mean I guess if while playing it you were saying man this game sucks but it reminds me of my youth when I was waiting tables and going to college I was really happy then, that would be nostalgia as well.
We enjoy older games because we expect to recreate the same experience we had at the time.
Being able to ignore the faults (by today's standards) is in no small part due to nostalgia.
I never liked BG to begin with because I never played it. I didn't develop the nostalgia to overcome my need for "pretty" graphics.
So no you didn't "Gotcha".
Even your shady ME3 comment is appropriate. I managed to overcome my dislikes about ME3 because I liked the ME trilogy as a whole, in no small part to nostalgia.
Seriously. Implying that emotional connection has nothing to do with our enjoyment of games is ignorant at best.
Then you really don't understand why I (and others) like the game and continue to play it TO THIS DAY.
Hint: pretty graphics don't factor into it at all. Good or bad.
Emotional connection is important to enjoying a game. But throwing "nostalgia" around as an excuse why anyone likes a game you don't is...incorrect (see how polite I was there?)
People like games for many different reasons: graphics, mechanics, storyline, characters, genre, the list goes on. People can like old games not just because it reminds them of the halcyon days of their youth, but because it contains elements that they find and still find appealing.
you think people like Fallout 4 because it reminds them of Fallout 1? Or Fallout Tactics?
Then you really don't understand why I (and others) like the game and continue to play it TO THIS DAY.
Hint: pretty graphics don't factor into it at all. Good or bad.
Emotional connection is important to enjoying a game. But throwing "nostalgia" around as an excuse why anyone likes a game you don't is...incorrect (see how polite I was there?)
You're really being dense aren't you?
I do understand why you like the game. It's an RPG with very good story elements etc etc...
I would love it too, except my subjective feelings towards graphics (which you are readily dismissing for no reason at all), override my capability to play the game as a new experience.
Had I played it earlier, I would have developed the ability to play it despite its shitty graphics. I gave you the example of Zeus: Master of Olympia. Another example is Dungeon Siege 2.
---
Honestly I think you're confused about what nostalgia means. You think it has negative connotations when it doesn't.
Nostalgia: a sentimental longing or wistful affection for the past, typically for a period or place with happy personal associations.
There's nothing inherently bad about nostalgia. It simply allows you to override your dislikes of a particular experience by emphasizing the good ones that you've had due to previous experiences.
I know you think there's literally nothing you dislike about those games, but the way you talk about current ones makes me wonder if you even know what you like.
Oh you do. You just like them in THAT specific form. The form you've liked in forever... a preference rooted in... nostalgia.
Side note: It's interesting to see how readily dismissive people are of the effects of psychological conditioning.
We enjoy older games because we expect to recreate the same experience we had at the time.
Being able to ignore the faults (by today's standards) is in no small part due to nostalgia.
You're really being dense aren't you?
I do understand why you like the game. It's an RPG with very good story elements etc etc...
I would love it too, except my subjective feelings towards graphics (which you are readily dismissing for no reason at all), override my capability to play the game as a new experience.
Had I played it earlier, I would have developed the ability to play it despite its shitty graphics. I gave you the example of Zeus: Master of Olympia. Another example is Dungeon Siege 2.
I'm dismissing graphics because they really don't matter much to me. I'll freely admit that BG2's graphics aren't as good as Fallout 4's. And Fallout 4's graphics are not as good as ME3's. If that's part of the criteria you use to judge how much you like a game, that's fine. But that's your measuring stick, no tmine. I have different priorities.
I have played Zeus: Master of Olympus and Dungeon Siege 2 in the past. The former was a decent enough game. Didn't care for the latter.
---
Honestly I think you're confused about what nostalgia means. You think it has negative connotations when it doesn't.
Nostalgia: a sentimental longing or wistful affection for the past, typically for a period or place with happy personal associations.There's nothing inherently bad about nostalgia. It simply allows you to override your dislikes of a particular experience by emphasizing the good ones that you've had due to previous experiences.
I know you think there's literally nothing you dislike about those games, but the way you talk about current ones makes me wonder if you even know what you like.Oh you do. You just like them in THAT specific form. The form you've liked in forever... a preference rooted in... nostalgia.
Side note: It's interesting to see how readily dismissive people are of the effects of psychological conditioning.
It's still not nostalgia on my part.
Again, I continue to play BG and BG2 to this day. I played Icewind Dale (for the first time) earlier this year and enjoyed it too (though I had to mod it to get more Bioware-styled companions) I play Shadowrun Returns, Pillars of Eternity, and Planescape: Torment. I am a backer of Torment: Tides of Numenera. I recently got a copy of Divinity: Original Sin which I intend to start after finishing Fallout 4. I even played Arcanum, and my biggest complaint was a periodic fps dropoff.
Are we seeing a pattern here? that perhaps my enjoyment of Baldur's Gate is not simple nostalgia, or a longing for something in the past, but that perhaps I enjoy something about that style of game? Something that you dismiss as readily as I dismiss graphics?
Here's a small feature in FO4 that I'd like to see integrated into Bioware games: let us quicksave in the middle of dialogue cutscenes. Far too often, I'd be playing through a cutscene with, say, 5 or more dialogue choices, and if just one of them comes out in a way that's unexpected, I have to go back to my last save and start all over again to see if one of the other options is closer to what I'm looking for. If you're in an area where the game is pushing you along with autosaves only, you may have to go back even further. In ME3, a single unintended line anywhere in the exchanges with TIM, Anderson,and the Catalyst means going all the way back to when Shepard first arrives on the Citadel.
They could learn how to have armor disappear, like in my game. My winterized power armor, almost fully upgraded, at Sanctuary is just gone.
At least I didn't put Tessa's fist on it, like I planned to do.
They could learn how to have armor disappear, like in my game. My winterized power armor, almost fully upgraded, at Sanctuary is just gone.
At least I didn't put Tessa's fist on it, like I planned to do.
one of the settlers probably got in it and exited it somewhere in the area
one of the settlers probably got in it and exited it somewhere in the area
I wondered if that was the case, it just seems so strange that they would program the AI to do that.
They could learn how to have armor disappear, like in my game. My winterized power armor, almost fully upgraded, at Sanctuary is just gone.
At least I didn't put Tessa's fist on it, like I planned to do.
one of the settlers probably got in it and exited it somewhere in the area
Now i'm scared.
edit- safe. Now i'll have to place the power stations on a platform that only i could reach.
Now i'm scared.
The AI is learning....evolving
The AI is learning....evolving
Yeah, they're evolving alright. Evolving into damn thieves. There used to be a time when nobody dared to touch my gear. Times a changing man.
I never want to feel the kind of feels that Val Kilmer felt when Chris O'Donnell went joyriding in the batmobile.
Yeah, they're evolving alright. Evolving into damn thieves. There used to be a time when nobody dared to touch my gear. Times a changing man.
I never want to feel the kind of feels that Val Kilmer felt when Chris O'Donnell went joyriding in the batmobile.
Retour en haut