1378 réponses à ce sujet

[Ahglock]

Because you couldn't fully automate the triggering process in DAI the way you could in DA2, right? OK, though the only skill required is being able to hit the pause button when the status effect happens. I still don't see how this is harder than hitting stuff in Skyrim.

It is for me. I may have had bad luck on drops or didn't understand crafting enough but I get tore apart on even level enemies if I don't get the combos down and I have a hard time getting them to land. DA2 was murder for me on this. It's not a huge difference in combat skill required between DA and skyrim but skyrim goes a lot further with a wider range of skills which can be out of combat. So a little less skill for me in combat and tons more out of combat character based results to make it overall more a RPG to me. Not saying better or worse game, just hits what I primarily look for in the RPG title a bit more.

I'm not a fan of the isometric like view anymore but I really like DAI just feels more action game to me than skyrim did with things like no out of combat stealth past enemies, no skill based persuasion(does it even have persuasion in DAI I don't remember any), crafting just happens by NPC if you have the schematics and materials no skill based development there.

But I don't want bioware to be Bethesda or Bethesda to be bioware. I like different games for different reasons and if they all learned something from one source my other gaming likes would not be satisfied

[Sidney]

It is for me. I may have had bad luck on drops or didn't understand crafting enough but I get tore apart on even level enemies if I don't get the combos down and I have a hard time getting them to land. DA2 was murder for me on this. It's not a huge difference in combat skill required between DA and skyrim but skyrim goes a lot further with a wider range of skills which can be out of combat. So a little less skill for me in combat and tons more out of combat character based results to make it overall more a RPG to me. Not saying better or worse game, just hits what I primarily look for in the RPG title a bit more.
I'm not a fan of the isometric like view anymore but I really like DAI just feels more action game to me than skyrim did with things like no out of combat stealth past enemies, no skill based persuasion(does it even have persuasion in DAI I don't remember any), crafting just happens by NPC if you have the schematics and materials no skill based development there.
But I don't want bioware to be Bethesda or Bethesda to be bioware. I like different games for different reasons and if they all learned something from one source my other gaming likes would not be satisfied

It can't be harder to combat in DAI than Skyrim, Skyrim plays like an FPS in combat where if you can't aim or block you are screwed. Your actually RPG related skills have precious little to do with that actually...just like lock picking, the player can be so bad they can override how good the character is. That really can't happen in DAI.

I sorta want to laugh about non-combat skills in Skyrim since not being in combat was sorta like not doing anything in the game. When your gameplay is a crappier version of Borderlands shoot n loot style of playing not sure how much use you get out of non-combat skills. Crafting in Skyrim is so broken I'm not even sure I'd bring that up since the "development" consistented of making a crap ton of daggers over and over and using a recipe just like DAI.

[Seraphim24]

Ok, I think I understand.

 

 

I see where you're coming from, but context and intent can be important considerations if you're trying to assess quality (at least, quality of story). I think we get into murky territory if we judge a game that aspires to be an open world rpg with the exact same parameters that we judge one that aspires to be a linear puzzle platform game.

 

I also think there's too many variables and too many different priorities people can place of different aspects of a game to ever make this kind of debate find common ground, though.

 

Murky territory? The reality is we have even fewer limitations than I thought possible, not only can you compare games in different genres to other games, you can compare across media in general. Games as close together as Dragon Age and Bethesda are as easy as it gets.

 

The common ground is pretty easy, what was the most fun, the most engaging, the most immersive? The objectively best thing is what commands the most interest.

 

In this case, Bioware has historically done quite a bit better than Bethesda, at least, post-Morrowind Bethesda.

 

That said, the gap will widen and close with any given iteration, I've heard that Fallout 4 was a bit better than Fallout 3, but even if every Fallout iteration for the next 20 years was better than the previous one, that would ultimately put them just behind the first Dragon Age, and still behind on some level Fallout 2.

 

The hardcore elements in Dragon Age just make it more fun, Bethesda games are just way too easy, but as far as murky goes, Dragon Age 2 is also fairly easy so eh...

 

Dragon Age Inquisition is much closer to 2 than 1 in spirit.

[Lady Artifice]

The common ground is pretty easy, what was the most fun, the most engaging, the most immersive? The objectively best thing is what commands the most interest.

 

This entire forum in general and this thread in particular constantly churn out evidence of a wide array of different opinions regarding which game is the most fun, engaging, and immersive. 

[Seraphim24]

This entire forum in general and this thread in particular constantly churn out evidence of a wide array of different opinions regarding which game is the most fun, engaging, and immersive. 

 

That's kind of everywhere about everything.

[Lady Artifice]

That's kind of everywhere about everything.

 

That is correct. 

[Seraphim24]

That is correct. 

 

It doesn't preclude finding a resolution though.

 

Edit: Sorry to the person that liked my comment about 3 star yelp review places being frequently better than 4.5 star ones... I er.... don't really know how many people would even know what yelp is anyway.

[Iakus]

One thing I can hope Bioware learns after beating the main storyline is to be able to not choose the extremist positions.

 

I mean

Spoiler

Destroy: Brotherhood of Steel

Control: Institute

Synthesis: Railroad

 

In the end, I chose: Minutemen.

[Akrabra]

What Mass Effect Andromeda can learn from Fallout 4 is Preston Garvey and his mark settlements on map skills. He is clearly talented and in need of new friends since nobody likes him!

[LinksOcarina]

What Mass Effect Andromeda can learn from Fallout 4 is Preston Garvey and his mark settlements on map skills. He is clearly talented and in need of new friends since nobody likes him!

 

It doesn't help that he has the personality of a wooden post.

[Akrabra]

It doesn't help that he has the personality of a wooden post.

That's offensive to wooden posts.

[LinksOcarina]

That's offensive to wooden posts.

 

Eh, I usually scrap them anyway.

 

I like the idea of Preston, I just wish he was a bit more dynamic. His naivety wears on you.

 

I guess it could be worse, X6, Strong and Cait are by far more poorly written. 

[RatThing]

When it comes to companions, I hope that ME:A (or any other game) never implements an affinity system like Bethesda in FO4. Letting your companions judge literally every single thing that you do without the possibility to say something, goddamnit was that annoying. I couldn't stand them anymore because of that and went through the game solo after a while. And it's not that I don't want the followers to have their own minds, quite on the contrary. But hey, give me a chance to react, to either try to make them understand if they don't like something or to tell them to go to hell. If they're around the game acts as if your primary objective should be to please your companions and that you failed somehow if you got a "xy hated that" message.

And sometimes it was just silly, though amusing to give me those messages. Two situations from my game (SPOILER). Went with the institute. Papa Shaun gave me the order to destroy the Railroad. Found them all in their headquarter, Deacon included. Told Desdemona via dialogue that I gonna have to kill them all now. Got the message "Deacon hated that"... . Really? So Deacon doesn't like to be killed? I guess I misjudged him then. Is it really neccessary to tell me, Deacon isn't quite cool with me when I'm about to kill his ass?

Second situation, destroyed the Institute this time. Later I find Piper in Diamond City trying to break open the door to the mayors office. She doesn't succeed, so I use a bobby pin to unlock the door. Piper: "Blue, what are you doing?" plus the message "Piper disliked that" (Piper apparently doesn`t like it if you open locked doors). Well Piper, what were you trying to do just seconds ago? Is she mad at me because she failed so miserably and I made it look so easy? 

So yeah, this new affinity system from FO4 was good for a couple laughs here and there, but ultimately made me wish back the silent pack mules from FO3 and Skyrim.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

I think they should be looking to learn from the mistakes of DA:I rather than another game that is entirely different in its approach. Mistakes such as not leaking stuff that doesn't make it into the final game, mistakes such as not trying to bullshit your customers with blatant lies over development. Mistakes such as lifeless world hubs (cities). If they do want to look to another game, they should be looking to the design aspects of The Witcher 3. No transition between indoors and out. Worlds teeming with life with people who go by their day to day lives rather than being static until the player walks by. Most of all, not being afraid to not be politically correct. Bioware is becoming a laughing stock in regards to the last point.

And that's sad that they didn't step up their game, they have tremendous potential to be one of the best video game devs if they start listening,and don't flip the bird on fans and critics because their games didn't lived up to their expectations. I think they should start hiring new people with passion (which they lack) and talent to make their games more awesome for years to come. I really hope they'll do better this year.

[Lady Artifice]

So, I guess all of my PC's closest friends, and most of her fonder acquaintances...

 

Spoiler

 

are machines. 

 

 

Okay, then. Awesome. 

[KaiserShep]

Eh, I usually scrap them anyway.

 

I like the idea of Preston, I just wish he was a bit more dynamic. His naivety wears on you.

 

I guess it could be worse, X6, Strong and Cait are by far more poorly written. 

 

 

More poorly written? That's sapping away my optimism for eventually meeting more companion characters. At least I have Codsworth so far, who is largely unoffensive. 

[CrimsonN7]

It doesn't help that he has the personality of a wooden post.

 

True but Danse

 

 

is a real stick in the mud also.

[Iakus]

More poorly written? That's sapping away my optimism for eventually meeting more companion characters. At least I have Codsworth so far, who is largely unoffensive. 

NIck was awesome.

 

I also enjoyed Deacon and Piper.

[CrimsonN7]

More poorly written? That's sapping away my optimism for eventually meeting more companion characters. At least I have Codsworth so far, who is largely unoffensive. 

 

I liked Strong, he disliked nearly everything I did. Tinker tinker, Strong bored!

 

Cait,

Spoiler

she's alright even if she is a walking stereotype and has a terribad Irish accent.

Some of her lines did make me laugh at least.

[Master Warder Z_]

There will never be as good a companion as Dean Domino in FO ever again.

[goofyomnivore]

Hmm I know I mentioned it earlier, but I did another playthrough of the Witcher 3 and holy crap did I miss not being able to quicksave during dialogue. I really hope that feature from Fallout 4 makes it into other voiced games. It makes navigating a dialogue wheel/tree a bit more convenient when it does/says something you hadn't anticipated. I think its a good alternative to having the line word for word on the screen.

[Amplitudelol]

What bioware should learn from Fallout 4? I dont know, reskin the previous game (Fallout 3) with nice new models and locations, use the same engine, combat system (the only change in the game is VATS which does not stop time -  ), everything and add weapon customization with a little Sims activity, then release it? Dumbing down the rpg elements is not even worth mentioning anymore, its the usual and expected addition to "rpg"-s nowadays. Good game though, but not if you already played 100s of hours of Fallout 3 and New Vegas because its same again over and over again.

 

Seriously noone notices that since Oblivion Bethesda releases the same game with different skins? Try playing Fallout with melee weapon and you get the same game as Elder Scrolls with almost the same interface.

[xAmilli0n]

The character creator was pretty nifty.  Definitely some things to learn from that.

[In Exile]

The character creator was pretty nifty.  Definitely some things to learn from that.

 

Really? I found it so much more annoying than just manipulating sliders with a mouse.

[AlleyD]

I think some very key lessons can be learned from Fallout 4 and that some of the more important ones weren't.

 

Fallout 4 achieved record breaking sales figures on launch date, I read reports of around 12 million copies, $750 million dollars in the first 24 hours. Even more remarkable when taken into account that the Fallout brandname doesn't have the mainstream cultural awareness of franchises like COD and GTA that have achieved such sales figures, the take up had been from within the gaming community in the main.

 

The reports I read attribute some of this success could have generated by effective marketing strategies. The game that had been in development for 4 years and had managed to avoid being leaked, or revealing anything to the fanbase to speculate on. The teaser revealed nothing, and the first the public had anything tangible to go on was E3 when a playable, virtually complete product was revealed that was commerically available shortly afterwards.

 

I contrast that with ME:A which follows a more traditional marketing policy for gaming. Trying to generate hype with teaser trailers that are shown at a stage of product development which gives the consumer nothing to go on. I believe that is an ineffective marketing strategy, and possibly even self defeating because the more time fans spend waiting on a product, the more speculating they do, the higher expectations they assume. I've watched that trend play out in this forum since the ME:A announcement and it will be interesting to see how the market reacts to Mass Effect:Andromeda. It's one of the more "anticipated " games due in 2016 and "should" be massive hit, but big enough to tackle the Bethesda behemoth?