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Anyone excited to see what Bioware and ME:A can learn from Fallout 4?


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#201
In Exile

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Yeah, I play a female character and Courtenay does a good job. Especially considering the tepid script she's provided.

And yeah, the workshop stuff is not very fun. It sorta works for basic stuff like placing beds and defenses, but if you try to build a house it's ridiculously unwieldy.

The interface in general utterly sucks, on PC at least.

And I sure hope the quest design in that game is copied by no one. Having to go into a massive factory to kill 40+ raiders in one of the first quests has got to be a joke. Especially when the ''settlements'' in the game number less than a half dozen people.


I think the settlement they tried to "raid" had 5 stalks of carrots or something and 6 shacks, whereas the "raiders" lived in a luxurious factory that all things considered was well-maintained and quite comfortable. It made no sense.

#202
In Exile

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Um no, this crafting system is this sort of tedious make work crap taken to the logic end. Bioware need to look at this steaming heap of trash of a system and realize basically no one bought this game for this abomination and not to try and model on it.


The game is quite literally asking you to collect garbage. This feature is the essence of, IMO, what's wrong with crafting. I can appreciate that some people enjoy this time of game. But there had to be a way to balance between a feature like that and literally walking through town collecting and recycling garbage.
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#203
ZombiePopper

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The mats system isn't bad...once you get used to it.
It took me a min to figure out wth I have power armor pieces in my inventory but my power armor is standing right in front of me.
(Most armor pieces can be added to existing armor)
Dogmeat is kickass just give him a teddy bear and let em go to town :) but he does get in the way at times but not as bad as other Bethesda companions.
I'm really digging the paint options on the power armor! (The hot rod paint resembles the outcasts armor!)
I'm still trying to figure out all the power options though (electricity that is). Trying to power a whole building without running lines to every single fixture.
And don't get me started on installing doors and trying to get every corner of every wall lined up perfectly, your OCD will kill you.
I like FO4 so far,
But I'm not certain if it's because I just missed the IP or because it's a good game...
In truth, a lot of does seem like previous titles but that may have more to do with the fact that the controls are exactly the same...

#204
Sylvius the Mad

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R* took an extra year to work on the PC version and also bring new features and optimization for the game.

Great. So look at FO4 a year from now if you want to make a fair comparison.

Has that GTA5 mod community modfied the core game at all? Are there UI mods? How about changes to core mechanics?

#205
Sylvius the Mad

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A decent crafting system should seem overly complicated when you first see it. If it didn't, there wouldn't be enough depth.

Once some people get the hang of the crafting system, we'll probably see some decent mods that consist of completed structures.

#206
Zekka

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Great. So look at FO4 a year from now if you want to make a fair comparison.

Has that GTA5 mod community modfied the core game at all? Are there UI mods? How about changes to core mechanics?

yes. There's even a GTA V mod that turns the game into an rpg. Full with character customization, dialogue choices, inventory systems and more.

There are mods that revamp the crime system of the game. Mods that put in new characters from other series like Hulk, Ironman and all that crap, and UI mods.



#207
Giantdeathrobot

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The game is quite literally asking you to collect garbage. This feature is the essence of, IMO, what's wrong with crafting. I can appreciate that some people enjoy this time of game. But there had to be a way to balance between a feature like that and literally walking through town collecting and recycling garbage.

 

It plays hell with your inventory too. All the mountains of junk you carry start to be annoying towards mid-game when weapons start gaining weight. Sure, you can store it and use companions as mules, but I already have Dogmeat and Cait with full inventories, with Strong (a Super Mutant companion) pretty loaded up too. Honestly if there's a mod that makes the junk items weightless I'll download it. As a counterpart I'll make ammo have weight. And it's also supremely annoying that items in your companion's inventory can't be used for crafting.

 

This is why I prefer inventory systems like Dragon Age's. Screw weight, and make the crafting materials not take up space. If I want meaningful inventory management I'll play XCOM or Deus Ex. In games like open world RPGs that encourage you to loot anything that's not nailed down, weight just makes everything more tedious.

 

I still feel like the game starts to pick up when you reach Diamong City and its outskirts. If only because you finally meet some midly interesting characters and a few quests have multiple solutions to them. Also because the shorter distances make Power Armor usage less of a chore.


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#208
Shechinah

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I think the settlement they tried to "raid" had 5 stalks of carrots or something and 6 shacks, whereas the "raiders" lived in a luxurious factory that all things considered was well-maintained and quite comfortable. It made no sense.

 

If we're thinking of the same factory then I do not remember seeing any area designated for growing food anywhere in the factory though that may be something I missed. The place seemed to favor security and defense at the cost of not being self-sufficent. They may also have developed a reap, not sow mentality since they are more numerous and better armed and armored than most settlers and so have been able to threaten themselves to things unopposed from legitimite threats.

 

Also they were experimenting with drugs so munchies were to be expected.
 



#209
Sylvius the Mad

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It plays hell with your inventory too. All the mountains of junk you carry start to be annoying towards mid-game when weapons start gaining weight. Sure, you can store it and use companions as mules, but I already have Dogmeat and Cait with full inventories, with Strong (a Super Mutant companion) pretty loaded up too. Honestly if there's a mod that makes the junk items weightless I'll download it. As a counterpart I'll make ammo have weight. And it's also supremely annoying that items in your companion's inventory can't be used for crafting.

This is why I prefer inventory systems like Dragon Age's. Screw weight, and make the crafting materials not take up space. If I want meaningful inventory management I'll play XCOM or Deus Ex. In games like open world RPGs that encourage you to loot anything that's not nailed down, weight just makes everything more tedious.

The weight is the thing that encourages you not to loot everything nailed down.
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#210
Shechinah

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Bizarrely I'm a lootaholic and I still very much like the weight system. I'd even be sad to see it go.


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#211
VilhoDog13

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Can someone please explain the appeal of this game? I keep watching videos trying to psych myself up for it, but the game just seems awful.

Brown, brown, and more brown, with some various shades of brown.

The awkward looking combat where you shoot parts of an enemy in slow motion then returns to first person.

Skyrim inventory.

Not very interesting characters/story (from what gameplay I've seen).

The UI is ugly. Just...so ugly.

I'm someone who thought Skyrim was a mediocre game at best. The amount of hype it got confounded me. FO4 seems like a post apocalyptic (my LEAST favorite setting in ANY form of entertainment) Skyrim. Now, my comments may seem like I'm intentionally hating on the game - I'm not. These are observations that I've noticed for me, but I keep trying to watch videos because people seem to enjoy the game. Genuinely, with no sarcasm, can someone please tell me why it's enjoyable?
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#212
Canned Bullets

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No, they're both completely different games. They're both in the same genre (RPG) but that's where the similarities end.



#213
HusarX

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1) In 2015 you can make a  AAA game, that looks worse than Crysis from 2007, with mods from 2012. But people still gonna buy it.

2) 60 fps is overrated.

3) Co-op is overrated.

4) Include a dog teammate. 


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#214
Kalas Magnus

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Can someone please explain the appeal of this game? I keep watching videos trying to psych myself up for it, but the game just seems awful.

Brown, brown, and more brown, with some various shades of brown.

The awkward looking combat where you shoot parts of an enemy in slow motion then returns to first person.

Skyrim inventory.

Not very interesting characters/story (from what gameplay I've seen).

The UI is ugly. Just...so ugly.

I'm someone who thought Skyrim was a mediocre game at best. The amount of hype it got confounded me. FO4 seems like a post apocalyptic (my LEAST favorite setting in ANY form of entertainment) Skyrim. Now, my comments may seem like I'm intentionally hating on the game - I'm not. These are observations that I've noticed for me, but I keep trying to watch videos because people seem to enjoy the game. Genuinely, with no sarcasm, can someone please tell me why it's enjoyable?

bethesda fan: just wait for the mods!



#215
Helios969

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Can someone please explain the appeal of this game? I keep watching videos trying to psych myself up for it, but the game just seems awful.

Brown, brown, and more brown, with some various shades of brown.

The awkward looking combat where you shoot parts of an enemy in slow motion then returns to first person.

Skyrim inventory.

Not very interesting characters/story (from what gameplay I've seen).

The UI is ugly. Just...so ugly.

I'm someone who thought Skyrim was a mediocre game at best. The amount of hype it got confounded me. FO4 seems like a post apocalyptic (my LEAST favorite setting in ANY form of entertainment) Skyrim. Now, my comments may seem like I'm intentionally hating on the game - I'm not. These are observations that I've noticed for me, but I keep trying to watch videos because people seem to enjoy the game. Genuinely, with no sarcasm, can someone please tell me why it's enjoyable?

I can pretty much relate to everything you said.  I own both Skyrim and FO3...and played less than 20 hours combined.  Neither has any real story to speak of.  I think these are games for people who like blank slate characters and giant sandboxes.  I was hoping FO4 would differ from traditional Bethesda titles and provide a focused narrative, sadly, it sounds like more of the same.  My next hope on the horizon is the coming Deus Ex game.  I just hope that improves on the previous combat system and has better written dialogue (DE:HR had very amateurish writing imo.)  If that fails to interest me it's a long wait for ME:A and Cyberpunk 2077.  Damn, now I've depressed myself.



#216
Navasha

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IMO, the biggest take away that Bioware can learn from any Bethesda game is mod-ability.    I would venture to say that Bethesda games in general are only slightly above average in their vanilla form.    However, with their ease of player made mod development and use, they rocket into stellar levels.    A fully modded Skyrim is 100x the game compared to the vanilla release.  

 

I expect Fallout 4 to be similar.   To me, Bethesda releases a shell of a game and a building tool and lets players make their own game tailored to their own likes and dislikes.    As long as they keep that format, I will always buy a Bethesda game because ultimately I know I can make the game the way I like it.  


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#217
themikefest

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Bioware could add the option to send a squadmate back to the ship. In Fallout, the main character can send the companion back if he/she wants


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#218
Shechinah

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Can someone please explain the appeal of this game? I keep watching videos trying to psych myself up for it, but the game just seems awful.

 

I've made a post about some of the appeal the Fallout series' have to me but as it is a matter of opinion as it often is with these sorts of things, I can only speak for myself. The post in question is #180 on page 8 if you are interested in reading it. It's a bit lengthy but there is a TL:DR at the end.

 

I can see why the series may hold little to no appeal to others but I personally love it including what I've played of Fallout 4 so far though in the case of the latter I cannot fully form an opinion since I've barely scratched the surface of it yet. I like taking my time especially when it plays into my roleplaying. That said, the series does have it's share of flaws and there are new implementations in Fallout 4 that are not in themselves but their implementation and workings can stand to be refined a bit here and more there.
 



#219
vbibbi

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The two pictures above (from KingofTime), I've seen it happen (PC version). It's a location on the map called Thicket Extractions (I believe, it's a mining symbol on the map, not very far from Concord). What is shown is in fact the textures simply not loading properly. When they do load it does NOT look like that. To fix it you need to completely quit the game and restart it, then everything is fine. I'm NOT 'defending' Bethesda nor the fact that they're still using GameBryo * coughs, clears throat * ...excuse me, I mean Creation Engine (yeah it sounds better, if anything). But at least on PC, and on Ultra settings, the game does NOT look like a PS2 game, for crying out loud. Are people going CRAZY comparing it to PS2-era games? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?

 

metal-gear-solid-2-substance-image263027

 

Were Some of You Even Alive Back Then To Remember What PS2 Games Looked Like ?!

 

In the name of Space Hamster.

 

Anyway, more on-topic... what BioWare can learn from Fallout 4? To be honest, not much (but there's a few things nonetheless). The production quality of BioWare games is - generally speaking - very high. They're not perfect, of course, there's been exceptions (Dragon Age 2, and the obvious rushed ME3 especially towards the end). But really now, with this said, if there's one thing I've learned from Inquisition is that BioWare sure have a LOT to learn about open-world games specifically, especially from Bethesda. We all know that Inquisition 'felt' (pretty much was built) like a mere MMORPG in its regions, there's very little to do and discover (not saying there's nothing, just saying there's really not that much, most maps feel barren of life and rely on triggered events and there's very little in terms of needed exploration to find what there is to discover).

 

I absolutely loved the maps themselves in Inquisition (no sarcasm here), the layout, graphics and style of each one was superbly-crafted (well maybe except that desert Hissing Wastes map... ugh, what a pain), but the content within them was very meager. The few animals 'roaming' around didn't do much on their own (and often spawned right in front on you, like those Fennecs I think they're called), there were no random enemy encounters (all enemies have a fixed spawn point for questing purposes, and they don't interfere with wildlife, or vice versa) and basically everything within Inquisition's regions was in a 'fixed' state (Dragons don't roam around either, they fly in a pre-determined path and go back to their lair/nest), didn't feel alive and breathing (well ok, Hissing Wastes and Exalted Plains didn't exactly needed to be like that due to their setting and context but still... for game-play purposes they're just nearly dead maps), etc. So basically the amount of possible activities to be done and the general replay value of Inquisition maps were just thin enough to allow us to complete our quests, almost like a one-time only venture in them. Sure, we can go back, but once everything is done in each one of them what's left to do? Essentially nothing.

 

But BioWare games have good (or decent) main stories (well most of the time), codexes (backstories), complex lore, superb characters (and their own respective story), great voice acting (that's probably on the top three qualities of BioWare games along with their created companion characters) and well-done cinematic-style scripted scenes. I mean, BioWare games - and this isn't a secret - are great and better at being story-driven and mostly linear. And that's fine, that's how BioWare games should be in my opinion, unless they prove us with Andromeda that they CAN in fact do fun and content-filled open world maps. But until proven otherwise (perhaps Andromeda will be "the one") I can safely say that Bethesda games have much better open worlds. But that's not really fair to say, however, and that's simply because BioWare only had ONE single go at it so far in their entire history (being Inquisition, and no I'm certainly not counting Old Republic for open world maps), when Bethesda are veterans with open world games (Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Skyrim and now Fallout 4, and that's not counting their official expansions and DLCs). So, sure, BioWare should NOT be ashamed or shy from looking at their games to take some (well, many) examples from them. I would even suggest them to go meet Bethesda employees in their studio(s) and have constructive conversations and knowledge exchanges together between fellow games developers (but yeah I know, pride... competition, won't happen).

 

On the other hand, Bethesda could learn from BioWare too (definitely). Most Bethesda games are poorly-written (be it the main story arcs, or side quests, or simply dialogue from random or important NPCs) although each one of their games do have their "moments" (still, all of this is subjective, some really do love everything about their games, fine, to each their own) and certainly DON'T have interesting nor memorable characters, and definitely NOT companions that you'll be talking about for the coming years nor make fan fiction about. Their games are fun to explore and 'mess around with', but they're far from being examples of good story telling and pacing in the gaming industry. But, in my opinion, after playing Fallout 4 for a total of 16 hours so far I can see VERY noticeable improvements in writing AND voice acting (not just variety, but quality... and oh God it was about damn time they managed to do ONE game in their history like this). So it might have taken them nearly 13 years, but they're finally catching up on the big ones out there (such as BioWare) for story (writing) and characters quality (and voice acting, too, as mentioned).

 

So yeah, BioWare can learn (and should take examples of) at least from Fallout 4's open world content. But I DO believe that Andromeda will probably be a good step forward compared to Inquisition. And... Jesus Christ guys, stop comparing Fallout 4's graphics to PS2 games, that's just imbecile.

So much like for your post. You've captured a big reason why DAI was disappointing for many players. This feeds into the comment below

 

LoL I hope that BioWare could start to learn something from their own previous games, rather then to learn something from Bethesda...

Yes, I wish Bio would look at its strengths and what was successful in its previous games rather than trying to mimic other companies. I play Bio games for their strengths, not because I enjoyed Skyrim and want another company to make a game in that style. I would just play Skyrim again.

 

IMO, the biggest take away that Bioware can learn from any Bethesda game is mod-ability.    I would venture to say that Bethesda games in general are only slightly above average in their vanilla form.    However, with their ease of player made mod development and use, they rocket into stellar levels.    A fully modded Skyrim is 100x the game compared to the vanilla release.  

 

I expect Fallout 4 to be similar.   To me, Bethesda releases a shell of a game and a building tool and lets players make their own game tailored to their own likes and dislikes.    As long as they keep that format, I will always buy a Bethesda game because ultimately I know I can make the game the way I like it.  

Modding seems to be a double edged sword. Yes, it would help in replayability (I see DAO posters saying they're still playing the game through mods) and customization, and eliminate features that don't effect gameplay balance but are just disliked. But there's also the risk that if a company knows that players will heavily mod the game, there is less onus on them to create a polished product, as sounds like the case with FO4.



#220
von uber

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Hopefully not much.

 

http://www.rockpaper...-4-pc-review/1/

 

Holding off on this (like Skyrim) until the modders have got hold of it and fixed the game for PC users.



#221
KingofTime

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Fallout 4 has already shipped 12 million worldwide.

http://www.gamespot....y/1100-6432277/

 

Other companies will now try to follow suit and Bethesda/Todd will continue not to give a ****.



#222
Giantdeathrobot

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The weight is the thing that encourages you not to loot everything nailed down.

 

Yet the absurd amount of components required to get the mods you actually want (upgrading Power Armor in particular is costly) ensures that you will be carting around 50-60 lbs of junk, minimum, if you know what's good for you. And some components are rare enough that you are better immediately nab them if you get the opportunity.


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#223
Ahglock

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A couple points.

1. Crafting and the settlement. The game plays fine without it. You don't need to mod guns or armor you don't need to assign workers or have nicely built buildings or fences. You can do basic mods, put up turrets and plant basic crops or you can go into absurd detail. I think it's a solid model. For the people who like overly detailed systems it's there if you don't like it at all you can ignore it, if you are somewhere in between you can dabble. You won't get us much bang as the person who obsessed but you will improve your armor and guns easily enough.

2. Graphics. Yes other games have better graphics. But it's pretty much the only game system that makes most items interactive. You can pick up and physics effect a ridiculous range of items. GTA5 makes the items on the table a background item not something you interact with. Is it worth it? For many people it is. I'd give it up but not for graphics but for more details in the RPG side. And yeah graphics don't matter for some games. This style of RPG is one of those games where graphics are not a focus. It's like bitching about mine crafts graphics.

3. You don't have to like it. It would be nice if people weren't jerks about it. But you don't have to like this game. I hate the witcher that doesn't mean it's a bad game or that others have to hate it with me. Feel free to love or hate the witcher. Like TV, books or movies, people will love and hate different things. 12 million people bought this game already apparently, most of which probably bought previous Bethesda games. For most of them this style of game is there thing, but it's fine if it's not yours. But that's fine just like how for millions of people the game of thrones is awesome while for me it's titilating shock value propping up a story I'm not interested In.

iPhone fun.
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#224
ZombiePopper

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Can someone please explain the appeal of this game? I keep watching videos trying to psych myself up for it, but the game just seems awful.

Brown, brown, and more brown, with some various shades of brown.

The awkward looking combat where you shoot parts of an enemy in slow motion then returns to first person.

Skyrim inventory.

Not very interesting characters/story (from what gameplay I've seen).

The UI is ugly. Just...so ugly.

I'm someone who thought Skyrim was a mediocre game at best. The amount of hype it got confounded me. FO4 seems like a post apocalyptic (my LEAST favorite setting in ANY form of entertainment) Skyrim. Now, my comments may seem like I'm intentionally hating on the game - I'm not. These are observations that I've noticed for me, but I keep trying to watch videos because people seem to enjoy the game. Genuinely, with no sarcasm, can someone please tell me why it's enjoyable?

The "slow motion part shooting" that's VATS, I take it you're unfamiliar with FO3 and FONV. Kind of a "tradition" :)

It is a PA setting, so don't expect butterflies and bright vibrant colors, everything is dead or dying. Hence, brown, brown etc

Characters and story pick-up as you progress into the game further.

But FO4 sounds like it's not a game for you.
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#225
katamuro

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What I wish for them to learn is to learn from their own mistakes and the others and release a game that is not as buggy as a house about to be fumigated. 

Also that despite some people decrying the lack of "graphics"  a lot of people still play it and love it so no need to be the prettiest game. 

Also add mods. Seriously needs mods. I wouldn't even play Skyrim without mods.