51 réponses à ce sujet

[Deerber]

http://forum.bioware...damage-formula/

 

 

What do you mean, "before"?

[Bwnci]

Well if you just look at the thread yourself, you'll see it states that 6b of Tactical Cloak (along with racial bonuses) modifies the base damage of a particular weapon category. I was under the impression that only the ramp-up multipliers and SR hip fire penalty did that. Although it does explain why "Sniper Damage" increases the Kishock's bleed damage.

[Deerber]

Well if you just look at the thread yourself, you'll see it states that 6b of Tactical Cloak (along with racial bonuses) modifies the base damage of a particular weapon category. I was under the impression that only the ramp-up multipliers and SR hip fire penalty did that. Although it does explain why "Sniper Damage" increases the Kishock's bleed damage.

 

You seem to operate under the assumption that I haven't read and studied that very thread enough to write a doctoral thesis about it, probably

I was questioning what you meant by "before" because, commutative property withstanding, none of the factors of a product comes "before", as I see it. And since the way you wrote one post made me believe you already knew that it was a multiplicative bonus, I didn't understand why you were surprised that it comes "before", and didn't get what you meant.

 

Anyway, there are other things that are multiplicative bonuses too. Racial weapon bonuses, for example. Or weapons defense-specific multipliers. And maybe other things I'm forgetting.

[Bwnci]

You seem to operate under the assumption that I haven't read and studied that very thread enough to write a doctoral thesis about it, probably

I was questioning what you meant by "before" because, commutative property withstanding, none of the factors of a product comes "before", as I see it. And since the way you wrote one post made me believe you already knew that it was a multiplicative bonus, I didn't understand why you were surprised that it comes "before", and didn't get what you meant.

 

Anyway, there are other things that are multiplicative bonuses too. Racial weapon bonuses, for example. Or weapons defense-specific multipliers. And maybe other things I'm forgetting.

Ramp ups, debuffs, head shots, piercing... What else am I to assume, when the answer to your question is there in writing? There is definitely an order to these things, thereby creating a "before" position.

[Deerber]

Ramp ups, debuffs, head shots, piercing... What else am I to assume, when the answer to your question is there in writing? There is definitely an order to these things, thereby creating a "before" position.

I would hope I didn't need to mention those.

"Definitely" is a dangerous word, sometimes. Care to explain the order you're talking about?

[Bwnci]

That thread already does, the explaination ought to be apart of your thesis. Armour damage mitigation is calculated before those "defense-specific multipliers" for example.

[Deerber]

That thread already does, the explaination ought to be apart of your thesis. Armour damage mitigation is calculated before those "defense-specific multipliers" for example.

 

Well, obviously if you are talking about different things then the word before might actually apply. Cause in fact, a multiplication can happen before/after a sum.

 

That's not the case for what you were refering to, though, that is, the different kinds of bonuses you can get to your weapon damage. Or I guess if you really wanna be strict about it from a logic point of view, it's the other way around and additive, normal bonuses come "before".

[Bwnci]

Well, obviously if you are talking about different things then the word before might actually apply. Cause in fact, a multiplication can happen before/after a sum.

 

That's not the case for what you were refering to, though, that is, the different kinds of bonuses you can get to your weapon damage. Or I guess if you really wanna be strict about it from a logic point of view, it's the other way around and additive, normal bonuses come "before".

Sure, if you want to be that pedantic. However if you simply note the position of the "Sniper Damage" bonus as I have done, you can learn that it will increase your ammo damage too.

[ROBOTICSUPERMAN]

However if you simply note the position of the "Sniper Damage" bonus as I have done, you can learn that it will increase your ammo damage too.

can it increase the explosive ammo damage past 250? Not sure what point in the equation the cap is introduced,
if it is introduced earlier it could be possible,
if it is the last step then no

[Catastrophy]

Sure, if you want to be that pedantic. However if you simply note the position of the "Sniper Damage" bonus as I have done, you can learn that it will increase your ammo damage too.

Multiplicative goes like this: multiplicative bonus * (ammodmg+baseweapondmg+morestuffdmg). So basically it's a*(b+c+d) = a*b + a*c + a*d. Basic algebra.

[nico_wolf]

Multiplicative goes like this: multiplicative bonus * (ammodmg+baseweapondmg+morestuffdmg). So basically it's a*(b+c+d) = a*b + a*c + a*d. Basic algebra.

 

can it increase the explosive ammo damage past 250? Not sure what point in the equation the cap is introduced,
if it is introduced earlier it could be possible,
if it is the last step then no

 

Explosive Rounds is "ammodmg", ... so due to the facts above it, Tactical Cloak (Sniper 6b) should increase the damage.

 

I should try this Krysae thing with Ex Ammo again.

[Catastrophy]

Explosive Rounds is "ammodmg", ... so due to the facts above it, Tactical Cloak (Sniper 6b) should increase the damage.

 

I should try this Krysae thing with Ex Ammo again.

Yes, but there is a cap on explosive rounds damage to consider.

[Bwnci]

Not all multiplicative bonuses increase ammo damage, head shots for instance, won't I believe. The Sniper Damage evolution will increase the explosion damage per shot, but the explosion will always cap at 250. With or without it, two shots from the Krysae reaches the cap. Explosive rounds are garbage, there's nothing us mere mortals can do to fix that.

[Fuenf789]

Interesting Bwni.
From the responses u got , I guess there are even veterans who have not understood "before",yet . Ammo power damage applied "b4" weapon damage impact . Mmm.

On the sideline - for DR on the weapon damage impact side - for the armor weakening effects (cryo blast , ammo powers, warp, etc) from friendly fire, the formula from Peddro suggests that the weapon damage impact can be reduced (to a minimum on a armor target with friendly fire :

For DRmodifiers =(1-sum_armor_weakening_effects)*(1-sum_armor_piercing_effects)

This suggest to me that even if my weapon cannot pierce armor I can still do considerable damage based on the debuffs from friendly fire . Or?

So coordinated friendly fire does exponential damage... If at least two players have armor debuffs applied.

[Salarian Master Race]

Interesting Bwni.
From the responses u got , I guess there are even veterans who have not understood "before",yet . Ammo power damage applied "b4" weapon damage impact . Mmm.

 

 

I guess even you have not understood how to read, because that's not what the topic was even about. Mmm.

[Deerber]

Interesting Bwni.
From the responses u got , I guess there are even veterans who have not understood "before",yet . Ammo power damage applied "b4" weapon damage impact . Mmm.

 

If there is anyone not understanding the meaning of "before", it's actually him.

 

Regardless, ammo damage comes before weapon damage in the real sense of the word. Not sure what you meant with that.

[Salarian Master Race]

Algebra should be illegal.

 

Though I suppose that is why we have computers.  Then the power grid will explode, all computers will cease to function, and algebra will be a forgotten technology spoken of only in ancient texts and fairy tales.

[Bwnci]

If there is anyone not understanding the meaning of "before", it's actually him.

No, my use of "before" was correct the whole time. You just refused to acknowledge the referenced material to get high and mighty. I believe Fuenf789 just gave another example.

 

That being said; my understanding of the DRmodifiers is that if the sum of armor_weakening effects, or armor_piercing effects equals 100 or more; you can completely ignore armour mitigation. However in combination they are less effective, 50 of armor_weakening and 50 of armor_piercing still leaves 12.5 points of armour on gold or higher. This is because, as the equation notes, the bonuses don't add together; they multiply each other.

 

Armour on gold is equal to 50 points of damage; weakened by 50%, it's reduced to 25. Then pierced by another 50%, it's reduced to 12.5 (50 *0.5 *0.5).

[Bwnci]

*double post

[Deerber]

No, my use of "before" was correct the whole time. You just refused to acknowledge the referenced material to get high and mighty. I believe Fuenf789 just gave another example.

 

Get off your high horse. You were just wrong, it happens to everyone.

[Bwnci]

Get off your high horse. You were just wrong, it happens to everyone.

Some more than others apparently.

[Salarian Master Race]

Some more than others apparently.

 

Your Post to Like Ratio is 1:0.0432.  Please stop before you embarrass yourself.

 

Actually C3PO always puts it Massive Number:1, so I am going to reverse it, and it is now known as a Like to Post Ratio.

 

0.0432:1

 

That looks cleaner, and it has double meaning.  With a Ratio that low, it is obvious that you "like to post", a little bit too much.  Please exercise restraint in the future.

 

The good news is that, with an overall post count as low as yours, there is still time to change your unlikable ways before you do irreversible damage.

[RakhanaBby]

Around 15%-25% weapon damage depending on how far the shot was fired from a vantage point to the enemies' position. (Objects like shields, ramps, and single walls tend to count as penetrable objects.) because, ya know, video game physics and junk.

What I do is either use an already powerful weapon and use a piercing mode there or put the mod on any other weapon and have a weapon amp on my Equipment ready.
 

[Fuenf789]

No, my use of "before" was correct the whole time. You just refused to acknowledge the referenced material to get high and mighty. I believe Fuenf789 just gave another example.

That being said; my understanding of the DRmodifiers is that if the sum of armor_weakening effects, or armor_piercing effects equals 100 or more; you can completely ignore armour mitigation. However in combination they are less effective, 50 of armor_weakening and 50 of armor_piercing still leaves 12.5 points of armour on gold or higher. This is because, as the equation notes, the bonuses don't add together; they multiply each other.

Armour on gold is equal to 50 points of damage; weakened by 50%, it's reduced to 25. Then pierced by another 50%, it's reduced to 12.5 (50 *0.5 *0.5).

Thx bwnci.
Yes, i'm aligned with that calculation for an individual player in mp.

... but the formula also suggests debuffs from friendly fire (I belief)-> "party friendly".
together with armor weakening debuffs (armor piercing from friendlies are excluded). Which suggest that 12.5 Target_ARMOR_DR can be lowered even further if a friendly also apply a power.(on the same enemy)


U also said in you last post "less effective" - but a lower product of [1-sum_armor_weakening_effects] and [1-sum_armor_piercing_effects]
is actually beneficial in this case since it 's subtracted (-Target_ARMOR_DR*) ...

for example :
Actually applied Target_ARMOR_DR
= 50 *((1-(A+C)) *(1-B ))

Where
A = 50% armor weakening
C=30% armor weakening from Friendly debuff
B=50% armor piercing for individual


->Would result in 50*0.2*0.5 =5 target armor damage reduction applied. If calculated correctly ... Similiarly the friendly would also receive damage armor from my applied ammo- thereby leveraging more enemy damage on both sides.


Ps. let's just ignore the chain yankers to reduce clutter.

[Bwnci]

I'm sorry Fuenf789, I don't follow you. I can tell you armour weakening effects work for the team and stack from different sources (or players), whereas armour piercing effects work just for the individual. Ultimately you pierce a percentage of whatever strength, armour exists. I hope that helps, please like my post if it does. As you can imagine, it is of great importance to me.