154 réponses à ce sujet

[Il Divo]

I'd find this convincing if I thought the D&D grid was a useful way to approach these issues. Anyway, even assuming you need your ruleset to encourage this sort of thing, I could throw a dart at my bookshelf and hit a ruleset with a better approach.

 

I guess like others have said, it makes for a good starting point as a character concept. The problem is I don't think game developers ever should have taken that extra step to actually try to tie game mechanics into your alignment rating. 

 

Just for myself, once I'd had enough experience designing new characters, I hardly every bothered with morality ratings. Sure, if I thought about it enough, my characters could broadly fall into an archetype. But ultimately, DnD alignments just became an inhibitor. I'd argue we've seen that all the way back from BG1 all the way up through modern Bioware games, many of my favorites included. 

[EpicNewb]

Make the middle on the fence option more common again.  And if we decide to skip through the dialogue that middle option shouldn't be defaulted to

[Navasha]

I would love to see just more options on the wheel.    Instead of just 3 options (not counting 'investigate' stuff on the left), why not have 5 options per conversation.    A broader range of responses would certainly go a long way toward making your character yours, and not just sort of watching a movie.   

 

Cause let's face it, the way its set up in the past, if you are playing a Paragon, you almost always choose the first option, and occasionally the middle and rarely if ever the 3rd.    Vice versa as well.  

[PhroXenGold]

 

Cause let's face it, the way its set up in the past, if you are playing a Paragon, you almost always choose the first option, and occasionally the middle and rarely if ever the 3rd.    Vice versa as well.  

 

Or you could play a person and not an alignment....

[Sylvius the Mad]

Get rid of it. ME3 Shepard is as near as makes no difference predefined as is. The ability to either agree or impotently express butthurt at something without doing anything about it is exactly the same thing. Action Mode hardly changes the game at all, and is the model they should move forward with in mind. This frees devs from devoting inordinate resources unimportant fluff like "muh choices" and lets them focus on the core aspects of the game, such as its overarching narrative, TPS gameplay mechanics and MP mode.

I'd actually like if they did this.

It would save me the trouble of following development or playing the game.

[Torgette]

I'd actually like if they did this.

It would save me the trouble of following development or playing the game.

 

They could just turn it into a movie.

[KaiserShep]

They could just turn it into a movie.

Then it wouldn't be as interesting. I love movies, but I love story-driven games more, because that one product can give me hours of enjoyment and options as to how I want it to play out.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Then it wouldn't be as interesting. I love movies, but I love story-driven games more, because that one product can give me hours of enjoyment and options as to how I want it to play out.

ME3 didn't give us much in the way of options.

[KaiserShep]

ME3 didn't give us much in the way of options.

Far more than a movie does.

[katamuro]

I liked the ME1 approach to the wheel, a lot more options, you could ask a lot more things. I wan't the dialogue wheel to stay but to add more options to it and more flavours. Because sometimes I wanted to make a tough answer but the renegade option was just evil and the paragon was too idealistic. 

[PhroXenGold]

I liked the ME1 approach to the wheel, a lot more options, you could ask a lot more things. I wan't the dialogue wheel to stay but to add more options to it and more flavours. Because sometimes I wanted to make a tough answer but the renegade option was just evil and the paragon was too idealistic. 

 

I can't think of many times Renegade was outright evil, but there are certainly times when I really wished for some inbetween options - particularly when Paragon was diplomatic and Renegade, was more aggressive. Far too often, I wanted to say something that matched the paragon sentiment but do so in an aggressive manner. The one that really annoyed my was the "Earth First" guy at that demonstration on the Citadel. The Shep I've been playing recent wanted to tell the little racist **** to go **** himself. Yet the only way to say you don't agree with him is to go "Well, I believe in democracy and your right to free speech but I don't support your cause" or some such pretentious crap.

[AlanC9]

I would love to see just more options on the wheel.    Instead of just 3 options (not counting 'investigate' stuff on the left), why not have 5 options per conversation.    A broader range of responses would certainly go a long way toward making your character yours, and not just sort of watching a movie.   

Of course, this would be a big resource sink. That's not really a problem with the idea, but it does mean that something else goes. Maybe length?

[Sylvius the Mad]

Far more than a movie does.

A movie offers only one choice: whether to watch it, or not. If a typical movie is 2 hours long, that's 0.5 choices per hour.

How does ME3 compare?

[Sylvius the Mad]

Of course, this would be a big resource sink. That's not really a problem with the idea, but it does mean that something else goes. Maybe length?

Those words are only a respurce sink because they're voiced.

We should never forget that. Voicing the lines carries a massive cost.

[Quarian Master Race]

A movie offers only one choice: whether to watch it, or not. If a typical movie is 2 hours long, that's 0.5 choices per hour.

How does ME3 compare?

In terms of actual, meaningful choices that cause different outcomes......2, whether or not to play and the ending ( and I think I'm being pretty generous on the second one without EC). No, Genophage and Rannoch conflict don't count. Their result is limited to like 2 NPCs at Hammer base changing and a 2 second long reskin of a scene of which fleet shows up for the final battle (toasters if you pick them, quarians if you pick them or broker ceasefire).

Let's be generous and say that you can speedrun the game in 3 hours and 30 minutes (my best time came in just under that). Even in the most optimal of circumstances as this, the game still barely breaks even with a 1hr45min movie in terms of choices offered. More realistically, it would probably take a quite fast player around 20-25 hours to maximize every piece of content the base game has to offer (visiting every system, planet etc, Watching all cutscenes, Reading all codex entries and War assets. playing a couple hours of MP), making the movie the clear winner.

I could have watched 10+ movies in that time, making far more meaningful choices. 

Action Mode> dialouge wheel (though I don't know of any "wheel" that only has two spokes, so this is a bit of a misnomer).

[Torgette]

Then it wouldn't be as interesting. I love movies, but I love story-driven games more, because that one product can give me hours of enjoyment and options as to how I want it to play out.

 

Those words are only a respurce sink because they're voiced.

We should never forget that. Voicing the lines carries a massive cost.

 

So then make a 40 hour silent movie, and since there's no gameplay that removes a lot of resource sinks as well.

[Sylvius the Mad]

So then make a 40 hour silent movie, and since there's no gameplay that removes a lot of resource sinks as well.

Fritz Lang, Game Developer

[KaiserShep]

A movie offers only one choice: whether to watch it, or not. If a typical movie is 2 hours long, that's 0.5 choices per hour.
How does ME3 compare?

I like you, Sylvius. You always make my brain itch.

[N7Jamaican]

Being able to cancel the conversation is a must. Just like in Fallout 4, where you leave a conversation.

[Iakus]

Being able to cancel the conversation is a must. Just like in Fallout 4, where you leave a conversation.

DAI has this already.

[AlanC9]

In terms of actual, meaningful choices that cause different outcomes......2, whether or not to play and the ending ( and I think I'm being pretty generous on the second one without EC). No, Genophage and Rannoch conflict don't count. Their result is limited to like 2 NPCs at Hammer base changing and a 2 second long reskin of a scene of which fleet shows up for the final battle (toasters if you pick them, quarians if you pick them or broker ceasefire).

So the metric for a meaningful choice has nothing to do with the game-world? It's only how much new content the different choices unlock?

[Quarian Master Race]

So the metric for a meaningful choice has nothing to do with the game-world? It's only how much new content the different choices unlock?

The game world is hardly affected by anything but the endings. Having Major Kirrahe or a Geth Prime standing around at the FOB near the end of the game instead of Wrex/Tali doesn't make a meaningful difference to the story. They're entirely interchangable, with the themes and overall narrative remaining completely intact and largely identical until choosing an ending, where it wildly diverges into 4 outcomes that can be argued to be different (albiet, control and destroy much less so than the other two).

Movies are capable of greater changes than those in directors cuts or re-releases. Greedo shooting first as opposed to Han has a more meaningful effect on the narrative tone of ANH than picking the geth or quarians does in ME3.

[tracesaint]

I thought Deus Ex: Human Revolution had an interesting way of handling how you can interact with people based on their personality type. Maybe we can get an optic upgrade or some other super cool thingy device that allows us to read people beyond just their words.

[Enigmatick]

I thought Deus Ex: Human Revolution had an interesting way of handling how you can interact with people based on their personality type. Maybe we can get an optic upgrade or some other super cool thingy device that allows us to read people beyond just their words.

A brain?

[Zekka]

I it possible for Bioware to implement both the dialogue wheel and the old dialogue line system? Like say, if you went into the games options and switched between both?

Also, would it be possible to just allow the game to mute the main characters dialogue and shut his/her mouth.