127 réponses à ce sujet

[Gaia300]

In this topic i would like to discuss and also try to understand what are the thoughts  on Grey wardens among the fans of the franchise.

 

[Ashagar]

Its a organization that has uses though it a organziation I think heavily reflects its ancient tevinter origins in its tactics and methods. There's just something very roman about their tactics and world view.

[ShadowLordXII]

Still a heroic and likable organization to me. Nothing's changed that.

[nightscrawl]

I think they are too secretive. I don't actually believe that if some of their practices were more commonly known that recruitment would suffer. There are plenty of dangerous professions that continue to see new members. Whether someone is righteous, an adrenaline junkie, the third or fourth child of a noble family (like non-mage Trev Inquisitor), a criminal seeking redemption, an adventurer seeking glory, a poor sod with nothing else to work toward, someone who wants the prospect of a paycheck to send home, a person who wants to make something of themselves when they had no opportunity before, there WILL be people signing up, regardless of the possibility of death in the Joining.

 

The post-Blight time was, and should have been, a great opportunity for recruitment, giving the Wardens fresh blood from sources other than criminals and castoffs. But despite their legendary status, they are quite poor at selling themselves in this way, and are often too aloof to be effective at recruiting people who want to join. And of course now the events in DAI have severely hurt their reputation. But I am quite curious to see how it all evolves in the further games.

[MaxQuartiroli]

I think that the grey wardens, as an organization, have many.... grey areas.

No wonder that many people see them like a "necessary evil" rather than real heroes.. their behaviors are sometimes "questionable" even if everybody know that the ends justify their means.

Moreover, we have yet to know how things really works in the highest ranks of the organization, and what kind of people rule Weisshaupt, therefore I will reserve my judgment until we'll be able to take a peek into their headquarter.

[Qun00]

They are the reason why people are still alive to criticise them.

I think they are too secretive. I don't actually believe that if some of their practices were more commonly known that recruitment would suffer. There are plenty of dangerous professions that continue to see new members. Whether someone is righteous, an adrenaline junkie, the third or fourth child of a noble family (like non-mage Trev Inquisitor), a criminal seeking redemption, an adventurer seeking glory, a poor sod with nothing else to work toward, someone who wants the prospect of a paycheck to send home, a person who wants to make something of themselves when they had no opportunity before, there WILL be people signing up, regardless of the possibility of death in the Joining.
 
The post-Blight time was, and should have been, a great opportunity for recruitment, giving the Wardens fresh blood from sources other than criminals and castoffs. But despite their legendary status, they are quite poor at selling themselves in this way, and are often too aloof to be effective at recruiting people who want to join. And of course now the events in DAI have severely hurt their reputation. But I am quite curious to see how it all evolves in the further games.

The Joining isn't kept a secret just because of the risk of death. Heck, there are plenty of people who know that it's often lethal.

The main reason is that the Chantry would go ape **** on them even though the Grey Wardens aren't true blood mages.

[correctamundo]

They are a tool.

[Snowy-Ninja]

They are useful for fighting blights, but beyond that they are just like any other organization. Broken, corrupt and flawed. Currently they seem to be going through a civil war, something that seemed hinted at during DA:O because some grey wardens like being in charge of the Anderfels. (which they basically rule at this point) Others, seem to believe that should only be fighting the blight. We do need the grey wardens, but they really do need to reform.

 

Without the wardens I don't see how Thedas could cope with fighting the blights, but Solas seems worried that once all the Archdemons are destroyed something worse might happen. So are they really helping? In the short term yes! In the long term we do not know. So without better options we only have the grey wardens to protect Thedas for the time being. Hopefully someone finds a better way of deal with the blights and archdemons soon.

[Dai Grepher]

My Hero of Ferelden never wanted to be a Grey Warden. They have done despicable things in the past in the name of the greater good. Their tactics are foolishly rigid. They lack proper oversight. Defeat the Darkspawn at any cost is a stupid strategy. They need to find better ways to defeat the taint, and they need to be much less secretive.

 

Grey Wardens are not good for much other than surviving the taint and slaying an archdemon.

 

My Hero did not want to be a Warden, but since he is one he figured he may as well improve it. He established the Silver Order to work with and along side the Grey Wardens. They exist to protect the Grey Wardens of Ferelden from themselves and others. They offer a third party perspective. A balancing force to identify and stop any corruption in their ranks. At the same time they respect the individuals who sacrifice for the Grey Warden service. Had the Silver Order been present in more places than just Amaranthine, then perhaps the blood magic atrocities would not have taken place in Orlais.

 

He also had Avernus conduct his research ethically, which shows he is for the advancement of knowledge and magic, but also for traditional moral standards.

 

He does not use the Joining on anyone unless it is necessary. He spared Velanna and Sigrun the Joining, but let them help the Wardens anyway. And now he searches for the cure.

 

He built up Vigil's Keep to its maximum defense, but chose to save Amaranthine when faced with the decision. He believes that Grey Wardens exist to protect the people, not their own self-interests.

 

He's basically trying to turn a wretched organization into a noble one from the inside out.

 

I agree with his sentiments.

[Ferretinabun]

Looking at them from a literary standpoint the wardens are rather... confused.

 

In DA:O I'm pretty sure they were going with a SoIaF 'crows' vibe; ie they were recruited from all walks of life, their old lives forgotten and forsworn. They were supposed to be a motley, ragtag bunch initiated into a... well, if not secret then fairly mysterious, order. Criminals, heretics and outcasts, but fighters one and all, being granted a second chance at a life for the price of eternal vigilance and combat to protect the people.

 

But somehow they've also acquired an air of respectability. Increasingly throughout the series they're hailed as great heroes. They're aspirational; people for children to admire and want to emulate, like an elite chivalric order, noble and good. It's an odd fit.

 

Of course we can easily write it off as the Hero of Ferelden recently reminding people of the Wardens' worth rather than a shift in the writers' artistic vision...

[Cobra's_back]

They had to use blood magic to end the blight. They had many secrets and Cory used that against them. I strongly feel it is time for them to tell all.They also seem to have a problem where their mages. The mages are much more corruptible at least Cory could control them more easily. I would like to see where their civil war leaves them.

[Ghost Gal]

I'm still very partial to them after playing a Grey Warden in DAO, and I think they're still needed in terms of defending and protecting the world (there's still intelligent darkspawn about, and two more Old Gods that can spark two more Blights; and darkspawn themselves will never go away).

 

... but I think their fatal flaw is that they like secrets too much. I think if they were more forthcoming with each other and other people, a lot of problems in this series could have been avoided. If they'd been more open about WHY they're so essential to stopping Blights, it would give doubters like Loghain less reason to think they're full of hot air. If Duncan had been more open with Cailan about what he could sense about the darkspawn, it might have caused him and Loghain to take the Blight more seriously much sooner and Ostagar might have been avoided. Finally, if the Wardens hadn't been so secretive about Corypheus (if they had warned each other that there was an unkillable intelligent ancient darkspawn that could use the taint to control Wardens and even hop bodies), he might not have been able to spring out of his cage and gather Grey Warden lackeys in secret for so long, and/or Wardens might have caught onto his manipulation much sooner, or someone who sensed foul play (like the Warden contact Hawke brings to Skyhold) might have had a bigger trail to follow much sooner.

 

Again, I love the Wardens, but their compulsive secret-keeping seems to have done more harm than good in the long run. They might want to think about being more open and honest in order to not only reclaim lost credibility, but have less secrets for enemies to exploit and be able to help each other (and other people) to  work together to tackle future threats. "United we stand, divided we fall" and all.

[diaspora2k5]

I have no idea, we know nothing about their Weisshaupt branch. Frankly having them spread out across the entire continent of Thedas with probably most of them concentrated in the Anderfels, I don't think any two branches are alike. They've spent the better part of the past 400 years isolated from each other, when Clarel and the Orlesians cut contact with Weisshaupt the First Warden had sent agents across the continent to figure out WTF was happening.

[Qun00]

My Hero of Ferelden never wanted to be a Grey Warden. They have done despicable things in the past in the name of the greater good. Their tactics are foolishly rigid. They lack proper oversight. Defeat the Darkspawn at any cost is a stupid strategy. They need to find better ways to defeat the taint, and they need to be much less secretive.
 
Grey Wardens are not good for much other than surviving the taint and slaying an archdemon.
 
My Hero did not want to be a Warden, but since he is one he figured he may as well improve it. He established the Silver Order to work with and along side the Grey Wardens. They exist to protect the Grey Wardens of Ferelden from themselves and others. They offer a third party perspective. A balancing force to identify and stop any corruption in their ranks. At the same time they respect the individuals who sacrifice for the Grey Warden service. Had the Silver Order been present in more places than just Amaranthine, then perhaps the blood magic atrocities would not have taken place in Orlais.
 
He also had Avernus conduct his research ethically, which shows he is for the advancement of knowledge and magic, but also for traditional moral standards.
 
He does not use the Joining on anyone unless it is necessary. He spared Velanna and Sigrun the Joining, but let them help the Wardens anyway. And now he searches for the cure.
 
He built up Vigil's Keep to its maximum defense, but chose to save Amaranthine when faced with the decision. He believes that Grey Wardens exist to protect the people, not their own self-interests.
 
He's basically trying to turn a wretched organization into a noble one from the inside out.
 
I agree with his sentiments.

Nobody asked you about your characters. Really.

[In Exile]

They are possibly the most suicidally incompetent group in modern fiction. All of their ideas are Cerberus-level fail, on they're the thin line between a horde of rape abominations and the extinction of all life. Not only are the Warden's not even portrayed as heroic, they're not even portrayed as being good at the one thing they exist to do: stopping the darkspawn.

[Dai Grepher]

Nobody asked you about your characters. Really.

 

Well that's rude.

 

Try reading the whole post next time. I stated that I agree with my main character's sentiments. So I did answer the OP.
 

[Gaia300]

Did they do research about their own taint in between blights?

Or do they just wait their calling without doing nothing?

It's rather strange that apparently no one tried to find a cure or to use blood magic like Avernus did,they don't have problems with blood magic.

[Gervaise]

There secrecy has been a major problem.   Recently it may have been because of the Chantry prohibitions against blood magic but they have been around a lot longer than the Chantry and yet people were still in the dark about how they actually end Blights.    Keeping it all so secret is a major problem when you have a situation like Ferelden during the fifth blight, where nearly the entire force has been wiped out and even those left don't know how to conduct a joining and what they actually have to do to kill an archdemon.    You'd think that at least is something that would be shared with every Warden after they had undergone the joining.    Plus if Loghain had known just how essential Grey Wardens were for bringing down an archdemon, may be he would have suggested that Duncan didn't commit his entire company, bar two, to the front line, which were the more ridiculous tactics imaginable.      Their actions over Corypheus were irresponsible too.    They should have had a resident company and a large number of permanent signs warning people not to go too near the prison.   There should have been fail safe procedures so if the resident jailers came under his thrall, the HQ would be alerted to the fact.    They must have kept records on why he was there.    When they got reports the prison was empty, alarm bells should immediately have started to ring.

 

I also think how they keep the families in the dark about what happens to their loved ones who fail the joining is bad.   Nathaniel's family never knew why his relative did not return and he only assumed that it must have been a failed joining after he discovers the truth about it.    They should also have a rule not to take married men with young children if it can be avoided.   Duncan taking the newly married Jordy with a pregnant wife was to my mind despicable but even worse when he murdered him for deciding he couldn't face the joining.   I'm pretty sure if he had told Jordy not to speak of it and then let him go, Jordy would have kept quiet but he should never have been recruited in the first place.  There is some suggestion in the Last Flight that you need to be in the right frame of mind to survive the joining, so on that basis Jordy would have failed anyway because he was having doubts long before Duncan actually presented him with the chalice.

 

There seems no point in making recruits go through the joining between Blights.    The wastage is just too high.    They don't really need their darkspawn sense to find them and a good scout should be able to help avoid them (better actually since the taint actually attracts them).     If a person does become ill through fighting them, then they can be put through the joining because otherwise they are going to die anyway.     That way they would be able to recruit larger numbers of regular soldiers to help keep areas clear of darkspawn incursions and have a ready made force to go through the joining should an archdemon arise.   Again it would seem from Last Flight that the HQ now agrees with this view as they didn't hurry the new mages recruits into taking the joining.   Or may be this was because they had figured out about what was going on in Orlais and they wanted at least some of their number to have clear heads.

 

However, given how long the first blight lasted until the Grey Wardens were created and the history of blights since then, they are necessary until someone comes up with a better way of dealing with the archdemon problem, other than the dark ritual (and even that needs Grey wardens).    The idea of going down to get the remaining old gods before they become corrupted is flawed in that they are likely to draw darkspawn to the location and end up corrupting them anyway.    I think it was  Valta who suggested that a better idea would be to seek out the broodmothers and destroy them.    Then they might also discover the true source of the taint.    Dealing with the problem at source (if possible) is the only long term solution.       Still, the way plot lines are running, I think that is likely to occur soon anyway - finding out where it comes from even if the solution is beyond the hero.    I think it is being strongly hinted that whilst Cory and co may have inadvertently released the darkspawn and got tainted themselves, they were not responsible for its creation.   The darkspawn were there long before (as the dwarves always maintain) having been sealed in by the ancient elves when they realised what was down there.

[Abyss108]

Can't stand them.  

[Serza]

They fight the monsters by taking in a part of them. They can (and will) commit questionable deeds to protect Thedas againist the ultimate evil of the Darkspawn.

 

They are Wardens. They guard the world from a menace few can match. And to do this, sometimes they must do bad things themselves. They are... Grey.

It is impossible to see them in black and white - thus Grey Wardens.

[Serza]

Can't stand them.  

 

Yet there's a Warden in your avatar. I can only too well make out the Griffon on the shield.

[Qun00]

They are possibly the most suicidally incompetent group in modern fiction. All of their ideas are Cerberus-level fail, on they're the thin line between a horde of rape abominations and the extinction of all life. Not only are the Warden's not even portrayed as heroic, they're not even portrayed as being good at the one thing they exist to do: stopping the darkspawn.

They are, however, exceptionally good at making sure that people continue to exist.

[Abyss108]

Yet there's a Warden in your avatar. I can only too well make out the Griffon on the shield.

 

She wasn't a warden by choice.

 

Also, Griffons are cool.

 

Sure would be great if the wardens hadn't killed them...

[Dai Grepher]

They are, however, exceptionally good at making sure that people continue to exist.

 

Except when they kill them.

[IanPolaris]

I wonder why more of you can't recognize character assassination when you see it.  Bioware for whatever reason wants you to dislike the Grey Wardens and so they are handing them the idiot ball liberally (see also Dalish Elves and Rebel Mages).

 

I am amazed so many of you are falling for it.