To put to it simply, they are a despicable, irredeemable, and rotten to the very core lot. No price is too high and life means little to nothing for them.
And yet, we need them. Without a better option, they need to stay around when the blight comes. The very definition of a necessary evil.
a lot of problems in this series could have been avoided. If they'd been more open about WHY they're so essential to stopping Blights, it would give doubters like Loghain less reason to think they're full of hot air.
Oh come on, you among all giving excuses to Loghain! you know you don't believe that.
I'm still very partial to them after playing a Grey Warden in DAO, and I think they're still needed in terms of defending and protecting the world (there's still intelligent darkspawn about, and two more Old Gods that can spark two more Blights; and darkspawn themselves will never go away).
... but I think their fatal flaw is that they like secrets too much. I think if they were more forthcoming with each other and other people, a lot of problems in this series could have been avoided. If they'd been more open about WHY they're so essential to stopping Blights, it would give doubters like Loghain less reason to think they're full of hot air. If Duncan had been more open with Cailan about what he could sense about the darkspawn, it might have caused him and Loghain to take the Blight more seriously much sooner and Ostagar might have been avoided. Finally, if the Wardens hadn't been so secretive about Corypheus (if they had warned each other that there was an unkillable intelligent ancient darkspawn that could use the taint to control Wardens and even hop bodies), he might not have been able to spring out of his cage and gather Grey Warden lackeys in secret for so long, and/or Wardens might have caught onto his manipulation much sooner, or someone who sensed foul play (like the Warden contact Hawke brings to Skyhold) might have had a bigger trail to follow much sooner.
Again, I love the Wardens, but their compulsive secret-keeping seems to have done more harm than good in the long run. They might want to think about being more open and honest in order to not only reclaim lost credibility, but have less secrets for enemies to exploit and be able to help each other (and other people) to work together to tackle future threats. "United we stand, divided we fall" and all.
I've always been skeptical of the idea that that being open about why they are essential to defeating Blights would lead to greater trust of them.
So, Mr. Warden. You initiate others into your group by having them deliberate infect themselves with the Blight and this puts you into mental contact with the Archdemon do you? You can read it's mind and it can read yours? This link draws you together? And the real difference between you and other blighted people is that the spread of your transformation is slower but eventually you will succumb to it? And when you do, you are drawn underground like the darkspawn by the call of the Old Gods? Tell me, given that you are infected with the blight...is it possible that contact with your bodily fluids can infect others in turn?
I guess to each their own, my favorite organization so far is the seekers, something about how all they had to do was step out of the shadows and they struck fear into both templars and mages by their mere presence, not to mention the whole immunity to blood magic and demonic possession thing they had going.
Except when they kill them.
I wonder why more of you can't recognize character assassination when you see it. Bioware for whatever reason wants you to dislike the Grey Wardens and so they are handing them the idiot ball liberally (see also Dalish Elves and Rebel Mages).
I am amazed so many of you are falling for it.
I already saw that when they shanked Jory. I bet his baby son grows up to be like Arl Howe.
I've always been skeptical of the idea that that being open about why they are essential to defeating Blights would lead to greater trust of them.
I have wondered that myself and i think it's because it's fact we've already dealt with in origins beside the established power fantasy theme surrounding them in origins, and it's cool and worked for them perfectly so why bother.
"Their secretive" has become some kind of slogan here on the bsn at every thread concerning the wardens and folks seem to like the theory,so it has become a given.
There is an old argument, how they ae created? If an Archdemon blood is needed for the Joining..
i. who kill the first Archdemon to get the blood?
ii. how do they know they need the blood?
iii. how they defeat The Blight without being Grey Wardens?
iv. when do they realized they need the blood for the Joining?
v. who was the first Grey Warden?
vi. how many try and error failed before they get it right?
The world nearly anihilated as the history says, but suddenly there are Grey Wardens who save the day....there is something fishy about it, like it is all have been planned from the begining. The Blight is planned, the creation of Grey Wardens also planned.
They need Mages to prepare for the Joining anyway....in Ostagar only 7 Mages was there...i am not sure Duncan mention the Circle Mages or Grey Warden Mages, i don't see any Grey Warden mages in Ostagar, if it was Circle Mages then the Circle Mages know how to prepare the blood for the Joining...this even make "there is something wrong somewhere..."
There is an old argument, how they ae created? If an Archdemon blood is needed for the Joining..
i. who kill the first Archdemon to get the blood?
ii. how do they know they need the blood?
iii. how they defeat The Blight without being Grey Wardens?
iv. when do they realized they need the blood for the Joining?
v. who was the first Grey Warden?
vi. how many try and error failed before they get it right?
The world nearly anihilated as the history says, but suddenly there are Grey Wardens who save the day....there is something fishy about it, like it is all have been planned from the begining. The Blight is planned, the creation of Grey Wardens also planned.
They need Mages to prepare for the Joining anyway....in Ostagar only 7 Mages was there...i am not sure Duncan mention the Circle Mages or Grey Warden Mages, i don't see any Grey Warden mages in Ostagar, if it was Circle Mages then the Circle Mages know how to prepare the blood for the Joining...this even make "there is something wrong somewhere..."
I suspect someone in the original Warden lineup might've had some clerics or something that knew of or witnessed the original mistake of their high priests. Tevinter went in chaos afterwards and many turned against the Old Gods. I'm sure some of them saw something from the start.
So mage knowledge/blood magic and also knowing the source of it all.
Also, blood mages in general seem to be an experimental lot. Every one of them is a mad scientist and comes up with innovative problem solving. lol. Quentin, Avernus, Tarohne, Garahel's sister, etc..
Well all the original wardens were Tevinter solders and mages so I expect they did know a number of things, for instance we know they know where all the old gods are imprisoned but can't get at them because of the countless thousands of darkspawn blocking the way. Its unlikely though that any of the wardens outside of their headquarters inner circle likely knows most of those secrets.
I'd read a novel of that actually. They wouldn't need to get too much into Magister perspective or anything.. I'd just like to hear the story on the ground.
I suspect someone in the original Warden lineup might've had some clerics or something that knew of or witnessed the original mistake of their high priests. Tevinter went in chaos afterwards and many turned against the Old Gods. I'm sure some of them saw something from the start.
So mage knowledge/blood magic and also knowing the source of it all.
Also, blood mages in general seem to be an experimental lot. Every one of them is a mad scientist and comes up with innovative problem solving. lol. Quentin, Avernus, Tarohne, Garahel's sister, etc..
I don't think they have enough time to conduct experiments seeing how rapidly The Blight could consume a nation in the Fifth Blight. Yes it was The Architect doing but still a Blight could spread that fast, in one year the whole Ferelden could be consumed by The Blight
The First Blight should be a shocking one, it create panic and terror to everyone, i don't think anyone could think properly to conduct experiments, drinking Darkspawn blood seems like a desperate measure, and i believe many died in doing so. Who come out with the idea "hey, maybe we need the Archdemon blood?", "alright lets go get the blood!"
Even so, there is no guarantee, why would someone continuously drinking the Darkspawn blood plus Archdemon blood after seeing many fall down dead drinking it? Unless they sure it will work, they would just abandon that crazy idea.
I don't think they have enough time to conduct experiments seeing how rapidly The Blight could consume a nation in the Fifth Blight. Yes it was The Architect doing but still a Blight could spread that fast, in one year the whole Ferelden could be consumed by The Blight
The First Blight should be a shocking one, it create panic and terror to everyone, i don't think anyone could think properly to conduct experiments, drinking Darkspawn blood seems like a desperate measure, and i believe many died in doing so. Who come out with the idea "hey, maybe we need the Archdemon blood?", "alright lets go get the blood!"
Even so, there is no guarantee, why would someone continuously drinking the blood plus archdemon blood after seeing many fall down dead drinking it? Unless they sure it will work, they would just abandon that crazy idea.
It might've been accident at first too. Then studied and perfected. I don't know...
I often wonder how people discovered weed, for example. Probably the same thing. Accident. It fell in a fire. Then people partied and had the munchies afterwards.
Given they killed the first archdemon repeatedly any he simply pulled a corypheus and popped up again later they likely didn't have a lack of Arch-demon blood.
It might've been accident at first too. Someone accidentally consumes blood, and then hears the dragon and the darkspawn. Later others perfect it.
I often wonder how people discovered weed, for example. Probably the same thing. Accident. It fell in a fire. Then people partied and had the munchies afterwards.
The question is, how they manage to get the Archdemon blood?
This question is the same question as...we need tools to create tools, what tools create the tools to create tools?
There is an old argument, how they ae created? If an Archdemon blood is needed for the Joining..
i. who kill the first Archdemon to get the blood?
ii. how do they know they need the blood?
iii. how they defeat The Blight without being Grey Wardens?
iv. when do they realized they need the blood for the Joining?
v. who was the first Grey Warden?
vi. how many try and error failed before they get it right?
The world nearly anihilated as the history says, but suddenly there are Grey Wardens who save the day....there is something fishy about it, like it is all have been planned from the begining. The Blight is planned, the creation of Grey Wardens also planned.
They need Mages to prepare for the Joining anyway....in Ostagar only 7 Mages was there...i am not sure Duncan mention the Circle Mages or Grey Warden Mages, i don't see any Grey Warden mages in Ostagar, if it was Circle Mages then the Circle Mages know how to prepare the blood for the Joining...this even make "there is something wrong somewhere..."
Most of your questions are all answered in origins.
There were created by Imperium soldiers during a meeting at Weisshaupt in the Anderfels.
Anders killed Dumat several times and wardens acquired his blood but he kept rising.
They didn't knew they needed the blood, they drank at as they thought it will increase their powers.
They didn't defeat the blight without being grey wardens, every blight was defeated by the grey wardens.
By drinking the blood as suggested by Nakiri as a tradition, they came to fully understanding it's potential and thus the joining became their ritual of choice.
i don't know of the first warden probably some Tevinter general.
Most of their tries and errors are during the first blight as they were newly formed.
Duncan mentioned that he had the circle of magi preparing the ritual if i recall correctly, probably he didn't tell them what it was for.
The question is, how they manage to get the Archdemon blood?
This question is the same question as...we need tools to create tools, what tools create the tools to create tools?
Does the Archdemon need to be dead? This battle went on for hundreds of years... maybe they bled him at some point. And some pesky mage put two and two together and saved it. It's odd, I admit...
Most of your questions are all answered in origins.
There were created by Imperium soldiers during a meeting at Weisshaupt in the Anderfels.
Anders killed Dumat several times and wardens acquired his blood but he kept rising.
They didn't knew they needed the blood, they drank at as they thought it will increase their powers.
They didn't defeat the blight without being grey wardens, every blight was defeated by the grey wardens.
By drinking the blood as suggested by Nakiri as a tradition, they came to fully understanding it's potential and thus the joining became their ritual of choice.
i don't know of the first warden probably some Tevinter general.
Most of their tries and errors are during the first blight as they were newly formed.
Duncan mentioned that he had the circle of magi preparing the ritual if i recall correctly, probably he didn't tell them what it was for.
Well, crap. There we go. I missed this bit of lore, all of these years.
Well, crap. There we go. I missed this bit of lore, all of these years.
I keep up with the grey ones, they're the main highlight of the game fore me, even though Hawke and Quizzy aren't wardens I like to pretend otherwise 
.
Most of your questions are all answered in origins.
There were created by Imperium soldiers during a meeting at Weisshaupt in the Anderfels.
Anders killed Dumat several times and wardens acquired his blood but he kept rising.
They didn't knew they needed the blood, they drank at as they thought it will increase their powers.
They didn't defeat the blight without being grey wardens, every blight was defeated by the grey wardens.
By drinking the blood as suggested by Nakiri as a tradition, they came to fully understanding it's potential and thus the joining became their ritual of choice.
But, you need certain things to prepare the blood, lyrium and some stuff, drinking the blood alone don't give any effect other than kill you i think.
What makes you a Grey Warden is not just by drinking tainted blood but tainted blood plus Archdemon blood and some stuff, these additive stuff which makes the taint grow slowly and not makes you become like Ruck, it maintain your sanity
If there are wardens before they perfecting the stuff, they would end up become like Ruck and become useless
The first AD was supposedly killed by the Dwarves's Golems this according to Branka.
As far as the Greys.. Their secrete is known by many people including Morrigan, Leliana, Queen Anora, Flemeth.
But, you need certain things to prepare the blood, lyrium and some stuff, drinking the blood alone don't give any effect other than kill you i think.
What makes you a Grey Warden is not just by drinking tainted blood but tainted blood plus Archdemon blood and some stuff, these additive stuff which makes the taint grow slowly and not makes you become like Ruck, it maintain your sanity
If there are wardens before they perfecting the stuff, they would end up become like Ruck and become useless
And drinking all those could kill you too, not all survive the joining.
The Lyrium using for the joining came later, the first wardens didn't use it in their joining, they noticed that it improved their abilities and began including it to the joining.
Wardens use a measured dose of the blood for the purpose of not becoming ghouls. Ruck on the other hand feasted on darkspawn all day long.
Check this thread you might find it informative. http://forum.bioware...erelden/#576564
I guess to each their own, my favorite organization so far is the seekers, something about how all they had to do was step out of the shadows and they struck fear into both templars and mages by their mere presence, not to mention the whole immunity to blood magic and demonic possession thing they had going.
That's odd considering that if any one organization is primarily at fault for not only the mage rebellion but the horrid mistreatment of mages for almost a thousand years AND had the market cornered on hypocrisy, it's the Seekers of Truth....and every last member of that organization (including Cassandra) is an abomination.
They are interesting in that they both play straight and avert Solas's theory about how organizations will inevitably become corrupt.
On the one hand, they do end up being overly secretive (as in, within the organization itself), and have a truly massive martyrdom complex that ends up making them easy to manipulate and prone to needlessly draconian measures like the plan in Inquisition.
On the other hand, they definitely keep their eyes on the prize. Unlike, say, the Night's Watch in ASOIAF, they have held true to their original purpose as watch dogs against Darkspawn for hundreds of years, apart from outliers like Dryden and her rebellion. They have managed to stop all five Blights and thus save Thedas five times.
So I wouldn't say they are needless or outdated at all. It's just that they seem much less useful when a Blight isn't happening, including to themselves so they have a tendency to overcompensate.
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