Since your argument is, at its core, all about your feelings, could you get into those feelings a bit? Why and how does skepticism destroy imagination? This hasn't been true in my life, and I don't see why it should be true for anyone. But you're the one who's feeling this, so maybe you can explain it to me?
If you keep searching for tiny wires and strings, hidden panel and switches, the show will not be fun anymore, but if you just watch and say "wow! It's magic!", you will enjoyed it
Do you understand that figuring out how something works takes more imagination the pure belief?If you keep searching for tiny wires and strings, hidden panel and switches, the show will not be fun anymore, but if you just watch and say "wow! It's magic!", you will enjoyed it
https://www.youtube....h?v=pVmp1cc2Wxo
Do you understand that figuring out how something works takes more imagination the pure belief?
When you search for reason, that's science. If you just believe, it's magic/religion
That isn't an actual argument. Why does it matter which world the energy comes from?
This has nothing to do with how magic works in Thedas.
Except that's the first thing we learn from Valor... we think we have a staff, we have a staff.
We don't know how magic works on Thedas... at all... except for all the things people make up as their head canon to call it "science".
D&D - wizards are scientists of the arcane... sorcerers are artists of arcane forces. Mages in DA... are FAR more like D&D sorcerers. (and even THAT is a weak distinction - since any "science" that can work purely on feeling... couldn't possibly be measurable.)
That's oversimplifying things, to say the least.When you search for reason, that's science. If you just believe, it's magic/religion
That's oversimplifying things, to say the least.
It definitely isn't true in a setting like this where magic can be researched and its workings predicted. Magic in those setting doesn't require belief, it is an undeniably real and tangible phenomenon.
This below is science, not magic, because we know the reason behind what happen, it can be explained through physic and chemistry.
Do you BELIEVE in magic/miracle?
Hard "rules" of Thedosian magic:
- You can't teleport.... but you can make an ILLUSION that allows you to move from one place to the other in the blink of an eye.
- You can't cheat death.... unless you're an ancient elf named Mythal or Solas... or a darkspawn magister... or potentially Avernus - or whatever other means of "effective immortality" exist.
- The magisters would have had to have unbelievable amounts of lyrium to breach the Fade for seven of them... but Jowan needs just "a bunch". Instead of lyrium... they slaughtered thousands to get in bodily... Jowan... just killed one obnoxious Orlesian and that seems to do the trick.
- Golems are terrifying things to create with the anvil of the void... pouring molten lyrium into a vessel containing a dwarf.... unless, you're Shale... and then you can get crystals... how does that work? Who knows?! The point is... Shale is cool.
- The Urn of Sacred Ashes... lyrium seems to be very compassionate to human messianic martyrs. It creates not only healing ashes instead of... oh... ANY other type of ashes imaginable... but it ALSO creates a whole experience devoted to Andraste... cause.. wtf not? One would think lyrium would do this all the time across Thedas... and yet, nope... just for YOU Andraste.
- Spirits have no imagination... they have no ambition... they don't change, until they totally change... like all the time. But, good thing they can't come into Thedas... until, yeah... they're all over Thedas. But, demons love inhabiting mortal bodies... until, why make abominations (or Sylvan or undead) ever again - when we can just become scared mage boys locked away in a dungeon?
- Can't reverse tranquility... until you can, and we always knew you could! And... umm.. that's how we make Seekers... because Tranquility can happen without you knowing it during a year long prayer retreat... what?
- Hedge mages... mages that just make up magic as they go producing unique results Circle mages cannot reproduce.
- Oh, and now we have "sending stones" because.. why not? But.. only one... and we're not going to study it - we're going to put it in Calpernia's house so she can have it back. Cause... everyone walking around with a sending stone in their pocket would be mass producible and revolutionize Thedas... but - it's not a science so these are rare and mysterious items.
A lot of unique circumstances - and one shot wonders - for a reliable, predictable, reproducible "science".
Perhaps this is something of an overly simplified answer, but I've always just assumed that mages in Dragon Age were more like reality warpers harassing the changeability of the Fade than practitioners of an any form of the scientific method. For instance, when Solas casts a fireball he isn't drawing on some patterned spell that was learned through formula, but instead using his willpower and imagination to force fire to erupt from his staff.
It's sort of like how Cole makes you think of water when your trapped in the Fade by the Envy Demon.
All that simply means that the fundamental working of magic are a bit more complicated than they might first appear. I could make a similar list for physical phenomena (esp in Particle Physics and Astro-Physics), to argue (incorrectly) that there is simply no way that "science" can be used to understand and explain aspects of our universe in real life.
Look at this guy, although the title says trick, nevermind about that, the only fun way to enjoy his performance is by believing in magic. There is no need to find out how he perform it, no need to slow down the video frame by frame investigating how he hide all those things behind his hands or T-Shirt, we don't need science to explain his work. Scepticism will destroy the fun. And i BELIEVE this guy is performing magic and it is amazingly done.
Look at this guy, although the title says trick, nevermind about that, the only fun way to enjoy his performance is by believing in magic.
Well I don't believe in magic so clearly I couldn't enjoy it.
Well I don't believe in magic so clearly I couldn't enjoy it.
Too bad then...
If you keep searching for tiny wires and strings, hidden panel and switches, the show will not be fun anymore, but if you just watch and say "wow! It's magic!", you will enjoyed it
I wouldn't say that. There are a lot of people who find entertainment in problem solving, so for them figuring out a magician's trick is enjoyable for them.
Scientific theories or "laws" get proven wrong, doesn't mean there aren't any rules.Hard "rules" of Thedosian magic:
- You can't teleport.... but you can make an ILLUSION that allows you to move from one place to the other in the blink of an eye.
- You can't cheat death.... unless you're an ancient elf named Mythal or Solas... or a darkspawn magister... or potentially Avernus - or whatever other means of "effective immortality" exist.
- The magisters would have had to have unbelievable amounts of lyrium to breach the Fade for seven of them... but Jowan needs just "a bunch". Instead of lyrium... they slaughtered thousands to get in bodily... Jowan... just killed one obnoxious Orlesian and that seems to do the trick.
- Golems are terrifying things to create with the anvil of the void... pouring molten lyrium into a vessel containing a dwarf.... unless, you're Shale... and then you can get crystals... how does that work? Who knows?! The point is... Shale is cool.
- The Urn of Sacred Ashes... lyrium seems to be very compassionate to human messianic martyrs. It creates not only healing ashes instead of... oh... ANY other type of ashes imaginable... but it ALSO creates a whole experience devoted to Andraste... cause.. wtf not? One would think lyrium would do this all the time across Thedas... and yet, nope... just for YOU Andraste.
- Spirits have no imagination... they have no ambition... they don't change, until they totally change... like all the time. But, good thing they can't come into Thedas... until, yeah... they're all over Thedas. But, demons love inhabiting mortal bodies... until, why make abominations (or Sylvan or undead) ever again - when we can just become scared mage boys locked away in a dungeon?
- Can't reverse tranquility... until you can, and we always knew you could! And... umm.. that's how we make Seekers... because Tranquility can happen without you knowing it during a year long prayer retreat... what?
- Hedge mages... mages that just make up magic as they go producing unique results Circle mages cannot reproduce.
- Oh, and now we have "sending stones" because.. why not? But.. only one... and we're not going to study it - we're going to put it in Calpernia's house so she can have it back. Cause... everyone walking around with a sending stone in their pocket would be mass producible and revolutionize Thedas... but - it's not a science so these are rare and mysterious items.
A lot of unique circumstances - and one shot wonders - for a reliable, predictable, reproducible "science".
So you're telling me Thedosian magic is actually a bunch of smoke and mirrors covering up perfectly mundane tricks?This below is science, not magic, because we know the reason behind what happen, it can be explained through physic and chemistry.
Do you BELIEVE in magic/miracle?
So you're telling me Thedosian magic is actually a bunch of smoke and mirrors covering up perfectly mundane tricks?
Real world magic tricks =\= Thedas magic
Do you believe Jesus can walk on water, or you believe it is all just a trick from Jesus to fool his followers?
You can try to find sceientific approach to understand Jesus miracles, you may theorize that there is high composition of salt in the water, Jesus manage to balance himself enable him to walk on it. (Just a note, Dead Sea water have high salt making enything float on it, so it is possible there are other waters like this).
If you theorize such, means you don't believe in Jesus miracle....
That's why science and religion cannot mix.
What does any of that have to do with what I said about magic in Thedas?Do you believe Jesus can walk on water, or you believe it is all just a trick from Jesus to fool his followers?
You can try to find sceientific approach to understand Jesus miracles, you may theorize that there is high composition of salt in the water, Jesus manage to balance himself enable him to walk on it. (Just a note, Dead Sea water have high salt making enything float on it, so it is possible there are other waters like this).
If you theorize such, means you don't believe in Jesus miracle....
That's why science and religion cannot mix.
Do you believe Jesus can walk on water, or you believe it is all just a trick from Jesus to fool his followers?
You can try to find sceientific approach to understand Jesus miracles, you may theorize that there is high composition of salt in the water, Jesus manage to balance himself enable him to walk on it. (Just a note, Dead Sea water have high salt making enything float on it, so it is possible there are other waters like this).
If you theorize such, means you don't believe in Jesus miracle....
That's why science and religion cannot mix.
Religion and magic aren't the same thing. Magic is a much broader term.
Which of course has nothing to do with Thedas where there is no particular reason to believe that any religion is valid.
Sacred Ashes is science or magic/miracle?
What does any of that have to do with what I said about magic in Thedas?
You know, the thing this thread is about?
Everything, what define magic/miracle and science in Thedas?
If miracle is something you can explain scientifically, then it is not a miracle, it's science
if you try to find reasoning behind magic/miracle, means you don't believe and have no faith in magic/religion.
Sacred Ashes is science or magic/miracle?
Answer hazy. Ask again later.
Seriously we don't know. There might be a perfectly reasonable explanation for the Temple of Sacred Ashes (Oghren comments on the copious amounts of Lyrium present for starts). We simply don't have enough info.
Answer hazy. Ask again later.
Seriously we don't know. There might be a perfectly reasonable explanation for the Temple of Sacred Ashes (Oghren comments on the copious amounts of Lyrium present for starts). We simply don't have enough info.
Religious people BELIEVE it is a miracle
Sceptics debunk that saying "lyrium have something to do with it" (by using Ogren dialogue)
A: I believe it is a miracle from God!
B: Nay, it's chemistry you bloody fool!
Is it too late for popcorn?
Please get this through your head and stop trying to force Thedas' magic into the real world.Everything, what define magic/miracle and science in Thedas?
If miracle is something you can explain scientifically, then it is not a miracle, it's science
if you try to find reason behind magic/miracle, means you don't believe and have no faith in magic/religion.
Again i repeat, science is reasoning, religion/magic is belief
This is why guns should not be in Dragon Age, because science will destroy religion/magic, it will not be fun anymore
Scepticism destroy imagination, destroy your childhood...
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