123 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Except that's the first thing we learn from Valor... we think we have a staff, we have a staff.

We don't know how magic works on Thedas... at all... except for all the things people make up as their head canon to call it "science".

Valor tells you a rule. That rule works. The Fade works one way, but Thedas works another way. How is this something that can't be studied via scientific method?

D&D - wizards are scientists of the arcane... sorcerers are artists of arcane forces. Mages in DA... are FAR more like D&D sorcerers. (and even THAT is a weak distinction - since any "science" that can work purely on feeling... couldn't possibly be measurable.)

Except that it doesn't actually work that way in-game, and none of the lore supports it working that way.

[BronzTrooper]

Again i repeat, science is reasoning, religion/magic is belief

 

This is why guns should not be in Dragon Age, because science will destroy religion/magic, it will not be fun anymore

 

Scepticism destroy imagination, destroy your childhood...

 

* runs out to buy more popcorn *

[Heimdall]

Again i repeat, science is reasoning, religion/magic is belief
 
This is why guns should not be in Dragon Age, because science will destroy religion/magic, it will not be fun anymore
 
Scepticism destroy imagination, destroy your childhood...

Repeating it does not make it so.

Why are you unwilling to concede that magic means something different in Thedas than it does in real life?

[AlanC9]

Again i repeat, science is reasoning, religion/magic is belief

You keep saying that, and it's wrong every time. Magic, unlike faith, is an observable, provable fact in Thedas. Belief has nothing to do with whether or not a flame rune will cause your sword to burn someone. It just will.

Sten actually has some dialogue about this. "Magic is simply a part of this world. One might as well oppose the sky."

This is why guns should not be in Dragon Age, because science will destroy religion/magic, it will not be fun anymore

Scepticism destroy imagination, destroy your childhood...

The people in Thedas don't need to use imagination to accept magic, because they have real, working magic. If I'm playing a character in Thedas, I'm going to adopt the same attitude. As for childhood, I'm not playing a child.

[IanPolaris]

Again i repeat, science is reasoning, religion/magic is belief

 

This is why guns should not be in Dragon Age, because science will destroy religion/magic, it will not be fun anymore

 

Scepticism destroy imagination, destroy your childhood...

 

Some of the least imaginative people in Thedas are members of Orzammar's Smith cast (Dagna's father is a good example), but they accept and use magic quite happily especially when it comes to rune-crafting.   The point is that in Thedas magic both as spells and as runes/items is a proven and verifiable FACT.  Imagination has nothing to do with it.

[Qis]

I am not talking about game character imagination, i am talking about OUR imagination

 

So, you guys confuse my statements all these time or just....?

 

I want to be in a world of magic and miracles, i don't want to be in the world where magic and miracles can be contested by scientific explanation, i don't have to play a game for that, our real life is like that already

 

Like watching magic show, what is fun if a guy next to you say "do you see the thin wire on the stage?", i don't want to hear that, i just want to watch magic

 

Similar with Sacred Ashes, "err, it's not miracle, it's lyrium", what fun is that?

 

Scepticism is not fun

[Ieldra]

I am not talking about game character imagination, i am talking about OUR imagination

 

So, you guys confuse my statements all these time or just....?

 

I want to be in a world of magic and miracles, i don't want to be in the world where magic and miracles can be contested by scientific explanation, i don't have to play a game for that, our real life is like that already

 

Like watching magic show, what is fun if a guy next to you say "do you see the thin wire on the stage?"

 

Similar with Sacred Ashes, "err, it's not miracle, it's lyrium", what fun is that?

 

Scepticism is not fun

 

So this is a problem of how the presentation of the world matches your preferences?

 

Well, with regard to magic (as opposed to miracles and faith), it's clear that there is no match. This is a world where Dorian can ask "How does that work, exactly?" and laugh as he finds you don't know, and where Tevinter mages did systematic experimentation in order to develop new spells - again, see Dorian's remarks about time magic. This is a clearly technical approach to the problem.

 

With regard to faith and mysteries, the match is as close as you want it to be: both with regard to the events in the Temple of the Sacred Ashes in DAO as well as to the Inquisitor and the entity you meet in the Fade, you're always free to see the hand of providence in those events, and the story explicitly supports both acceptance of the intrinsically mysterious and attempts to deconstruct it.

 

BTW, I find skepticism is very enjoyable and when watching magic shows, the question "How the heck did they do this?" is always in my mind. For me, deciphering mysteries is one of the most enjoyable and engaging activities I can imagine. Acceptance is boring. If you accept a miracle at face value, it ends there. If you ask the question "How did that happen", you're engaging your imagination and your critical faculties - both essential activities of the human mind. You can postulate "lyrium did it" but that only leads to more questions, and if you follow those you're getting to a better understanding of aspects of the world. I find that *way* more interesting than "The Maker did it. Case closed." Also, understanding doesn't necessarily destroy my sense of wonder. In fact, it may increase it, and even human achievements can evoke a sense of wonder. You're using devices of information technology every day, but only if you understand what happens when you do will you appreciate how utterly awesome that technology actually is. We manipulate energy with unprecedented precision and a speed unmatched by anything life processes can do on their own, and our communication systems work with a precision that requires general relativity to calculate.

 

Sense of wonder is an attitude. If you find something fascinating that triggers your imagination, then it's your choice to let it be destroyed by understanding. 

[leaguer of one]

When you search for reason, that's science. If you just believe, it's magic/religion

No.magic can have reason.

[leaguer of one]

When you search for reason, that's science. If you just believe, it's magic/religion

No.magic can have reason.

This below is science, not magic, because we know the reason behind what happen, it can be explained through physic and chemistry.
 
Do you BELIEVE in magic/miracle?
 
https://www.youtube....h?v=HQx5Be9g16U

And magic in thadus can be explain as another force of nature.

[In Exile]

Some of the least imaginative people in Thedas are members of Orzammar's Smith cast (Dagna's father is a good example), but they accept and use magic quite happily especially when it comes to rune-crafting.   The point is that in Thedas magic both as spells and as runes/items is a proven and verifiable FACT.  Imagination has nothing to do with it.

 

It's just "natural magic" in the precursor to science sense. The difference is that all of the subfields are real, rather than just some of them. 

[leaguer of one]

I am not talking about game character imagination, i am talking about OUR imagination
 
So, you guys confuse my statements all these time or just....?
 
I want to be in a world of magic and miracles, i don't want to be in the world where magic and miracles can be contested by scientific explanation, i don't have to play a game for that, our real life is like that already
 
Like watching magic show, what is fun if a guy next to you say "do you see the thin wire on the stage?", i don't want to hear that, i just want to watch magic
 
Similar with Sacred Ashes, "err, it's not miracle, it's lyrium", what fun is that?
 
Scepticism is not fun

That does not matter. Imagination is an abstract consept. It has nothing to do with making magic, just how its used. Magic in thadus is based of source and reaction. As long as it has that it can be explained. If it can be explain then it can be studied as a science.

[Heimdall]

I am not talking about game character imagination, i am talking about OUR imagination
 
So, you guys confuse my statements all these time or just....?
 
I want to be in a world of magic and miracles, i don't want to be in the world where magic and miracles can be contested by scientific explanation, i don't have to play a game for that, our real life is like that already
 
Like watching magic show, what is fun if a guy next to you say "do you see the thin wire on the stage?", i don't want to hear that, i just want to watch magic
 
Similar with Sacred Ashes, "err, it's not miracle, it's lyrium", what fun is that?
 
Scepticism is not fun

Really? Because speculating about how a magic trick was done is part of the fun for me. Skepticism isn't the same thing as cynicism.

But that doesn't apply in Dragon Age. The magic there isn't a trick.

[Qis]

Alright, if you guys love such approach in Dragon Age universe....i better play Dark Souls, because in Dark Souls, magic is magic, miracle is miracle and science is science, they don't mix all up...i understand Sorcery is from the white dragon (Seath the father of Sorcery) and related to soul, Miracle is from the Gods (all the characters identified as Gods can give miracles), Pyromancy is an ancient magic manipulating fire, a branch ancient magic before Seath creating new kind of magic that is Sorcery, Oolacile Magic is another branch of ancient magic unknown to all...smithing is a science to upgrade weapons and armors using materials....some materials can make magic items, divine items, elemental items and normal upgraded items....so i can immerse myself in a magical world of Dark Souls...when i see magic being cast, i don't need to find reasoning on how it happen, i simply take it as magic...when i see miracle being cast, i understand it is the power from the Gods, how it happen or whatever doesn't matter, i know and understand miracles are powers of the Gods...

 

That is the world i want to be when playing games, the world where i don't have to think either the thing is magic/miracle or science, i don't want to be in the world of scepticism because i already being in a world of scepticism

[Silcron]

I do not understand if my post were clear or not,i even mentioned lighting bolts.
Where did i say that science is some form of ancient mystery?
(Snip)

Where did I say I was replying to you precisely? I just read what was in the thread and gave my thoughts on the matter. My post was not a direct response to anyone.

Now, to Qis.

After reading the rest of the thread I'm going to be blunt. Magic is not a thing of belief in The Dragon Age Setting (TheDAS, yep, that's the origin of the term. Gayder told the story on the tumblr he used to have). Magic is the action of pulling energy, called mana, from the Fade to alter the physical world that only specific individuals, called mages, can do.

And thing is, not you, not one of us gets to decide if it works that way or not. David Gayder and the rest of the people that created TheDAS decided what and how their magic system would work. You can like it or not but you cannot change it. And here's the kicker, just to see how mundane magic is in TheDAS the religions there, have never tried to ask anyone to have faith abot magic. The Chantry's goal is for everyone to believe in the Maker, but do they ask for anyone to believe in magic? No. Magic in TheDAS is real, as real as dragons, elves, lyrium, darkspawn, demons...

It's clear that you don't like this magic system, that's fine Qis; but understand that when discussing a topic like this we are not going to accept a definition for magic that for the case we are talking about is not true.

As for the magic tricks IRL. I do feel wonder when I watch one, not because I think magic is happening but wonder at how that person is so creative and skilled to make such performance. It's like watching really good dancers, or seeing state of the art technology in action. Like this morning for example, I saw a post in Facebook of a girl with a cybernetic forearms that seemed to work as well as Luke Skywalker's, that's amazing.

Personally, I don't need miracles, or faith, or a God. I just look around me, at the things nature, the galaxy and our species can do; at the stories and whole universes that we can imagine and they all are amazing. I can imagine wonders, I can read/watch/play about other people's wonders, but I just don't see the why I would have to think they are real, they're already worth it as they are. (Also for clarification, yes I include religions' mythologies as part of those stories and yes, I am an atheist by the reasons explained in this paragraph.)

[robertthebard]

Sacred Ashes is science or magic/miracle?

In Thedas, the answer is yes. It's all of the above.

You have to separate yourself from our world when discussing elements in their world. There are no mirrors, there is no smoke, barring fire spells burning stuff, there is no illusion: In Thedas, magic is very real, and measurable. They have schools dedicated to it's study, thus we can learn to be a Rift Mage in Inquisition. There is an entire sect dedicated to combatting magic, the Templars. None of these things are deniable, they are 100% factual. The problem is, they are also 100% fictional. Trying to apply real world physics to fictional world occurrences isn't going to work. It has it's own laws, and they are applied in universe. What you see happening on your monitor during a gameplay session isn't what you're going to see while sitting in a physics class. Unless you're playing in your physics class, which could explain a lot. These worlds are light years apart in what "reality" means.

[Aren]

In Thedas, the answer is yes. It's all of the above.

You have to separate yourself from our world when discussing elements in their world. There are no mirrors, there is no smoke, barring fire spells burning stuff, there is no illusion: In Thedas, magic is very real, and measurable. They have schools dedicated to it's study, thus we can learn to be a Rift Mage in Inquisition. There is an entire sect dedicated to combatting magic, the Templars. None of these things are deniable, they are 100% factual. The problem is, they are also 100% fictional. Trying to apply real world physics to fictional world occurrences isn't going to work

An efficient coexistence between fictional and realistic elements  studied by physics is necessary, because there are natural forces in Thedas of daily experience.

Gravity, the speed of light, the length, time etc., are all physical characteristics also present in Thedas.

Manipulate those magnitudes through an element of fiction such as "magic" poses its own difficulties.

Magic can alter time (Alexius), manipulate gravity (Wizards of force in DA2), manipulate the electromagnetic fields forces  etc ..

In essence it is able to interact with forces of different nature

 (the 4 fundamental forces) and manipulate at the magician's will, without there being the slightest comprehension of the mentioned phenomena or of the chains of effect that magic creates in order to alter those forces.

Magic is something that alters the fundamental forces and that is commanded by nothing more than acts and words.

To study such element,that seems to be a pinnacle of interaction and seems to be composed by more properties than all the elements of the periodic table together and always lead to different result (depend if you are in this or that dimension,or is this or that mage,or is this or that spell,or is this or that race,or is this or that wish in the fade) is beyond science.

 

So this is a problem of how the presentation of the world matches your preferences?

 

Well, with regard to magic (as opposed to miracles and faith), it's clear that there is no match. This is a world where Dorian can ask "How does that work, exactly?" and laugh as he finds you don't know, and where Tevinter mages did systematic experimentation in order to develop new spells - again, see Dorian's remarks about time magic. This is a clearly technical approach to the problem.

 

With regard to faith and mysteries, the match is as close as you want it to be: both with regard to the events in the Temple of the Sacred Ashes in DAO as well as to the Inquisitor and the entity you meet in the Fade, you're always free to see the hand of providence in those events, and the story explicitly supports both acceptance of the intrinsically mysterious and attempts to deconstruct it.

 

 

 

 For me, deciphering mysteries is one of the most enjoyable and engaging activities I can imagine. Acceptance is boring. If you accept a miracle at face value, it ends there. If you ask the question "How did that happen", you're engaging your imagination and your critical faculties - both essential activities of the human mind. You can postulate "lyrium did it" but that only leads to more questions, and if you follow those you're getting to a better understanding of aspects of the world. I find that *way* more interesting than "The Maker did it. 

 

Sufficiently Analyzed Magic , whenever you find wizards, witches, sorcerers or mages who decide that lore and intuition is not enough: They want to understand how magic works and will do so through empirical evidence and experimentation.

You have the beginnings of Sufficiently Analyzed Magic.

I already considered that aspect and i'm still skeptical for a series of reasons:

-The word spell,which is the functional definition?

-Magic and its properties

 

Spells and RItuals

 

The spell is the concentration of volitional energies toward a specific purpose, including the alteration of the natural behavior of the things or the will of the     people 

Almost every magical tradition and even organized religion, has its definite ideas than this practical aspect of the mystical side of life. 

The spell can be conveyed by words or by dedicated tools for this purpose, such as seals, amulets, talismans, pentacles, herbs and plants, oils, incense, ritual, etc. sometimes with the support of various invocations of deity or entity, or evocations.

From a strictly etymological spell it should require the use of voice, repeating words more or less in rhyme, a chant, etc. It is derived from the Latin enchanted with the meaning of "singing incantations."

Magical rituals/spells are the precisely defined actions (including speech) used to work magic. 

However, that even if the power of the ritual/spells is said to reside in the words, "the words only become effective if uttered in the special context of other actions.

These other actions typically consist of gestures, possibly performed with special objects at a particular place or time. 

This is mysticism and this is exactly how every spell in DA aside from the hedge magic works,it does not follow the methodology of science even if all that you need to do is to repeat the same procedure of words and gestures over and over again to achieve the same result.

Being repeatable for a given phenomenon is a necessary but not a sufficient condition in order to be part of the scientific methodology,in fact the method/ procedure as to be clear and a connection (even a primitive one that eventually will be improved over the centuries) between cause and effect is necessary,otherwise is not science.

Hedge magic is even worse in this regard (mad hermit,Solas,Cole and Morrigan to some extent),since it does not even require words and is often tied with mysticism.

 

Magic

 

In which way i have to define magic? As energy it would be incorrect,energy is the physical quantity that measures the ability of a body or a physical system to do work, regardless of whether the work is or can be serviced

The concept of energy can emerge intuitively by experimentally observing that the capacity of a physical system to do work decreases gradually that this is produced.

In this sense, the energy can be defined as a property possessed by the system that can be exchanged between the bodies through work,still it does not possess some specific trait that magic possess.

For instance magic is capable to be switch between forms,it can become ice(creation of Hydrogen and Oxygen) or fire(without combustible) or whatever other elements,complex biological system like others animal forms.

I can't imagine any possible rule behind this beyond the dream dimension forces that are so intrinsically impossible to detect.

 

 

 

Regarding the last part of your post  which is basically « Principium cuius hinc nobis exordia sumet,nullam rem e nihilo gigni divinitus umquam. » i don't agree with that is a limited way of thinking especially for modern science.

It's the presumption to believe that is possible to understand the universe and its laws with constant experimentations and by relying on chains of cause and effects and results that you think may be predicted, which is a logic that it doesn't work anymore under peculiar condition

(in this world being time constraints such as (tP) unit of time which beyond that any rules that you may know lose their validity)

and those are general concepts that work on Thedas as well,since time is a part of Thedas.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AlanC9]

I want to be in a world of magic and miracles, i don't want to be in the world where magic and miracles can be contested by scientific explanation, i don't have to play a game for that, our real life is like that already

Thedas is a world of magic. Maybe miracles too; jury's still out on that part. Nobody's trying to "contest" the existence of magic there; doing that would be insane.

Like watching magic show, what is fun if a guy next to you say "do you see the thin wire on the stage?", i don't want to hear that, i just want to watch magic

But a PC magician would know about the wire. She'd have to or she couldn't do the magic.

[robertthebard]

An efficient coexistence between fictional and realistic elements  studied by physics is necessary, because there are natural forces in Thedas of daily experience.
Gravity, the speed of light, the length, time etc., are all physical characteristics also present in Thedas.

Manipulate those magnitudes through an element of fiction such as "magic" poses its own difficulties.
Magic can alter time (Alexius), manipulate gravity (Wizards of force in DA2), manipulate the electromagnetic fields forces  etc ..
In essence it is able to interact with forces of different nature
 (the 4 fundamental forces) and manipulate at the magician's will, without there being the slightest comprehension of the mentioned phenomena or of the chains of effect that magic creates in order to alter those forces.

No, it's not necessary. It is a fictional world. As a fictional world, they could have laws of physics that turn everything we know on it's head, and be perfectly acceptable, because it's a fictional world. Our reality has no bearing on it, whatsoever. Magic exists in Thedas, it is real, it is measurable, and it has "rules". It can be studied by non-mages, hello Dagna, as a popular example. She can't cast any spells, but she's studied magic, and even written papers on it, according to her. Since all of this is true, trying to correlate that with our world gets a little on the impractical side. Hey, we can shoot lightning out of our fingertips, just ask my cat in the Winter, when I zap her with static electricity. It has an abysmally short range, and isn't very strong, but it's there. Trying to compare that natural phenomenon with Magic, which is also a natural phenomenon in Thedas isn't really practical is it? Not everything can be tucked into a nice little box with a ribbon, especially not scientifically, since accepted theories can change, check out gravity, for a reference.

[AlanC9]

In essence it is able to interact with forces of different nature (the 4 fundamental forces) and manipulate at the magician's will, without there being the slightest comprehension of the mentioned phenomena or of the chains of effect that magic creates in order to alter those forces.

True, but comprehending and being able to manipulate forces are not at all the same thing. We had workable optics long before any real understanding of light, for instance. A prism works whether you understand color or not. Magical manipulation of light would be no different.

Magic is something that alters the fundamental forces and that is commanded by nothing more than acts and words.

This is not how magic works in Thedas. It's not at all clear that gestures are really required, and words don't seem to be part of the process. This isn't really fatal to your point, but we should get details right.

To study such element,that seems to be a pinnacle of interaction and seems to be composed by more properties than all the elements of the periodic table together and always lead to different result (depend if you are in this or that dimension,or is this or that mage,or is this or that spell,or is this or that race,or is this or that wish in the fade) is beyond science.

A swing of a sword is different depending on who's swinging it. It does not therefore follow that swords are beyond science. What's the actual argument here?

Almost every magical tradition and even organized religion, has its definite ideas than this practical aspect of the mystical side of life.
The spell can be conveyed by words or by dedicated tools for this purpose, such as seals, amulets, talismans, pentacles, herbs and plants, oils, incense, ritual, etc. sometimes with the support of various invocations of deity or entity, or evocations.
From a strictly etymological spell it should require the use of voice, repeating words more or less in rhyme, a chant, etc. It is derived from the Latin enchanted with the meaning of "singing incantations."

This is moderately interesting, but utterly irrelevant to Thedas.

Regarding the last part of your post which is basically « Principium cuius hinc nobis exordia sumet,nullam rem e nihilo gigni divinitus umquam. » i don't agree with that is a limited way of thinking especially for modern science.

Protip: As much of a Lucretius fan as I am, tossing around Latin phrases without providing the translation isn't a great strategy. I used to do this sort of thing myself when I was young and stupid, and it never works. Mostly it just looks pretentious. (French phrases are even worse, but anybody who does that is usually trying for pretentious anyway.)

[Illegitimus]

 

 

Being repeatable for a given phenomenon is a necessary but not a sufficient condition in order to be part of the scientific methodology,in fact the method/ procedure as to be clear and a connection (even a primitive one that eventually will be improved over the centuries) between cause and effect is necessary,otherwise is not science.

 

 

Anything which is repeatable is something that can be scientifically studied.  That does not mean a mage who casts a spell to blast a darkspawn is doing science.  Of course he isn't.  Someone who shoots a gun or turns on a flashlight isn't doing science either.  Science is means of gathering information and drawing conclusions.  And evidence can be gathered and conclusions drawn as much about magic as anything else.  

[leaguer of one]

Anything which is repeatable is something that can be scientifically studied.  That does not mean a mage who casts a spell to blast a darkspawn is doing science.  Of course he isn't.  Someone who shoots a gun or turns on a flashlight isn't doing science either.  Science is means of gathering information and drawing conclusions.  And evidence can be gathered and conclusions drawn as much about magic as anything else.

You have no idea how many times people have said this. Heck, what you said was my first responds to this topic.

[Medhia_Nox]

Scientific theories or "laws" get proven wrong, doesn't mean there aren't any rules.

Yes, theories and laws get proven wrong... because people were wrong about them, not because their fundamental nature changed.

 

Hedge mages ALONE make Thedosian magic unscientific.... it says clearly that they produce unique effects. 

 

So, unless we're saying that some scientists can produce hyper-drives... while other scientists will produce warp gates... but neither group will be able to reproduce the other's findings... we're not talking about science at all. 

 

It isn't a matter of incorrect classification... like Pluto isn't a planet anymore... "reality is change!"  - nothing changed about Pluto at all.  Science can change (because it's a make-believe system of classification) - nature never changes... and certainly not because you believe really hard. 

 

Not all mages are born equally capable of the same thing... which is why you HAVE rote Circle spells... because those are grasped by the most mages... most of the time.  Some mages can't even light little fires...  "science" has nothing to do with it  

[Qis]

Yes, like what i already mentioned in other thread, magic is stagnant, science is progression. That's why they don't mix.

 

Magic is always as it were, it's nature never change. While science keep upgrading, keep changing, keep progressing untill there's nothing more you can do.Today we have pendrive as small as bugs, it can't be smaller...that's the limit of making a pendrive, but it will not stop there, there will be other form of device for data storage, we never know what technology can come out with, maybe in the future we have a computer as small as cockroaches with hologram...who know?

 

But magic never change, never progress, magic will always as it were.

[Medhia_Nox]

Yes, like what i already mentioned in other thread, magic is stagnant, science is progression. That's why they don't mix.

 

Magic is always as it were, it's nature never change. While science keep upgrading, keep changing, keep progressing untill there's nothing more you can do.Today we have pendrive as small as bugs, it can't be smaller...that's the limit of making a pendrive, but it will not stop there, there will be other form of device for data storage, we never know what technology can come out with, maybe in the future we have a computer as small as cockroaches with hologram...who know?

 

But magic never change, never progress, magic will always as it were.

 

I disagree.  Magic isn't static... it is simply not measurable and reproducible when taken as a whole.  Yes, "most mages, most of the time" can cast some level of fireball... but that's not how science works. Science is reproducible as close to 100% of the time as possible (never possible since real science must always leave room for being wrong - unlike lay-science enthusiasts) - magic is a malleable force and sometimes new magic pops up - like Rift Magic.  

 

Nature is measurable and reproducible - and its fundamental principles are unchanging - science can only make discoveries, it cannot create "new nature".  

 

Magic is art made manifest into a fictional world... science is the classification of a pre-made environment that sapient beings cannot fundamentally alter.  

 

For me it's like comparing apples and iron ore... 

[AlanC9]

Yes, like what i already mentioned in other thread, magic is stagnant, science is progression. That's why they don't mix.

To the extent that's true, it's because fantasy games are set in societies that either haven't yet developed scientific method, or have just recently developed it. (Ferelden is probably right at the line there; they seem to have the theory without the widespread practice.) Note that non-magical technologies are typically just as stagnant as the magic in a fantasy world. To some extent this is because many fantasy worlds derive from the European Middle Ages, where technology had gone backward from an earlier era. Supposedly, anyway; there were actually a lot of technological developments during the so-called Dark Ages. Roman agriculture, for instance, was really crappy.

There's no actual reason why magic can't develop in the same fashion as other technologies develop, given the proper social conditions. A world designer can, of course, design the world so magic is inherently limited relative to technology. Do we have any reason to assume that this is the case in Ferelden?