64 réponses à ce sujet

[diaspora2k5]

I think Bioware should let you make those choices, but I don't think they should allow players to import extremes like that (or "divine victor" as another example) into future titles. Essentially, I think Bioware should allow you to make band-end choices but I think they should also refuse to allow the player to import them into future games.

[Cobra's_back]

Seems to me that in these games you can never support letting the world burn. You HAVE to maintain the status quo "save the world" no matter what (Warden MUST stop the Blight, Hawke MUST side with mages or Templars in the final fight, the Inquisitor MUST stop the Breach and Corypheus), but how much of a jerk you want to be about it until that point is entirely up to you.

 

 

As opposed to the "interesting" character creator of a human PC (if the anti-race selection crowd had their way) in a human-dominated continent that got its power by making slaves of elves and its own people (Tevinter), and now keeps its power by suppressing elves and mages (Andrasteism), and showing complete indifference to non-human native races dying out (since elves and dwarves are slowly going extinct)?

 

It doesn't matter though, I doubt BioWare's going to let us support restoring Elvhenan since that would be too drastic a change. They wouldn't even let us come up with a definitive answer to the Mage/Templar War (it always ends with the Circles coming back, the College of Enchanters being formed, and the Templars not being dissolved completely); why would they let us restore the ancient elven world?

What are you talking about? Problems are not solved by massive genocide. There is no benefit to going back to an ancient elven society. They almost destroyed the world.

 

On the other hand you have characters that do seek reform like Cass and Leliana. A game where you kill everyone but ancient elves doesn't have a future. That would be a failed mission like they allowed in ME2. If you planned the failed mission in ME2 and Shepard died, your game could not be imported.

[diaspora2k5]

Mass Effect 2 did this with the option to have Shepard die during the suicide mission.

 

Sure, make your extreme decision, it'll even have a major consequence. The consequence is that you can't import your entire save into the next game. This gives people the freedom to do whatever the hell they want without the writers having to tie themselves into ridiculous knots to accommodate them.

 

edit: I do think they player should still be able to make choices and have them move forward to the next title, just not all of them. Let the player make extreme choices and have the consequence of being prevented from importing all of the choices from that save to the next game.

[Cobra's_back]

Mass Effect 2 did this with the option to have Shepard die during the suicide mission.

 

Sure, make your extreme decision, it'll even have a major consequence. The consequence is that you can't import your entire save into the next game. This gives people the freedom to do whatever the hell they want without the writers having to tie themselves into ridiculous knots to accommodate them.

I agree 100%. It was a playthrough for just the option to screw up royally but not destroy the story.

[diaspora2k5]

This is probably the more tragic things about the potential for a Divine Victor choice- they weren't willing to do it being unable to accommodate such a crazy choice into DA4. I would have preferred that they let you pull that insanity off and simply refuse to let the player import that save into DA4 since it's so damn weird.

[Qis]

Problem massive genocide to bring back a society that will only destroy itself again is not a good idea. Last time I checked the ancient elves were racist, and still are. Pretty boring to play an ancient elf who makes slaves of its own people. Character creation would be very limited.

 

Well, it is an option, it will give some satisfaction should we choose that path, especially if playing as an Elf who resent humans and everything else, any race could have some justifications to choose that path, maybe human themselves just get bored with human politics and corruption decided to destroy human civilization, whatever, it still an option.

 

 

What are you talking about? Problems are not solved by massive genocide. There is no benefit to going back to an ancient elven society. They almost destroyed the world.

 

On the other hand you have characters that do seek reform like Cass and Leliana. A game where you kill everyone but ancient elves doesn't have a future. That would be a failed mission like they allowed in ME2. If you planned the failed mission in ME2 and Shepard died, your game could not be imported.

 

I don't mind if going evil and bad will not become a canon, i just want an option to satisfy the carnage inside me, at least one of the playthrough players want to to see "what if i am going into evil path", it have replay value

 

KotOR players will atleast playing it twice, one for the good ending, and the other just messing around want to be evil for the evil ending. Of course we can choose evil or good ending no matter what our alignment is, but it is interesting to the "the other side".

 

Now we are using Dragon Age Keep, i don't think import saves will be an issue, we just pick it all on the Keep.

[MaxQuartiroli]

Mass Effect 2 did this with the option to have Shepard die during the suicide mission.

 

To my eyes that one was just an illusion of a choice, being it the equivalent of a GAME OVER. Of course if you died during your game you could not continue in the next game, no matter when you died, be it near the end, half-way or right at the beginning...

 

It would have been a real choice if they allowed you to begin the 3rd game with a new blank character...which was impossible because there are always budget constraint and technical limitations.

[Qis]

Dark Souls don't have too much story, it is not even a story, we made up it's story ourselves by making theories and speculations, but it is still interesting. And we can choose the ending, we are not sure which is the good or bad ending, but players still arguing about it up to today...should it only have one ending, players will not be actively discussing about it. That is what important about having multiple endings, it will keep players interested and keep the community alive.

 

DA:O community alive because of it have multiple endings, players want to see all the possibilities and discuss them. Players love to speculate. We don't see players discuss much about DA2 ending, because the ending is doesn't matter, lead to same result.

[diaspora2k5]

To my eyes that one was just an illusion of a choice, being it the equivalent of a GAME OVER. Of course if you died during your game you could not continue in the next game, no matter when you died, be it near the end, half-way or right at the beginning...

 

It would have been a real choice if they allowed you to begin the 3rd game with a new blank character...which was impossible because there are always budget constraint and technical limitations.

It wasn't the illusion of choice, it was a real one with real consequences. It was a 'bad end' and the consequence of that bad end is being unable to continue shepard's story.

[Cobra's_back]

Well, it is an option, it will give some satisfaction should we choose that path, especially if playing as an Elf who resent humans and everything else, any race could have some justifications to choose that path, maybe human themselves just get bored with human politics and corruption decided to destroy human civilization, whatever, it still an option.

 

 

 

I don't mind if going evil and bad will not become a canon, i just want an option to satisfy the carnage inside me, at least one of the playthrough players want to to see "what if i am going into evil path", it have replay value

 

KotOR players will atleast playing it twice, one for the good ending, and the other just messing around want to be evil for the evil ending. Of course we can choose evil or good ending no matter what our alignment is, but it is interesting to the "the other side".

 

Now we are using Dragon Age Keep, i don't think import saves will be an issue, we just pick it all on the Keep.

 

The keep is an excellent tool and having it is much better than having to play the game again or go with default values.

 

Question for you: You only get to play Dalish Elf. Solas mentions your people will die. In the game Ancient Elves do not recognize City Elves or Dalish Elves as their people. They look at other Elves with disdain. They seem to be the ultimate Neo Nazi. In the book "The Mask Empire" the Dalish call a city elf flat ear. They typically don't care for them at all.

 

It was my impression you will die if you support Solas. I'm wondering now if a city elf is different? Why are some of the city elves following Solas? Are they being lied to, and asked to repair the crossroads.

 

Is that what you wanted? Do you think they should show you some carnage before you die as well?

[Cobra's_back]

To my eyes that one was just an illusion of a choice, being it the equivalent of a GAME OVER. Of course if you died during your game you could not continue in the next game, no matter when you died, be it near the end, half-way or right at the beginning...

 

It would have been a real choice if they allowed you to begin the 3rd game with a new blank character...which was impossible because there are always budget constraint and technical limitations.

No it was a real choice and you didn't get the game over cut scene like you do if you kiss Morinth. That was a game over and you needed a reload. 

[Cobra's_back]

Dark Souls don't have too much story, it is not even a story, we made up it's story ourselves by making theories and speculations, but it is still interesting. And we can choose the ending, we are not sure which is the good or bad ending, but players still arguing about it up to today...should it only have one ending, players will not be actively discussing about it. That is what important about having multiple endings, it will keep players interested and keep the community alive.

 

DA:O community alive because of it have multiple endings, players want to see all the possibilities and discuss them. Players love to speculate. We don't see players discuss much about DA2 ending, because the ending is doesn't matter, lead to same result.

True. DA2 had the least amount of lore and choices. It was very linear and everything was going downhill for Hawke. Not the best design for replay value. I guess people played it multiple times to get a different reaction from their companions. I only played it once. DAO and DAI played several times for different choices, and to find as much lore as possible.

[Qis]

The keep is an excellent tool and having it is much better than having to play the game again or go with default values.

 

Question for you: You only get to play Dalish Elf. Solas mentions your people will die. In the game Ancient Elves do not recognize City Elves or Dalish Elves as their people. They look at other Elves with disdain. They seem to be the ultimate Neo Nazi. In the book "The Mask Empire" the Dalish call a city elf flat ear. They typically don't care for them at all.

 

It was my impression you will die if you support Solas. I'm wondering now if a city elf is different? Why are some of the city elves following Solas? Are they being lied to, and asked to repair the crossroads.

 

Is that what you wanted? Do you think they should show you some carnage before you die as well?

 

I welcomed every consequences of my choice, every choice have their own consequences, doing good and get rewarded, doing bad got punished, or either way, what important is there are choices.

 

You know game books like Lone Wolf and Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone Fighting Fantasy series? It is a suspense and surprises when we turn each pages to see what happen. We have to choose everytimes in game books, on each pages.

 

If a game will only have one ending only and have no significant choices, we will only play once, after that we won't bother play because we already know whatever we do have no meaning and only will end up the same.

[Cobra's_back]

I welcomed every consequences of my choice, every choice have their own consequences, doing good and get rewarded, doing bad got punished, or either way, what important is there are choices.

 

You know game books like Lone Wolf and Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone Fighting Fantasy series? It is a suspense and surprises when we turn each pages to see what happen. We have to choose everytimes in game books, on each pages.

 

If a game will only have one ending only and have no significant choices, we will only play once, after that we won't bother play because we already know whatever we do have no meaning and only will end up the same.

Good point. To be honest dying when making bad decisions, and seeing the carnage was worth playing not as a final but at least just to see what happens.

[thats1evildude]

The Fighting Fantasy and Lone Wolf series only had one ending, generally. Those that didn't were often the shittier books. (Rings of Kether, I'm looking at you.)

[Qis]

The Fighting Fantasy and Lone Wolf series only had one ending, generally. Those that didn't were often the shittier books. (Rings of Kether, I'm looking at you.)

 

Ofcourse the ultimate ending will be at page 350 or 400

 

But usually there are unexpected endings such as in Creature of Chaos

 

In Crown of Kings your time travel spell could backfire and make you jump into previous books

[MaxQuartiroli]

No it was a real choice and you didn't get the game over cut scene like you do if you kiss Morinth. That was a game over and you needed a reload. 

 

Ah OK, fair enough then, It has been a lot of time and I didn't remember that you don't get the "game over" message. 

BTW It's quite curious that you can survive the suicide mission and still get a "critical failure" in the aftermath thanks to Morinth xD  

[almasy87]

I will treasure the possibility to assist Solas in his plan if his plan will make sense. Bear in mind that Elvhenan only started to fall because of the Evanuris. It's only them who started being corrupted with power and enslaving others. So the fact that a few people were corrupted does not mean all the others were. Without the Evanuris, Arlathan would probably have remained like a paradise or so according to descriptions..

Solas has a plan for the Evanuris, or so he says, so if his plan is sound and they wouldn't be able to get back their powers or whatever he plans to do to them, that world may have a chance for Elves to live peacefully. Plus he says "your world needs to end" but it's not really explained what this means. In my opinion if the Veil is brought down it is possible that only those with a strong and deep connection with the Fade survive, and the others die. So it's "the world" as it is now, but you don't know how it will be after, it may be better or not, it's discussable. Anyway my Lavellan didn't like humans that much to begin with, and just when she thought maybe with the Inquisition and doing good for people her opinion would change, she is reminded just how corrupted and addicted to power humans are after how the Exalted Council treated her. So if Solas' plan is sound and there is no risk of the Evanuris going **** crazy all over again, and Elves can possibly survive, she might back it up... 

Also, I don't think Elves are being misled by Solas. There is a note about Fen'Harel you find in Trespasser: "He leads only those who would help willingly. Let none be beholden but by choice." so if that is true I do not think he would lie to them. So either Elves are not at risk from his plan, or anyway it's not hard to believe a lot of oppressed elves would gladly give their life for the prospective of a "better future".

Ofc this all has to be seen. It may come out as being the total opposite We can only wait for now...

[vbibbi]

[Gervaise]

There have been hints from PW that when Solas talks about destroy, he does not mean complete annihilation of the world but more a transformation.    Which is why some people (including myself) are having uncomfortable recollections of the ending to ME3.     So an end to the world as we know it and the races as they are now but not a complete end to existence.  

 

We have had an instance where the HoF could take the ultimate sacrifice but you could still carry on playing with Awakening with a different Warden.   However, there is a difference between making a willing sacrifice, leaving the rest of the world okay, and letting creation burn.     Basically, if you take Solas literally, then by wanting to join him you are essentially no different to the Order of Fiery Promise.     There were Andrastrians who believed that the world was so broken the only way to remedy it was to wipe the slate clean and start again, so I imagine there may be quite a few elves, particularly city elves, that feel the same.    When the current world offers you no hope of a better situation, you might well follow a charismatic leader who says he can make things better, particularly if there is a suggestion you might be reborn into his new utopia as an immortal spirit.  

 

As for wanting to join Cory, I think it is a bit like wanting to join Sauron; such individuals do not share power.    If you had torn down the Veil, you would just have been doing Solas' work for him.    As for entering the Black city to assume godhood; the  Chant may not be right about everything but I think suggesting entering the Black City is a very bad idea is probably sound advice.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

 

But it is all washed away now...it is insignifant choice, Kieran is nothing, so even we choose the dark path in DA:O, it is nothing

 

Which is how real life works. Deal with it. 

[Aren]

I don't remember Origins having an option to let the blight win...

My Canon for DAO...

Spoiler

And then the big bad dragon invaded Kirkwall

Spoiler

image hosting

and was killed by the hero Mark Stroud

[aerisblight]

I liked how tales of xillia 2 did it. Either you saved the world, or you turned your back on it and saved your brother instead.
I did it once. It felt good.

[Dai Grepher]

I get what you're saying, there should have been more "evil" choices or destructive choices. The story and dialogue were very upbeat in regards to saving the world.

 

However, you can potentially cause ruin based on the choices you make. You could play an Inquisitor who takes power for himself, sets up a system that will destroy itself, and even set the Chantry up for failure. Basically, you can lead the world to its bitter end by not helping it, and indeed making things worse.

 

The real problem is and always has been Trespasser. You get the same ending with one of two themes regardless of what you do.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Yeah, but if we did that then we wouldn't get any sequels! Can't have that! Need to keep this Dragon Age money train going!

 

Then again, Bioware could just set the next Dragon Age in a completely different continent...

 

Nah. They wouldn't ever do that for one of their games. Never.