42 réponses à ce sujet

[Gervaise]

Would just like to point out that being a sh** isn't confined to powerful elves.    Until Dorian turned up every Tevinter mage we met was into blood magic sacrifice and abusing their power.   Not long after the raising of the Veil, human dreamers started subjugating the surviving, shell shocked elves and then listening to hints from the Fade on how to perform blood magic (the sacrificial stuff) to consolidate their power.    The Tevinter are still doing that to this day.

 

Also Uldred was a human mage who lured other mages at the Ferelden Circle into using blood magic, just so he could split on them to Irving, thus deflecting suspicion from himself, before finally becoming possessed himself and causing the entire tower to be overrun.   Then there was the predecessor to Irving who worked with the Architect and apparently thought his idea to turn everyone in Thedas into darkspawn was something he should support.   Finally there is Anders, the guy who allowed himself to be possessed by Justice, warping his mind and turning him into a vehicle of vengeance, ultimately blowing up a Chantry with many people inside and taking out a good part of the city as well through falling debris.  

 

So perhaps it would be a more accurate statement to say that all mages are dangerous and capable of being sh**s.    Mind you that is not confined to mages; so I'd change that to all people with power are capable of being sh**s.       That's why we call the ones who aren't heroes.

[Aren]

Because they were bald .

DAII Solas he was nice there with his last girlfriend

Spoiler

[myahele]

The world will be ruined once Solas achieves his plans since there will be more Elvhen mages running around and we all know they crazy (except Lanaya)

[kimgoold]

Bald Elves = Bad

 

But to think about it, all bald men are bad except Ser Otto at the Alienage

A good point, most bald characters in game human and elven have had a screw loose. (some more than one!)

[Ashagar]

Poor Sir Otto, much like all the good templars you meet they always seem die doing their duty to protect except for pretty boy Cullen and Sir Barris if you go the Templar route.

[In Exile]

On the other hand, the curse that he put on the original humans was more than amply earned. Even the werewolves themselves agree there. What was done to his son and daughter goes beyond horrific, and it's no surprise at all that he concocted the worst punishment he could think of and let vengeance take it from there. That doesn't excuse his actions, but it sure makes them understandable.

Yeah, except all those people died and then not only did he curse all of their descendants for all time, but he took such a perverse and sadistic pleasure in it that it made Ark Howe look well adjusted.

Whatever Zathrian was before that curse, by DAO he was probably the most unquestionably evil character we meet apart from Arl Howe. Even Loghain - who is actively participating in and justifying slavery - comes out as the moral better. Only Branka is as awful, because while all she did was curse ONE innocent generation with torture and mutations, it was arguably far worse than the werewolf curse.

Zathrian is just plan awful, and there's no justification for the centuries long torture he's perpetrated.

And that's ignoring all of his other awful sins against the Dalish. One, he's perpetrating an absolutely racist myth (which we now know for a fact is incorrect) about elven immortality being tied to humans. Two, he's actively perverting his people's beliefs in doing it, because he knows he's lying and misleading them about their own past. Three, he's actively sacrificing the lives of his clan by not revealing his sin and involvement in his curse. Four, when finally confronted with the monstrosity of his actions, his reaction is to just try and murder everyone.

Zathrian is evil. He's as close to evil as you can get in a setting that doesn't have caricatures of people like D&D.

[Ashagar]

Well I could think of some people more evil in real life as they were so lacking in good qualities when they tried to put one in a movie they had to tone him down a lot and give him good qualities he didn't have in real life and even then some people thought he was unrealistic cartoonishly evil character.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Yeah, but they were constantly turning other humans into werewolves.  Centuries past when the original killers would be dead themselves.

 

And he refused to lift the curse, even knowing what it was doing to innocent humans.  Even innocent elves of his own clan.

 

I know, but the wording of "constantly cursing humans with lycanthropy" makes it sound like he was going around specifically cursing random new people over the centuries because they were human. 

[Qis]

A good point, most bald characters in game human and elven have had a screw loose. (some more than one!)

 

Wade is also bald, so that's make 2 good bald men, others are just bad...

[In Exile]

I know, but the wording of "constantly cursing humans with lycanthropy" makes it sound like he was going around specifically cursing random new people over the centuries because they were human. 

 

He was going around specifically cursing new people over the centuries because they were human. That's literally what he did to the descendants of the people who viciously abused his daughter. He doesn't get a pass on the absolutely premeditated misery he inflicted because he created a curse that runs itself. Especially since his reaction isn't "Oh, no, what have I done!" but "They all deserve it!" He absolutely condones and revels in the suffering he's causing. 

[The_Mac23]

Zathrian is trash.

[ZhengAn]

When I first saw the title, I expected "...are bald?" in the thread.

[Gervaise]

What Zathrian did was bad.   However, the writers obviously intended the story about his children should create some sense of sympathy for him, just as they made Alexius' motivation for everything he did out of desire to save his son.    So if you totally condemn the elven Zathrian for what he did and say that proves all powerful elves are bad, you should equally condemn all human Magisters for the actions of those we meet in the three games (apart from Dorian who isn't a Magister to begin with anyway).     Zathrian only condemned one human community and latterly his own clan to his curse.    

 

Alexius was prepared to sell out the entirety of Thedas to the Elder One for the sake of Felix.   He used his time magic research to try and remove the one person who had got in the way of Corypheus' plans, he tricked rebel mages into indentured servitude to Tevinter (and thus the Elder One), and through encouraging the setting up of the occulara, he was at least indirectly responsible for the horrific death of the majority of ex-Circle tranquil (assuming he didn't know how they were being created, which he probably did).      Yet, from what we are told in WoT2 Alexius was not an evil person to begin with but in fact one of the better hearted Magisters, which is why he took Dorian under his wing and turned his life around.   

 

So let us not be prejudiced about this; there are a great many mages doing evil things in the Dragon Age world, human, elf and likely qunari too, but that doesn't mean either their entire race should be condemned because of it or mages as a group.     Dorian's greatest fear is temptation because no matter how proof you think you are, you never know what might be the trigger that causes you to abuse your power.    

 

In the case of Zathrian and Solas, it is because they cared so deeply about others, their fall from grace is so great.   Once they have taken the fateful step, then they will continue to try and justify their actions because otherwise they can't face the truth about what they've done.      You can finally get Zathrian to agree to removing the curse and I think at the end he probably does realise what he did was wrong.   May be the same will hold true of Solas: the writers certainly seem to be trying to hint as much otherwise they wouldn't be offering you the chance to redeem him.

[The_Mac23]

I didn't finish your post, mainly because both Zathrian and Alexius were killed on my watch. I understand complicated characters; it is why Loghain is my favorite character in the Dragon Age world. I understood the motivations, but unlike these other two examples you used, Loghain eventually submits that he went too far. His game was one of politics; the other two involved centuries of damning innocent humans to becoming werewolves and handing Thedas over to a demonic being, hellbent on destroying the world. No compassion for Zathrian and Alexius.

Aveline knew what had to be done to Wesley. No one damned her actions; Alexius should have done the same.

[The_Mac23]

And I never condemned the race entirely. Just said their most powerful were complete and utter trash. They make an Arishok look like a savior.

[Ghost Gal]

All pieces of crap?? First Zathrien, then Solas??

 

Those are literally only two examples. What about Shartan, Garahel, Ameridan?

 

What about Zevran and Fenris? (I know Merrill and Sera are more divisive.) 

 

What about an Elven Warden and Inquisitor?

 

Sure, yeah, sweep aside all examples of good or helpful powerful elves to focus on the one or two bad eggs (pun intended since they're both bald), then say "All powerful elves."

[fhs33721]

Well to be fair, the most powerful people of every race are pretty much d*cks in the setting.

[Ashagar]

Or if they aren't they tend to get killed for the sake of the plot.