22 réponses à ce sujet

[Ghost Gal]

In real life, I have a hard time thinking humans deserve ANY space colonies because of how badly we're exploiting and trashing our own people and planet. We can't even be nice to each other or take care of our own planet (many scientists estimate that we are on the verge of the Sixth Great Extinction since Earth's inception over 4 billion years ago--the last great extinction was when the dinosaurs went out like a light--and mainly due to human activity), why do we deserve to move on to exploit and trash others?

 

However, because this series sets out to pat humanity on the back for being the most special wonderful awesome species ever, let's sweep all that under the rug! I noticed that both Paragon and Renegade Shepard consistently boards the "humanity is awesome and deserves this chance!" train.

 

Either Paragon Shepard is all "Humanity needs this chance! And we need to cooperate with aliens to get the recognition we deserve!" or Renegade Shepard comes across as a KKK/neo-Nazi skinhead, only who seems to see humanity as the "whites" and the aliens as the Jews and racial minorities. (Neutral Shepard just comes across as, "No comment. I'm just following orders/doing my job.")

 

Yet, a conversation with Ashley early on can reveal that Earth-born Shepard has seen firsthand how much Earth sucks. A giant metropolis has covered it (meaning all the ecosystems have been wiped out), pollution and over-population have become rampant, and the gap between the rich and poor is so wide that Earth Shepard's story of being an orphaned street urchin who lived in the slums of the metropolis and joining a criminal gang to survive early childhood is a common one.

 

Yet, Shepard never, ever, ever, ever seems to be able to say, "No, I agree with the aliens. Humanity sucks," or "No, aliens have a point. We haven't proven we can take care of our own people and planet, so why do we think we deserve to rule over more worlds and aliens?" or even, "Hey, I've been to Earth. That place is a trash heap. If we were half as interested in taking care of our own planet as we were in gaining more, maybe the aliens would take us more seriously."

 

But no, apparently. Even Earth Shepard, who's seen firsthand how badly humans treat each other and mishandle their own homeworld, seems to think humanity DESERVES yet more worlds to exploit and trash.

 

What. The. Hell.

[straykat]

There's no excuse really. But my Earthborn Shep isn't Paragon either. So I don't expect all that much.

 

That said, I barely get to care about humans either, by the end. Grissom is the best humanity can offer, and it's just a side mission while I worry about Krogan and Turian alliances and Quarians. And Garrus is pretty much default bro, no matter what. Shep changes/evolves, no matter what.

 

Wait.. this is about ME1? lol. Sorry about that.

[bunch1]

1.It's not about whether or not humanity deserves to colonize a world, it's whether or not they can.  The only way to stop them would be to fight and no one in the galaxy wants to do that.  The Turians lost any entire fleet and army at Shanxi and the Batarians got their a** kicked when they tried to stop the humans from settling uninhabited worlds that they thought were theirs by right even though they had not colonized them in the hundreds of years they were apart of council space.  The Turians only have about 3 times the number of dreadnoughts as the humans and the human fleet has several dreadnought sized carriers which means they have a massive advantage in fighter support and that is something the turians have never dealt with and don't yet know how to counter when they first meet the Alliance so no one wants to try fighting the little upstarts when they first meet.

 

2.Earth isn't ruined in ME.  Their are about 11 billion humans on Earth in ME if I recall and most of them live in the mega cities.  That means that yes, their are heavily populated areas just like today in Tokyo, LA, Beijing, or the Urbran sprawl that goes from New York to Washingtion D.C.  But most of the world is still green and blue and likely will be in the ME timeline, particularly when you factor in that the whole point of colonizing other worlds is to not destroy your own.  Just look and the Sol system and how many mining operations are set up on uninhabited moons and planets and then shipping back their raw material to Earth to use.

 

3.The whole point of the paragon route saying you need to work with aliens is itself an admission that humanity needs outside help from those who have been doing this for hundreds and thousands of years.  So while s/he might not come out and say humanity sucks aliens are better lets let them rule us, they are looking to them for guidance and support.

 

4.Earthborn Shepard had a rough childhood but once they get out into space and see whats out their they realize they didn't have it so bad and most humans had it much better which may make him jealous but he knows s/he is in the minority.  What with all the slavers and genocide in the galaxy it's hard to say the aliens are better.  I mean the council ordered the genocide of the Rachi who were trying to commit genocide on the council.  They ordered the genophage dropped on the Krogan, who were conquering and destroying worlds left and right, that has completely destroyed their culture and sent them into a spiral of self destructive infighting and depression filled wander and violence.  They refused to help the Quarrians when the geth went out of control or allow them to settle on any of the hundreds of uninhabited worlds within their territory and all but made them the lepers of the galaxy forced to survive on scrapes. 

 

The turians don't really believe in freedom considering everyone in the heriacry is conscripted and forced to serve the government as a soldier or some other function.  They are a very belligerent power who use force to get what they want and don't care about the people at the bottom, the unification war showed they couldn't have any turian worlds outside Palaven's control and the rebellion of Typhon showed that hundreds of years later they still hadn't put any effort into fixing the worlds they destroyed in their conquest, merely taking what they want from them without giving in return.  The batarians have a long history of institutionalized slavery the the council allowed and now that they are rouge they no longer restrict themselves to just their own people.  The volus themselves buy and sell their clansmen all the time according to their ambassador.  Even the asari have indentured servitude as shown on Illuim though this may be an out-liner as it's not part of the Asari Republics but it is still an asari world and their culture that even a Justicar doesn't see anything wrong with it.  The hanar are reclusive and don't involve themselves with the outside galaxy much except to save some drell who then became indebted to them and do their heavy lifting.  And the Vorcha go without saying.

 

Really, the most moral and Eco-frednly species in the game is the Elchor.  Outside of them none of them are really worth bowing down to.

 

The whole point of the game was to show that the aliens may be more advanced then humans but they aren't that different beneath the skin.  This is intended to make them and the world more relate-able to the player.  That said, more options is always better I would love to troll Cerberus and their human superiority nonsense.

[gothpunkboy89]

I don't get what you are saying here. Humans trashed Earth because that was their only source of resources. Since finding the Mars Archive and achieving FTL travel. And being accepted into the wider galactic community they have more then spread out their resources gathering to uninhabited areas to minimize their effects on the colonized worlds and Earth.

 

Bringing Down the Sky DLC is literally based on an asteroid that they wanted to tow into a planet's orbit so they could harvest minerals from it. Rather then tear up the planet. The man source of power and energy are siphoned from Gas Giants rather then farmed from living planets.

 

And it isn't like the other races in the galaxy are saints either.

[jros83]

In real life, I have a hard time thinking humans deserve ANY space colonies because of how badly we're exploiting and trashing our own people and planet. We can't even be nice to each other or take care of our own planet (many scientists estimate that we are on the verge of the Sixth Great Extinction since Earth's inception over 4 billion years ago--the last great extinction was when the dinosaurs went out like a light--and mainly due to human activity), why do we deserve to move on to exploit and trash others?

 

However, because this series sets out to pat humanity on the back for being the most special wonderful awesome species ever, let's sweep all that under the rug! I noticed that both Paragon and Renegade Shepard consistently boards the "humanity is awesome and deserves this chance!" train.

 

Either Paragon Shepard is all "Humanity needs this chance! And we need to cooperate with aliens to get the recognition we deserve!" or Renegade Shepard comes across as a KKK/neo-Nazi skinhead, only who seems to see humanity as the "whites" and the aliens as the Jews and racial minorities. (Neutral Shepard just comes across as, "No comment. I'm just following orders/doing my job.")

 

Yet, a conversation with Ashley early on can reveal that Earth-born Shepard has seen firsthand how much Earth sucks. A giant metropolis has covered it (meaning all the ecosystems have been wiped out), pollution and over-population have become rampant, and the gap between the rich and poor is so wide that Earth Shepard's story of being an orphaned street urchin who lived in the slums of the metropolis and joining a criminal gang to survive early childhood is a common one.

 

Yet, Shepard never, ever, ever, ever seems to be able to say, "No, I agree with the aliens. Humanity sucks," or "No, aliens have a point. We haven't proven we can take care of our own people and planet, so why do we think we deserve to rule over more worlds and aliens?" or even, "Hey, I've been to Earth. That place is a trash heap. If we were half as interested in taking care of our own planet as we were in gaining more, maybe the aliens would take us more seriously."

 

But no, apparently. Even Earth Shepard, who's seen firsthand how badly humans treat each other and mishandle their own homeworld, seems to think humanity DESERVES yet more worlds to exploit and trash.

 

What. The. Hell.

Oh for God's sake are you for real... How does anyone here take you seriously?

[Broganisity]

Is this real life?

Or is this just fantasy?

[straykat]

edit: oops. Posted here already.

[Sah291]

Yeah my canon Shepard has the earth born background, and that was one reason I found it hard to play pure paragon or renegade. I mixed paragon and renegade responses where I could.... but I always just headcanoned earthborn Shepard was maybe a little bit like Wrex, with his/her own homeworld in rough shape, but didn't really care or have much hope for helping humanity at first, until joining the alliance and meeting Anderson, etc. There is some dialogue about how earthborn Shepard escaped a troubled youth, so I think it's implied Shepard left that life behind and was trying to reform and better him/herself, and wants better for humanity.

[The Real Pearl #2]

yes! exactly!, this why i find all the "earth is special ads" to be bull!

[Andrew Lucas]

I don't like to generalize humanity.

Also, the conception of deserving or not is very complicated here, even more in galactic scale.

Anyways, Humanity N°1!!!

[BloodyMares]

I'm on Kaidan's side with this. Humans have good and bad individuals and so do other species. Noone is special. Every species has potential. Everyone just needs to learn to coexist peacefully. You can relate to it if you imagine that every species in Mass Effect is a nation of one planet (say Earth). Although we are humanity, we still haven't learned to live in peace with each other and manage our lives effectively. So no, I don't think there's a reason for Earthborn Shepard to hate his species (Kaidan is from Earth too) but to rather compare other species to his own and acknowledge how similar they are.

I have more problem with Mass Effect 3 that they presented Earth as something special. No matter how many people hate the Council, given the opposite situation (other species asking to sacrifice Earth in order to have a chance against the Reapers). I mean look at Thessia. Asari had it hard. And everything to save Earth. Why Earth is more important than Thessia I ask?

[bunch1]

I have more problem with Mass Effect 3 that they presented Earth as something special. No matter how many people hate the Council, given the opposite situation (other species asking to sacrifice Earth in order to have a chance against the Reapers). I mean look at Thessia. Asari had it hard. And everything to save Earth. Why Earth is more important than Thessia I ask?

It's not that humanity is special, at least I don't think so, but that Earth is a base of operations for the Reapers.  With both Palaven and Thessia contested Earth seems to be both a major base for the reapers as well as a home world of a council race with still large portions of the population unharvested, unlike the batarians home world, which makes liberating it more worthwhile.  Also no one knows what the crucible will do so if your going to risk 1 or the 3 council home worlds then better Earth which has already fallen and been harvested for the past 6-12 months then Palaven or Thessia which are both sill at least partially free of reaper's, if the weapon blast the whole system at least they will be able to carry on the fight.

[iM3GTR]

Because the only person who mentions it is Administrator Anoleis, and who's going to want to agree with him?

[iM3GTR]

Earth shouldn't have been special. I think they could have them attack the Citadel first to shut down the relays, ensuring a quicker and easier victory for the Rea...oh, right. Never mind.

[MisterJB]

Sure is Tumblr in here.

[MrFob]

I don't get what you are saying here. Humans trashed Earth because that was their only source of resources. Since finding the Mars Archive and achieving FTL travel. And being accepted into the wider galactic community they have more then spread out their resources gathering to uninhabited areas to minimize their effects on the colonized worlds and Earth.

 

Bringing Down the Sky DLC is literally based on an asteroid that they wanted to tow into a planet's orbit so they could harvest minerals from it. Rather then tear up the planet. The man source of power and energy are siphoned from Gas Giants rather then farmed from living planets.

 

And it isn't like the other races in the galaxy are saints either.

 

Basically this. The main problem why we did trash our world for resources until now is because for a long time, we weren't fully aware of the large scale ramifications. The main reason why we still do it today is because as a civilization, we don't have another source of resources and we are unwilling to constrain our lifestyle.

 

In fact, I do think that in real life, in the long term, we will need to find a way for energy efficient recourse exploitation in space. Given that - for whatever reason - our economists seem to think that our economies have to keep growing endlessly, the only way to maintain this is to expand beyond the fairly isolated system of earth.

 

Whether we - as a people - deserve it or not is not really the question, especially since we don't have any sapient other species to compare ourselves to in real life. And as far as the ME universe is concerned, we are not that bad in comparison to the other species. Ultimately it will all come down to demand and necessity. Flinging an arbitrary moral code that is based on individual behavior at the issue how an entire civilization as a whole conducts itself is not helping at all IMO.

[Wulfram]

Earth may suck, but its getting better as advanced tech spreads through the planet. People on "developing" Earth are probably actually pretty happy compared to those on developed planets like Sur'kesh and Thessia - a sense of improvement in your life does more for happiness than stagnant high living standards

[BloodyMares]

Basically this. The main problem why we did trash our world for resources until now is because for a long time, we weren't fully aware of the large scale ramifications. The main reason why we still do it today is because as a civilization, we don't have another source of resources and we are unwilling to constrain our lifestyle.

 

In fact, I do think that in real life, in the long term, we will need to find a way for energy efficient recourse exploitation in space. Given that - for whatever reason - our economists seem to think that our economies have to keep growing endlessly, the only way to maintain this is to expand beyond the fairly isolated system of earth.

 

Err...sustainable energy, ecological economics, recycling and Zero Waste? Those things do exist. IMO, before heading into space it's better to evolve as a species and remove artificial borders so that we can learn how to move beyond poverty, hunger, ignorance and war. And clean up our planet finally. After THAT humanity would be ready to fully explore space. And yes, I love Star Trek.

[MrFob]

Err...sustainable energy, ecological economics, recycling and Zero Waste? Those things do exist. IMO, before heading into space it's better to evolve as a species and remove artificial borders so that we can learn how to move beyond poverty, hunger, ignorance and war. And clean up our planet finally. After THAT humanity would be ready to fully explore space. And yes, I love Star Trek.

 

It's a nice idea but I doubt we'll go down this road. Given the rate of global population growth, the fact that the large majority of earth's population still lives at a relatively low tech level (with very low energy requirements when compared to the average 1st world citizen) and the problems we already face in providing enough energy for the needs of even the small 1st world percentage through sustainable energy, I don't see how you will be able to provide the same living standards for everyone without a massive influx of resources from somewhere. And believe me, it'll be tough to convince anyone to actually lower their living standards permanently in order to provide a global sustainable ecologic economy but that's what would be necessary.

 

I really doubt we'll be able to "clean up" our planet before starting to harvest resources in space unless someone comes up with a major and completely unforeseeable invention to generate massive amounts of clean energy that doesn't require a finite fuel source.

[BloodyMares]

I really doubt we'll be able to "clean up" our planet before starting to harvest resources in space unless someone comes up with a major and completely unforeseeable invention to generate massive amounts of clean energy that doesn't require a finite fuel source.

Geothermal energy. The Earth's geothermal resources are theoretically more than adequate to supply humanity's energy needs

[MrFob]

Theoretically the sun is outputting more than enough energy to sustain our civilization millions of times over. Theoretically, the energy in water movement is more than enough to power the entire planet's energy consumption multiple times.

 

There is a difference between what's theoretically possible and the practical problems of adequately harnessing and distributing that energy.

[gothpunkboy89]

Err...sustainable energy, ecological economics, recycling and Zero Waste? Those things do exist. IMO, before heading into space it's better to evolve as a species and remove artificial borders so that we can learn how to move beyond poverty, hunger, ignorance and war. And clean up our planet finally. After THAT humanity would be ready to fully explore space. And yes, I love Star Trek.

 

But and energy still needs to come from some were. Both are major reasons for mining and such.  Add in recycling and renewable energy while gaining popularity still aren't 100% across the board. My last job corperate didn't want to add any recycling bins to break room for all the soda and drinks. After years they didn't didn't because of the cost the only thing we could recycle was cardboard boxes. So we just ended up getting a small can and people would take it home to put it in their recycle bin at home. 

[BloodyMares]

But and energy still needs to come from some were. Both are major reasons for mining and such.  Add in recycling and renewable energy while gaining popularity still aren't 100% across the board. My last job corperate didn't want to add any recycling bins to break room for all the soda and drinks. After years they didn't didn't because of the cost the only thing we could recycle was cardboard boxes. So we just ended up getting a small can and people would take it home to put it in their recycle bin at home. 

I'm not surprised. It's rare for companies to care about something other than money.