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#1
Jen-Yu

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       why can't we have a rpg game with; complex rpg stats and skills system and aesthetic,realistic combat animation together anymore!?

      does it have to be so much flashy crap in combat? why don't they let us see what the hell is going on, does it have to be mmo combat with tons of effects? do I have to swing my daggers in the air? I feel like playing 2 mbytes ios games designed for 4-6 y/o kids. flames,fires,smokes,meaningless colours,explotions, particle effects,numbers... I can't be even sure if I am hitting to enemy or not.

   Ironic part is; this is the same company who created KOTOR and DA:O..I'm having hard times understanding this.

   do you really enjoy this chaotic,flashy mmo combat?


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#2
Teddie Sage

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This is by far the most immature critique I ever read about the combat system, this month.


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#3
Jen-Yu

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  so I assume you love those flashy mmo style combats even if you have no idea whats going on in battlefield ,ok fair enough.your profile picture already explains...



#4
United Servo Academy Choir

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A worrying side effect of sitting up there on your high horse is decreased oxygen flow to the brain. It's starting to show.


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#5
cJohnOne

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I think it's legitimate to mourn the loss of the stat system and building your character with points.  Sort of kills part of the builds forum.  Since I personally like the dice based combat systems I also miss the basic hitting and missing.

 

That being said I have nothing against flashier combat and enjoyed World of Warcraft to level 60 something a number of years ago. :)

 

I really enjoyed creating characters in Pillars of Eternity and Sword Coast Legends even though I didn't get around to finishing those games.  Which I think includes some stat allocation at the start.


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#6
bEVEsthda

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This is by far the most immature critique I ever read about the combat system, this month.

 

What is so immature, do you think?

 

Do you mean to imply that there is not any "flashy" thing in combat?

And if the thing is not "crap", what word would you use?

And do you really enjoy this combat?


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#7
OldSwede

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Funny, it just occured to me that I really love playing a mage in DAI, and strangely enough not in Skyrim (which I also love) where I often go for Onehanded and healing, well maybe some conjuration, in the other hand - or Archery (I never go for Sword or Archery in any game otherwise, it surprises me becuase I usually am a crappy at that).

 

In DA2, I did like playing as a mage but also as a Dual weilder. In DAO, I usually choose Dual weilding - and then I switch between my character and Morrigan or Wynne - and I still play DAO a lot. :D

 

For me, I just can't play a Dual weilder in DAI. I do not know why, I just can't - so (since the crappy swordsman and marksman I am) the only thing I like, is playing as a mage in Inquisition. Actually, I love it.

I do not know why that is, but I love it. I still wish I could sprint (or have the DAO Haste) and I wish there were attribute points etc to spend as in DAO, but that is another question of course. ;)

 

edit: Well, I usually always love to play as a mage - a healer mage, but they took that away, which saddens me.



#8
Jesse the dragon slayer

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I didn't mind the flashiness of the battles except this one battle in the fade with that one fear demon after a patch came through it was just non stop flashing lights of green pink red blue and I'm unsure if there was more I did the battle looking away for the most part (was giving me a headache) I just hope no one who gets seizures due to lights flashing like that came across the same thing.



#9
In Exile

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What is so immature, do you think?

Do you mean to imply that there is not any "flashy" thing in combat?
And if the thing is not "crap", what word would you use?
And do you really enjoy this combat?


The flashy complaints seem misplaced, because it's not like the isometric combat wasn't designed to be flashy and visually impressive for its time.

At most it can be a complaint aimed at the animations, but once we get into verisimilitude arguments there are way more serious issues with the very idea of 3D and traditional RPGs than flashiness.

There's a real complaint here about combat mechanic and gameplay, but the aesthetic point is silly, because it's nothing more than an aesthetic point.
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#10
Il Divo

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       why can't we have a rpg game with; complex rpg stats and skills system and aesthetic,realistic combat animation together anymore!?

      does it have to be so much flashy crap in combat? why don't they let us see what the hell is going on, does it have to be mmo combat with tons of effects? do I have to swing my daggers in the air? I feel like playing 2 mbytes ios games designed for 4-6 y/o kids. flames,fires,smokes,meaningless colours,explotions, particle effects,numbers... I can't be even sure if I am hitting to enemy or not.

   Ironic part is; this is the same company who created KOTOR and DA:O..I'm having hard times understanding this.

   do you really enjoy this chaotic,flashy mmo combat?

 

Yeah, so am I. As games go, I wouldn't call KotOR's combat animations "realistic" by any remote stretch. They were also the same group that made Jade Empire.



#11
In Exile

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Yeah, so am I. As games go, I wouldn't call KotOR's combat animations "realistic" by any remote stretch. They were also the same group that made Jade Empire.


KoTOR was also actively trashed as an oversimplification and a sell out to the consoles, so I guess the parallel is spot on but not for the reason intended?
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#12
bEVEsthda

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The flashy complaints seem misplaced, because it's not like the isometric combat wasn't designed to be flashy and visually impressive for its time.

At most it can be a complaint aimed at the animations, but once we get into verisimilitude arguments there are way more serious issues with the very idea of 3D and traditional RPGs than flashiness.

There's a real complaint here about combat mechanic and gameplay, but the aesthetic point is silly, because it's nothing more than an aesthetic point.

 

Well, language is not something explicitly exactly defined and not something to exactly define. Language always also carries information about how it is to be interpreted, alongside the message/idea. Language always relies on its own context. Language is a tool to transfer an idea, that is inside our head, to other people's heads. If the involved persons are well tuned to each other this works quite well. And if a group of people use language between themselves they will eventually become well tuned, better and better.

 

Personally, I seem to understand very well what Jen-Yu is trying to say. I think he puts it quite succinctly. "Flashy crap". And I agree. The DA:I combat is some of the worst gaming content I've ever experienced. And the aesthetic point is not silly. Aesthetics is not something that floats around irrelevantly in some vacuum. It totally represents what the developers were thinking they had to have combat convey. (I strongly suspect that it's even mostly that, i.e. the combat is primarily built to accommodate the aesthetics, rather than the other way around.)

 

I think it works well for EA's marketing people though. This fiasco is probably what they have worked hard for ever since they made the Sacred Ashes video for DA:O, (though, of course, the action is still "slow and shuffling" in that video, compared to DA2 & DA:I). That's my impression, that the combat has been created more to satisfy what has been told is required, than any personal, genuine understanding of why it would be interesting to play.

 

As for these comments regarding comparisons what other games have done, they are really what is truly irrelevant in this discussion, rather than any kind of appropriate argument. I do certainly agree that combat in, for instance, BG2, was "flashy", if that was your meaning? But "flashy" in a different context. In different art works, in a different atmosphere, in different circumstances as to what the game feeds back and what takes place in the player's head. The exact meaning of the word "flashy" relies on the context. It doesn't have to imply that it's insulting or offensive.

 

But is it "constructive criticism"? Well, yes, I think it is, sort of. It expresses a discord, between what the gamer wants DA to be, in terms of mood and atmosphere, and the zip-zap-Kaboom-hotrod-samurai-cartoonish, "fun", "flashy crap" that EA wants. Since opinions vary greatly, it might be hard to understand or make anything of. I respect that. But I genuinely suspect EA marketing is very, very wrong about this. The new direction of DA2 and DA:I is obsolete. The future is a more serious tone, and intuitively understood as more "realistic", like for instance The Witcher (and DA:O, to some extent) represents. That's what I believe.

 

I do not want to say that the flashiness is what is wrong with DA:I combat, however. Rather, I'm suggesting it's the cause.

 

As to what is wrong with DA:I combat mechanics, I can express my own opinion: There is nothing interesting going on. Normally, my purpose of combat in an RPG would be to represent a threat, obstacle, challenge, dread, that the character must find means to overcome. Beyond that I typically do not have any interest in the combat. It's not like when I play a FPS, strategy games or a game like UFO: Enemy Unknown (the original, ofc), where it's very much the main reason for playing the game.

In DA:I it's not working. Theoretically, I could have played it micro-managing Tac-Cam style. But it's not working out, because when you can only take a few meters walk and then all the enemies will have been respawned yet again, it gets tiring and pointless to very silly proportions. It wouldn't have worked so well anyway, since the PC UI was so painful. My solution eventually evolved into playing ranged character (archer rogue). And that in turn eventually evolved into "F* this!-lower difficulty-and just hold down <R>" and yawn until the screen has stopped flashing. So somewhere there the combat ceased to have any purpose for me. It's no longer any dread or obstacle.

 

I do appreciate very much though, that the combat can be played 'easy & hold down <R>'. Otherwise DA:I would be pretty intolerable for me. As it is I can enjoy the game for so many other reasons. I focus on that.



#13
BroBear Berbil

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I don't find the effects to be that bad but I've been playing GW2 pretty much non-stop for the last 4 months, so admittedly I have a high tolerance. For the gameplay I don't think it really matters all that much, since this game isn't designed around responding to enemy tells so much.

 

That's not to say I wouldn't like to see the over-the-top action be toned way the **** down though. I wasn't a fan of it when they went that route in DA2. Personally, I enjoy a slower, weightier combat style.

 

There's such a huge disconnect between what characters are capable of in the DA games vs the DA books as well. I actually thought about this recently after encountering Michel fighting red templars. Michel, soldiers, and pretty much every friendly NPC move and fight with some basis in reality (like they do in the books) while DA2 and DAI groups and enemies are like anime characters for the sake of gameplay.