101 réponses à ce sujet

[nightscrawl]

I don't even play elves, but you know... not every person, or Dalish elf, feels the same way about all that stuff, just as not every human feels the same way about Andraste, the Maker, and the Chantry.

[sonoko]

My mage Lavellan never drinks rom the Well. Freedom vs knowledge - it's an easy choice. Knowledge can be acquired by other means, history is important, but still less important than future. And being robbed of your own free will, becoming someone's puppet - that's fate worse than death.

[In Exile]

It has nothing to do with the fact that Morrigan lacks a pair of pointed ears. It has more to do with her not being part of their society.

 

That's still basically racist, because "to be part of their society", you have to be an elf. Merrill points that out expressly when talking about Feynriel in DA2. 

[Suledin]

I let my human mage drink from the Well.

Why? Because it was useful in Trespasser. Also if the Inquisitor shows up in the next game. The Well could be useful too. Could provide us information how to stop Solas if we ask nicely. It's not Mythal that is speaking, but all the followers that have passed their knowledge through the Well. Who knows...Maybe Mythal turns against Solas knowing he's about to undo the Veil. Evanuris have killed her. Perhaps she doesn't want them released. Although she did mention that she wants revenge and it'll shake the heavens. We still have no idea what Solas is planning to do with them (Evanuris). And what if...Morrigan is now Mythal. Flemeth is really dead now. 

[caradoc2000]

My Dalish rode the dracolisk there, so she couldn't drink ('cos if you drive, you don't drink).

[German Soldier]

That's still basically racist, because "to be part of their society", you have to be an elf. Merrill points that out expressly when talking about Feynriel in DA2. 

It's not racism,elves are clearly a different race they are not equal to humans so it is possible that the well of sorrow is better handled into the hands of an elf in the long term due to blood properties.

Afterall elves see the crossroads in a different way and maybe they can learn from the well in a different way.

Plus so far the well of sorrow proved only to be an advantage,Flemeth is dead and the knowledge was used by the Inquisitor to the benefit of all to all the Inquisition,while Morrigan as usual is keeping everything for herself.

[Dabrikishaw]

Roleplaying wise, I'd have to play a Dalish Elf that was losing faith in the Dalish culture, trusted Morrigan with the knowledge, understood that most of what he was told growing up was a lie after his experiences at Mythal's Temple, and didn't revere The Creators.

[In Exile]

It's not racism,elves are clearly a different race they are not equal to humans so it is possible that the well of sorrow is better handled into the hands of an elf in the long term due to blood properties.
Afterall elves see the crossroads in a different way and maybe they can learn from the well in a different way.
Plus so far the well of sorrow proved only to be an advantage,Flemeth is dead and the knowledge was used by the Inquisitor to the benefit of all to all the Inquisition,while Morrigan as usual is keeping everything for herself.

That's still racist. That's exactly what IRL racists say about different races. We don't know how modern elves differ from pre-Veil elves. What we have are, again, racist things that Solas says (who didn't even consider post-Veil beings people at first!) and Abelas.

It stops being racist when there's actually proof it needs to be an elf. Since in-game Morrigan can use the Well a lot better, and since Mythal's soul seems to do just fine in a human meatsuit, I'm not sure this is true.

[Qun00]

That's still basically racist, because "to be part of their society", you have to be an elf. Merrill points that out expressly when talking about Feynriel in DA2.

Merril isn't a good example. She refers to him as "this half-breed".

And well, what part of elven culture belongs to the elves is too hard to grasp? Likewise, the Tome of Koslun should be with the Qunari and no one else. It is their right and that should be respected.

Pointing out that something is mine isn't racist. It's just a fact. No need to be discussing Thedosian social justice.

[German Soldier]

That's still racist. That's exactly what IRL racists say about different races. We don't know how modern elves differ from pre-Veil elves. What we have are, again, racist things that Solas says (who didn't even consider post-Veil beings people at first!) and Abelas.

It stops being racist when there's actually proof it needs to be an elf. Since in-game Morrigan can use the Well a lot better, and since Mythal's soul seems to do just fine in a human meatsuit, I'm not sure this is true.

IRL logic doesn't apply since we have only one intelligent race, humans.

In Thedas elves are indeed another race so is not correct to speak about "racism" regarding artifacts more close to a specific race,if titans chose dwarves is not because they are racist but because dwarves are better suited.

Also so far i didn't see that Morrigan is capable to use the well better,all that she did was improve her shape shifting ability and yet got miserably defeated by the other dragon,if it was not for the Inquisitor the red lyrium dragon would have eaten her.

The inquisitor is not a shapeshifter at core this is why cannot become an high dragon but nothing is preventing the Inquisitor to learn this in the future,the base of shapeshifting.

[Solas]

I mean it is a valid reason, but it is a bit ... Metagamie.  
 
Your Inquisitor at the time of the Well of Sorrows decision had no way of knowing their gods were false, let alone that the price itself would be revealed so soon after the choice was made (with Flemeth revealing herself as Mythal).  Presumably a Dalish Inquisitor could simply not be that religious or somehow decided to become Andrastian (for some reason), but the information that Evanuris were nothing but powerful mages wasn't known until two years later during the events of Trespasser.
 
Also, weird note but Solas actually doesn't condemn the Inquisitor drinking from the well until after they actually drink from it.  He doesn't want Morrigan to drink (because she seems to want it WAAAAAAAAAAAY too much and I agree), he doesn't want to drink it himself, but he does admit that someone SHOULD drink from it.  By process of elimination that leaves me Solas, your grievances after the fact mean little. 

Iirc it was said Solas was meant to say something but there was a fubar.

The cruelty and tyranny of the gods is written on the walls of the temple. That helped dissuade my PC.

[nightscrawl]

It's not racism,elves are clearly a different race they are not equal to humans so it is possible that the well of sorrow is better handled into the hands of an elf in the long term due to blood properties.
Afterall elves see the crossroads in a different way and maybe they can learn from the well in a different way.
Plus so far the well of sorrow proved only to be an advantage,Flemeth is dead and the knowledge was used by the Inquisitor to the benefit of all to all the Inquisition,while Morrigan as usual is keeping everything for herself.

That's still racist. That's exactly what IRL racists say about different races. We don't know how modern elves differ from pre-Veil elves. What we have are, again, racist things that Solas says (who didn't even consider post-Veil beings people at first!) and Abelas.

It stops being racist when there's actually proof it needs to be an elf. Since in-game Morrigan can use the Well a lot better, and since Mythal's soul seems to do just fine in a human meatsuit, I'm not sure this is true.

 
I don't see why any of this matters, nor does the fact of its being useful in Trespasser (as someone mentioned earlier). The Inquisitor doesn't know any of that stuff when they have to make the decision in the game. ALL the Inquisitor has to go on is what Morrigan and Abelas tell them, plus the optional information that is revealed IF they have the Arcane Knowledge perk (certainly not a guarantee for all players). And Solas sure isn't any help during that scene either. If you ask him about drinking himself, he curtly says, "No," and tells you to not ask again, offering no other explanation. HE doesn't want to drink, yet also doesn't think Morrigan should drink, but that the Well's power should be used. That's it.

 

People are going to want to argue about this, particularly in the wake of the Trespasser reveals, or even with the post-credit scene of the main game. But again, the Inquisitor doesn't know any of this when they make the decision, so any arguments, either for or against, using meta knowledge are invalid, IMO. However, I will say that, in light of new knowledge, framing it in the form of whether your Inquisitor made the right decision at the time is perfectly reasonable.

 

But even so, some people are content with their decision, even considering the new knowledge. It's all about RP and a given Inquisitor's motivations, regardless of race or origin.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

Seems to me that the name "Well of Sorrows" is enough. A dalish has had more than enough sorrow, he's got the stress and poressure of being Inquisior and, simply does not need more sorrow nor the stress more sorrow would bring. let the human be sad and misserable for a change.

[CardButton]

Iirc it was said Solas was meant to say something but there was a fubar.

The cruelty and tyranny of the gods is written on the walls of the temple. That helped dissuade my PC.

LOL to be fair though "What Pride Had Wrought" was all sorts of buggy in regards to Dalish dialogue.  "Who is Mythal"?!  Really Bioware, my Inquisitor has Mythal magically stapled to her god damned face!  

 

Then there is Solas yelling at you afterwords about "I TOLD YOU NOT TO DRINK" ... no he really didn't.  In fact by his dialogue, by process of elimination the Inquisitor would be the only one who could drink, since someone should.  Then there is Morrigan on the next quest making snarky comments about how the Inquisitor can only hear "whispers", but during the choice itself if you use the right options (Arcane Perk and The Inquisition Still Needs You options) you can actually talk her down and agree to whatever decision the Inquisitor makes. 

 

That Quest is all sorts of problematic for Dalish PCs.  My thoughts are, if you are a Mage or you are Dalish ... you have every bit as much "right" (More if you are in fact a Dalish Mage IMO) to drink from the Well as Morrigan.  You just can choose or abstain to use that right.

[Solas]

That's what I meant- he says after that he told you not to. Iirc he was supposed to but they dungoofed.
Same as how they dungoofed with the well-aspect's ears. I've seen them say that was an oversight too.

[AEve]

I let my human mage drink from the Well.

Why? Because it was useful in Trespasser. Also if the Inquisitor shows up in the next game. The Well could be useful too. Could provide us information how to stop Solas if we ask nicely. It's not Mythal that is speaking, but all the followers that have passed their knowledge through the Well. Who knows...Maybe Mythal turns against Solas knowing he's about to undo the Veil. Evanuris have killed her. Perhaps she doesn't want them released. Although she did mention that she wants revenge and it'll shake the heavens. We still have no idea what Solas is planning to do with them (Evanuris). And what if...Morrigan is now Mythal. Flemeth is really dead now. 

 

Same for my human rogue.

 

Indeed, it was useful in Trespasser, (Speaking of which, can someone tell me what happened when you're first speaking to the Elves in the crossroads and don't have "the drink from the well" option ?).

I hope we'll see some repercussions of it while Solas hunting for DA4.

 

Plus, I try not to meta-game at all. From my inquisitor point of view, Morrigan was kinda suspicious since they first met at the winter palace, and during What Pride had Wrought, she "lies" to you a few times. And she looks power hungry.

 

Of course as the player you can ask yourself about the fact that a cultural ancient elven empire is better in the hand of an elf, no matter what.

But as the character I was playing caught in the action (who was human so the Well it would be between human anyway)  we only knew the source was a great deal of tricky power, therefore which couldn't fall into the wrongs hand. That's why my inquisitor take it.

 

In the end, @Nightscrawl is right :

 

 But even so, some people are content with their decision, even considering the new knowledge. It's all about RP and a given Inquisitor's motivations, regardless of race or origin.

[nightscrawl]

Same for my human rogue.
 
Indeed, it was useful in Trespasser, (Speaking of which, can someone tell me what happened when you're first speaking to the Elves in the crossroads and don't have "the drink from the well" option ?).

As I recall the elf spirit things just attack you on sight. You really skip a ton of annoying fighting if you've drunk from the Well.

[ZhengAn]

I usually go metagame, but from character's perspective, besides all that unknown consequences and risks, others reasons go to Abelas and Solas.

The way Abelas treated the elven inquisitor as shemlen, and those little comments Solas gave about those elven god, all the lore about ancient elevs surely has shaked the quizzy's view towards her religion and the gods a bit.

But that is the reason I can think of why quizzy dont want to drink, but not why quizzy would let morrigan drink.

Morrigan has better understanding and use of these ancient stuff is a weak argument, imo, but I guess that depends on how the inquisitor view morrigan. At least in my case, if I m putting myself into an elven inquisitor, I would drink despite the doubt I have on my religion. Even If the doubt has made me unwilling to drink. Because I don't trust morrigan.

[Dai Grepher]

Scary.

 

You like leading the Inquisition, and being bound to another's will puts your position and the organization in jeopardy.

 

Mythal is not your patron god.

 

You think you can get the same information from Morrigan, especially if you plan on confining her later.

[ZhengAn]

Scary.

You like leading the Inquisition, and being bound to another's will puts your position and the organization in jeopardy.

Mythal is not your patron god.

You think you can get the same information from Morrigan, especially if you plan on confining her later.

kind of reminds me of the envy demon in champion of just.

A quizzy that drank from the well and did not disband in trespasser. If mythal is going to use inquisitor in da4, i wonder if these two choices together would bring different consequences.

[DuskWanderer]

The reason? You answered it yourself, it is dangerous. You have no idea what will happen. You might want to take the risk, but you might not want to. As it stands, you have no choice other than you or her. 

[GoldenGail3]

Ppppft, my Male Mage Lavellen did. Becuase he loves knowledge and power (thought he killed the elven sentienels).

My Female Lavellen let Morrigan take the well. She didn't want any more power (being a Solas romance with a hatred for the Chantry).

[Gervaise]

I have had three different Dalish Inquisitors, each has responded in a different way.

My mage girl, in a romance with Solas, was torn because she tended to respect Solas' opinion and it made her think when he didn't want to drink.   However, he also seemed very against Morrigan and she had been taught to jump at any chance to regain their lost lore, so she drank from the Well, only for Solas to maintain he'd told her not to.   She wasn't too worried when she met Flemeth/Mythal since she was familiar with the stories about her and Mythal was a protector of the People.  She was rather pleased to discover she had totally died and Flemeth seemed to approve of her.    Things went down hill after that; Solas broke up with her and then came Trespasser. 

 

My rogue male elf was also torn but he gave more weight to the opinions of the other members of his party in addition to Solas, Cassandra and Dorian, particularly Dorian since he was romancing him.   So Solas refused to drink, Dorian refused to drink, Cassandra didn't want him to drink, he figured our the geas part and Dorian didn't want to lose him to the Well.    So whilst he wanted to recover his culture he was also very mindful of the Dalish mantra "We are the last of the elvhenan and never again shall we submit."    It is one thing seeking out old bits of lore, it is quite another surrendering your self determination in order to acquire it.   Plus if anything did happen to him as a result, then everyone was screwed, so he let Morrigan do the deed.   He has no regrets.

 

My third male mage elf in romance with Cassandra was something of a rebel anyway.   He suspected the reason the Keeper sent him on the mission was that he was becoming a bit of an embarrassment in the clan.    So far as he was concerned, the gods were shut away and couldn't answer their prayers, so why keep worshipping them?   He embraced the whole Herald of Andraste thing simply because the Maker hadn't shown himself to be overly concerned with the world either; so he wasn't expecting thunderbolts to hit him for claiming belief where in fact he had none.    So whilst he wasn't unduly concerned about the geas, since Abelas claimed Mythal was dead, everyone else seemed to be and he wasn't about to surrender his autonomy should the binding prove real.    He let Morrigan drink and was amused by the irony when she found out exactly who was going to be pulling the leash from now on.  

 

I always think the daftest part is when Solas asks you what you are going to do with the knowledge of the Well when you didn't drink, since clearly it doesn't matter what you want to do with it, Morrigan as control over access to the knowledge, so ask her.    As it turns out, she leaves once Cory is gone and in at least one case I knew this since she had made no secret of the fact that she and Kieran were going to join the Hero of Ferelden.

[leaguer of one]

Fair enough, but your character hadn't heard about any of this at that point in time.

If you romance Solas you do.

[leaguer of one]

Fair enough, but your character hadn't heard about any of this at that point in time.

If you romance Solas you do.

I mean it is a valid reason, but it is a bit ... Metagamie.  
 
Your Inquisitor at the time of the Well of Sorrows decision had no way of knowing their gods were false, let alone that the price itself would be revealed so soon after the choice was made (with Flemeth revealing herself as Mythal).  Presumably a Dalish Inquisitor could simply not be that religious or somehow decided to become Andrastian (for some reason), but the information that Evanuris were nothing but powerful mages wasn't known until two years later during the events of Trespasser.
 
Also, weird note but Solas actually doesn't condemn the Inquisitor drinking from the well until after they actually drink from it.  He doesn't want Morrigan to drink (because she seems to want it WAAAAAAAAAAAY too much and I agree), he doesn't want to drink it himself, but he does admit that someone SHOULD drink from it.  By process of elimination that leaves me Solas, your grievances after the fact mean little. 

I forgot. Does Sola's that the tattoos be for or after the well of sparrows if you romanced him?